In every moment of experience, we are a sentient being. In every moment of experience, we have diluted karmic consciousness, diluted karma. In every experience, that ordinary, diluted, sentient karma is a stimulus. A stimulus to a Buddha response. And in every moment of experience, there is a Buddha response.

[01:00]

And the Buddha response is not the least bit different from the sentient being's stimulus or call to relate to what is not the slightest bit different. Last week, for example, some people expressed some suffering, some hardship. And at that moment of experience, that human expression of suffering was stimulating a Buddha response.

[02:22]

That human expression of pain was not the least bit different from the response of awakening. So, when we express our suffering, when our suffering is being expressed, not the slightest thing needs to be added in order to realize our original nature, in order to realize the Buddha response. The Buddha response uses our human expression.

[03:41]

And the Buddha is nothing in addition, not the least bit in addition to our human expression. And our human expression often involves that we think that the Buddha's response is something other than what we're doing right now. But our original nature is not like that. Welcome, John. Welcome, John. Welcome, John.

[04:58]

Anywhere other than or beyond this moment of experience, which includes, again, the Buddha response and our human stimulation of the Buddha. So, we have hardship sometimes, and we have joy sometimes. And whether we have joy or hardship, it may be difficult for us to not look somewhere else

[06:00]

for the Buddha way. So, we have difficulty, and then we have another difficulty, which is the difficulty of being mindful of not looking someplace other than our difficulty in order to liberate the world of suffering. The Buddha does not look somewhere else from our suffering. The Buddha uses our suffering and our joy. And if we are looking somewhere else for peace and freedom from this human karmic consciousness, if we're doing that, we don't have to look for anywhere else than us looking somewhere else.

[07:07]

If we're looking somewhere else, we can just look somewhere else and not look for somewhere else from looking for somewhere else. We sentient beings are Buddhas as sentient beings. Buddhas are, of course, Buddhas. Excuse me. Buddhas are sentient beings as Buddhas. We are Buddhas as sentient beings. Buddhas are sentient beings as Buddhas. Buddhas use suffering to realize Buddhahood.

[08:14]

We use Buddha to realize suffering. And Buddhas do not try to get us not to be the sentient being that we are. So when we use Buddha to suffer, Buddhas use us to realize Buddhahood. And we who are using Buddha in order to suffer and have joy are not the slightest bit different from Buddha. And there is no Buddha other than our mind right now. And it is necessary for somebody to say what I'm saying

[09:18]

so I'm saying it. And it is necessary for somebody to realize this, to awaken to this original nature, even though we are never the slightest bit separate from it and can never be. However, we can imagine that we are separate and act on that imagination and be totally unsuccessful at being the slightest bit different from Buddha. We cannot successfully separate from awakening. It is impossible. But we can easily think that. And that thought, there's no Buddha other than the thought

[10:24]

that we're separate from Buddha. Also, if you think you're not separate, that's another human thought which stimulates the Buddha to respond to the thought that we aren't separate. That's another human thought. Our original nature is an activity. It is the activity of Buddhas. The activities of Buddhas is our original nature. And this is an activity which does not add anything

[11:27]

to what the present experience is. That's an activity called stillness. Called faith in original nature. Faith in original nature is the faith in not adding anything. And this activity of not adding or subtracting, this activity is prior to knowledge and perception. This activity is deportment beyond hearing and seeing. Right now, there is hearing and seeing, it seems. And pervading this hearing and seeing

[12:33]

is an activity beyond this hearing and seeing. And in this hearing and seeing, there is a necessity to say and hear something like what I'm saying now. In order to realize what's beyond the activity, which is beyond hearing and seeing, somebody has to say something and somebody has to hear about this, which is, as you may notice, happening now. So we are enacting this activity right now. We are embodying this activity right now. We are celebrating this activity. And this embodiment, and this celebration,

[13:38]

and this enactment are activities. And it pervades before knowledge and perception, and it also pervades at the very time of knowledge and perception. . Two people have come.

[14:48]

Welcome Marjorie. Welcome Gail. Also, I'd like to acknowledge that quite a few people sent me a message that they would not be here tonight. So for those of you who are here tonight, I want you to know that many of the people who are not here sent a message that they weren't and that they were sorry. And I pray that you follow their example. If you're not here, let us know, please.

[15:48]

That's kind of like, If you're not awakened, please let us know. So that the awakening response can be there to meet your expression of unawakening. And realize that unawakening and awakening are not the slightest bit different. Even though awakening is awakening, and not awakening is not awakening. Awakening completely pervades non-awakening, but somebody has to say non-awakening. Like that story which many of you have heard

[17:02]

about the Chinese teacher named, what's his name? Bao Che. Bao Che. Bao Che was in China one time, and he was fanning himself. And a monk came up to him and said, teacher, the nature of wind, our original nature, is permanent and all-pervading. There's no place it does not reach. So why do you fan yourself? The teacher said, you may understand that the nature of wind is permanent, but you do not understand the nature of it reaching everywhere. And the monk said,

[18:07]

what is the nature of it reaching everywhere? And Bao Che fanned himself. Our original nature is perfect and all-pervading. What need is there for me to mention that to you? The meaning of it being all-pervading is that I'm mentioning it to you. It's taken over my speech. It's pervaded everything I say. I can never stop talking about it. It's nothing other than what I'm saying to you. And it's nothing other than what you say to me. And it's nothing other than you thinking that it is something different from what you say to me, or what you're feeling. But your job, and my job,

[19:18]

is to say what we say and feel what we feel, and to fan when we're fanning. And to ask questions when we ask questions. So you are invited, everyone's invited, to fan the all-pervading wind of our original nature. You're invited to express it, to announce it, to enact it. Good evening, Rev, and the Great Assembly.

[20:20]

Even though there's not the slightest discrepancy, do we actually, might we recognize them because they have different characteristics, as in my words and your words will be expressed in our own unique measure? If you have a moment, could you ask your question again? Or say what you said again? I have a moment. I said, I think I said, even though there's not the slightest discrepancy or difference, might they not have different characteristics that we would recognize them by, as in my words and how they sound,

[21:23]

and maybe what you respond will have their own unique... Did you say, might that be the case? Yeah, I'm saying they're not the slightest bit different, but they also have different characteristics. Well, all the different characteristics are not the slightest bit different. From the original nature. For example, when you're fanning, the downstroke is not the slightest bit different from the wind reaching everywhere. And the upstroke is not the slightest bit different from the ever all-pervading wind. But the upstroke is different from the downstroke. And Sonja is different from Reb. But Sonja, it pervades Sonja who's different from Reb

[22:24]

as much as Reb who's different from Sonja. Therefore, they're the same and unique at the same time? No, no, we're not the same. We're the sources. Excuse me. Yeah, we are the same. Yeah. And we're the same as Buddhas. And uniquely... And we are different. We are different. And didn't I say last week that our original nature is the harmony of difference and unity? You did. We are difference, we are unity, and we are the harmony of difference and unity. All three of those are what we really are. So we're different, we're united, and the way we're united and the way we're different is in harmony. Thank you for repeating.

[23:26]

The difference may be kind of uncomfortable. Thank you for repeating that. You're welcome. Hi, Reb. Hey, Peter. Hi. First of all, I wanted to thank you so much, just right off the bat, even from how you declared that you were welcoming us on behalf of all of us, because that really gave a different flavor to it, and it made me aware that everyone you were welcoming, you were welcoming on behalf of me, and it also made me aware, when you welcomed me, that it was on behalf of everyone. Anyway, in both regards, it felt different than I've experienced before, so thanks for that. You're welcome. As for my question,

[24:26]

it's somewhat similar to Sonia's, and so you might have given enough of an answer, but I'd like some more maybe. So when you say at the beginning there's no discrepancy between our mind and all sentient beings and all Buddhas, so my question also has to do with that word discrepancy and sort of how you're using it. I was a naughty student, and after you said that, I looked up on the online dictionary, real quick, discrepancy. There's like 23 meanings, and they all have sort of different feelings that might even be interesting at some point for you to go, yeah, it's that, it's that. It's no discrepancy, no that. But even before that or other than that, I just would like to hear you say a little bit more about what sense of discrepancy you're using there when you're saying there's no discrepancy. So there are thoughts of discrepancy,

[25:48]

like we can think of a discrepancy, but there's no discrepancy between my thought of a discrepancy and you. You're completely included in my thoughts of discrepancy. So my discrepancy, it has no function. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, it's the sense of complete inclusion. Complete mutual inclusion. There really isn't a discrepancy, but we can think there is, and we can suffer if we believe that. But even if I have a thought that I'm separate from you, and I believe it, and I'm suffering because of my belief in that, I'm still not the slightest bit separate from you. Or from the Buddhas, they're not separate from me thinking that I'm separate.

[26:53]

But still, thinking I'm separate does have consequences. Thinking and believing that I'm separate still has consequences, which is my suffering. But Buddha is not the least bit separate from my suffering due to my believing that I'm separate from you and Buddhas. But even if I am thinking I'm separate from you and believing it and suffering, if I'm interested in Buddha, I know where to look for Buddha, which is not the least bit separate from me being here, suffering in the sewer of believing in discrepancy. Buddha is right here with me. And I don't have to stop thinking that way, or believing that, or suffering. And Buddha is right here with me in that mess. Yeah.

[28:00]

Because Buddha, there's nothing to Buddha. Because Buddha is nothing in addition to you and me. Nothing to be added, right. So you can't get away from Buddha. It calls to mind, I know it's a Sufi saying, I think it might be Rumi, that even if you try to flee from Allah, it's on the wings of Allah that you flee. Right. Yeah, right. Okay, thank you, Rab. Or it's in the eyeballs of Allah that you flee. Thank you, Peter. And next is... Hi, Rab. Hello, Angela. Hello, Great Assembly. I'm offering an intimacy with feeling separate.

[29:06]

And it feels uncomfortable. I'm feeling a lot of energy, tension, friction, in my body. And when you were talking about, I think you were using the word all-pervading? Yeah, the original nature is all-pervading. It's pervading the situation which you're reporting. Yes. And you're reporting is inviting it to pervade. Thank you for that. It does seem like my experiences, or what came to mind when you were talking about all-pervading,

[30:15]

that it's seemingly something within me that tenses, that it doesn't allow this all-pervading. Are you saying that there's something that tenses? Is there something that tenses in addition to the tensing? No, but sometimes I confess that I think it is sometimes. And is thinking that any different from thinking that? No. No. But you didn't say there's something that's thinking that. You just said, I'm thinking that. Or maybe you say, are you any different from thinking that? Are you something in addition to thinking that?

[31:17]

No. No. Me neither. Thank you. You're welcome. Justin. Welcome, Justin. You're muted, Justin. There we go. I feel like I'm constantly asking why. Like with all of the teachings. And a lot of times it doesn't feel productive. Like I'll hear a teaching all about why. And it doesn't feel productive.

[32:20]

It's not productive, no. But it's an opportunity for Buddha production. All those whys are stimulants, stimulating Buddha. But they themselves are not productive. They have no life by themselves. They're just stimuli to great compassion. And great compassion, every one of those whys perfectly fits with great compassion. Why? Why? Why? Great compassion is there in every one of those things. And great compassion doesn't try to get you to stop or to get the process of why, why, why. Great compassion is not trying to stop that. It's fitting perfectly with why, why, why.

[33:22]

Constant why, constant compassion. Thank you. You're welcome. Now you have it. I've been reflecting the last few weeks. I think since our second class on that poignant reading that Jim Herr shared with us about the woman who was offering aid and assistance to those who were taken to the concentration camps and then she herself to the concentration camp and then to the gas chambers. And I've been reflecting on that as an expression of this intimate communion you've been talking about.

[34:28]

And a thought has come to mind. I'm going to introduce it. It's something you haven't spoken of. But the thought of impermanence has arisen for me in this story. Somebody looking at death of others, looking at their own imminent death. And from what Jim said or read, doing it with a sense of freedom and joy. And it struck me that what you talk about being still, being still with these karmic conditions of just as they are painful, impermanent, imperfect. And then as this woman expressed having gratitude for the impermanence and the freedom it allows us in that sense. And that there's something in the essence of this karmic nature or entire nature or Buddha nature that this impermanence lies in. And it seems accepting that to me and in a sense embracing it with compassion and gratitude

[35:34]

is a sense of freedom. And I'm not sure if I'm getting karmically caught up in that idea as some kind of means of dealing with my own pain. But I felt that story was very moving that way. And I'm intrigued how that woman entered that place and did it with that joy. So I just share that. Yeah. And you said a sense of freedom. But you could take the word sense away. You could have the word sense or not, but it is freedom. So, when we have impermanence and to not look someplace else is freedom and it's peace and it's joy and it's Buddha. And Buddha was already there with the all impermanent things.

[36:37]

Buddha was always present with it. But when we stop looking for someplace else then all the qualities of Buddha, gratitude, etc., are realized. But they were already there. And when you stop looking for someplace other than the impermanent and the painful you discover what was already there. Gratitude. It's all the qualities that we wish for in life for all beings. When you were talking tonight about the wind, that story of the wind, it struck me that this stillness of not adding anything in the intimate communion, when we fan ourselves, it's compassion and gratitude. Yeah, and it's fanning without trying to get anything.

[37:43]

Right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello, rep. And hello, assembly. Assembly. I would like to have a question and also a request. So my request is, I would like to, my request is asking from you and this assembly to be the strength and be the discrepancy.

[38:51]

And no separation that I am that. I am separate. I am that space. I am that gap. I am that gap. And not move from the gap. And my move may be like I want to go to Buddha or I want to remember Buddha nature or nature or beauty or stillness. I lack being where it is uncomfortable. So my asking is to be comfortable in the discomfort.

[39:54]

So that is what I really, really am calling for. And then comes my question. My question is that you refer to remembering Buddha nature. I'm questioning is Buddha nature. Something to remember. No. So why do you say remember? Because I think it's necessary to remember in order to realize our original nature, which is not something. I question that. I don't, I question it because... Anyway, I'm just, you'd ask me why I said it, right? Yeah, but I'm questioning, yes, yes.

[40:59]

I told you why I said it. And you're welcome to question it. But first of all, did you hear that I gave you what you asked for? I did not. It didn't go in. So you were saying, is it a thing? And it's not a thing. Yes. We need to remember this thing that's not a thing. Otherwise, we miss the opportunity to realize that this no thing is there in all the things. Okay, so are you saying to remember it's not a thing will make us realize it's not a thing? No, exactly. That's not what you're saying. Okay.

[42:01]

I'm not saying remember that it's not a thing. I'm saying remember something that's not a thing. You don't have to say the part about not a thing unless Homa asks you, is it a thing? And if she asks you if it's a thing, then you say, no, it's not. But you don't have to remember it's a thing until somebody asks you if it is. But it isn't a thing. And you can remember things that aren't a thing. Now, what people usually remember is what they think is a thing. That's what they usually remember. So I would like you to remember something that isn't a thing. To go along with all the other things that you're remembering. Yeah, so I can see that we remember what is a thing. That's normal. That's what memory is. That's our normal thing. Now I'm saying remember something that turns out not to be a thing.

[43:05]

One thought just came is that this goes forever. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's this everlasting space. It's before knowledge and perception. Let's see. So I found myself wondering, what do you do when you are suffering and you can't find your way? When you, Reb, are dissatisfied, not understanding what practice is, what do you do?

[44:47]

Well, I don't have that situation. I have the situation of suffering, but I don't have the situation of not knowing how to practice. I do know how to practice. Which is to be with my suffering. So I remember the teaching, and then I'm not saying I can do the practice, but I can remember the teaching of what the practice is, and sometimes I can honor that teaching so fully that I actually enter the practice with the suffering. So today, all day long, I was suffering. Pretty much all day long, I was suffering. I was depressed. I felt terrible. Really?

[45:54]

Yeah. It makes me want to cry when you say that. I appreciate hearing that. Go right ahead. And I was making a big effort to be, in my case here, to be in my suffering. That's the practice I trust, is to be with it. Not wallowing in it. Not trying to get rid of it. Not trying to get away from it. But seeing it as not the slightest bit different from you and from Buddha. I was remembering the teaching and practicing in that way. So if I remember the teaching, I'm not looking for another kind of suffering other than Tuesday suffering, leading up to the class about how to live with suffering.

[47:03]

And I didn't ask for the suffering, which is totally appropriate to the class, but I got it. And then all day long, I was trying to be here with it, in this nice place with beautiful maple trees and beautiful tulips and moss hillsides. So lovely and so painful. And you said you're trying to be with it. Yeah. I find myself trying to be with it, and I'm tired. I'm tired of the trying. Yeah, well, then I would try to be with the being tired. I actually didn't get tired. I was more like, what do you call it?

[48:07]

Just kind of like making an effort not to veer away from it. I think veering away from it might have been just as challenging and required just as much energy as kind of being alert to give up trying to be someplace else. Give up trying to be someplace else. Give up looking for Buddha someplace else. That takes energy, to keep giving up running away. But also running away takes energy, too. The energy is all-pervading. It's a question of how you use it. Buddha uses the suffering. I want to use the suffering like the Buddhists do. And I had the suffering. Use it. Why didn't you use it? I used it, yeah. I used it to realize the teaching. And it was difficult.

[49:08]

But I never heard that it's necessarily easy to do this. I haven't heard that. I mean, suffering isn't easy, and being intimate with it isn't easy either. But avoiding it, it's habitual, and it's kind of easy in a way, but it's missing the point. I feel that's not what I want to do, because that's not what Buddha does. Buddha's not running away from my pain. Buddha's looking at my pain and seeing that Buddha's looking at my pain. Buddha's looking at my pain and seeing that I'm Buddha as a sentient being. Buddha's saying, Oh, look at that Buddha as him. How lovely. Okay. Thank you for sharing so honestly.

[50:15]

You're welcome. Following that, now I want to ask you, is the suffering still here? It's the suffering that was here earlier here now? Oh, no. My suffering is impermanent. Okay. I'm glad to hear that. Thank you. But it might get worse in a few seconds. We'll see. Yeah. Well, I hope this doesn't make it worse. It's not the same. It's changing all the time. Maybe if I could tell you people all the different kinds of suffering I had today. It changed all day long. It was changing.

[51:19]

And that's good. But also there was joy, like there's joy right now. But it's not the same joy it was earlier. I had some joy. I didn't mention the joy. Is there some joy in sharing it? Was there? So the reason I put my hand up was that earlier, it's kind of the same question that Sonia asked and I think Peter, but I want to go on with it a little more. When you said, you know, our mind, Buddha's mind, the same. I just had this thought, now he's gone a step too far. You know, that's just a step too far. And I get maybe not separate, but I don't get same. I don't get sameness. And the conversation you had with Sonia. It was mentioned at this point. And there's no Buddha other than what you're thinking right now.

[52:26]

So you say. Yeah. So. Yeah, so I've moved a little bit. There was a little bit of movement in the earlier dialogue, but I'm still kind of stuck in this place. And what came up for me when I thought about it was the words from the Song of the Jewel Mirror. You know, hiding a heron in the moonlight, filling a silver bowl with snow. They're not the same, but when you mix them, you know where they are. And I wondered if you could talk about the mixing. I thought that might help me. Well, when it comes to that, I have a headache.

[53:28]

And I would like you to go talk to somebody else about it. Okay. So. We share that. Thank you. The inquiry and response come up together. You're not rejecting me. You're just saying, go someplace else with this. No, I'm not rejecting you. I'm responding to you. That's fine. Thank you. May I speak, Reb?

[54:30]

I don't know. I don't know if you're next. Are you next? I don't know how to raise the little hand for Zoom. Well, I see there's two people have their little hand. On Zoom, they have this thing called, it's called reactions at the bottom. Can you see reactions? Oh, wait. I see it. If you press reactions. Oh, my God. These are great. There's a little hand there. See the hand? It says raise hand. I do. Thank you. You can also do thumbs up and heart. And a heart. Or, you know, party favors. Yeah. Got it? Got the Zoom teaching. Thank you. I'll wait my turn. Okay. You can put your heart up there if you want to. Jeremy?

[55:34]

Yes. Hi. Hi. Hi. Great assembly. To get me in the mood for the class, I was reading again the Song of the Jewel Mirror. And I didn't get far into it before. Ah, this is the, this is the third truth that you were talking about last week. That is particular, peculiar to Zen. Well, I would say it's something that became very influential in all of Chinese Buddhism. Okay. Not just Zen. Okay. Okay. And then, as you taught this evening, the same thought came. This is the third truth. Yeah. And I'm beginning to get… All three. Our original nature is all three truths, not just the third. It's not just, it's not just the harmony of the two truths.

[56:36]

It's all three. All three. So, for example, this experience right now is difference and unity. Yeah. Harmony, right now. This experience is a precious mirror. Because it's, it would seem… This third truth will always come up. The third truth always comes up, yep. And the other do, the other also do. There's not, never one of the truths by themselves. Yeah. Every experience is all three. Just like in the earlier version of two truths, every experience was two. Every experience was conventional truth, but it was also conventional truth is inseparable from its emptiness. Right, okay.

[57:37]

Every definite thing is inseparable from its ambiguity. It puts a different perspective. But I'm not, I… I need to just have this thought percolating longer, I think, before I can make sense of it. I suppose I was happy with the two. Two is good. Two is good. Two is very, very good for hundreds of years. Yeah, but three is more satisfactory. Three is more satisfactory.

[58:38]

You can stand up with three and two. Yeah, I kind of like three. Yeah, I prefer three. Yeah, even though it's taken kind of a step beyond Buddha. Because the historical Buddha, you know, at a certain point had not brought up the third one. Right. So, in a sense, we're leaping beyond Buddha when we come up with the third one. It's kind of embarrassing. Well, isn't that so of the Mahayana teachings anyway that they come after? Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing. The Mahayana is kind of embarrassing. I… I don't feel any… You may not feel any embarrassment, but you're not the slightest bit different from somebody who does. Okay. Thank you. Good evening, Rev and Great Assembly.

[59:48]

Good evening. I was thinking about your comments earlier about being present with suffering, which I expect is the same as being present with whatever is happening in any given moment. And I'm curious what you would say about the practice. How does one go about being present with what's happening in the moment, being present with the suffering? I think it's easy to imagine running away, and it's easy to imagine, like, fixating or wallowing in it. But I imagine it's somewhere in between those two things. Yeah, it is kind of something more like in the middle. It's more like, like somebody said earlier, it's more like when you're running away, remember that you're running away on the wings of being present.

[60:55]

You're running away on the wings of great compassion, which is completely there, which fits perfectly with the suffering. Not the, you know, a perfect, complete fitting with the suffering. Not too much, not too little, just perfect fit. And when you run away, you're really running away on the wings of this perfect fit. But you can also, so when you're running away, that's a particular type of suffering to take care of and to be present with, and remember the teaching that when I'm running away from suffering, compassion perfectly fits my attempt to get away. No matter what I do, compassion perfectly fits my activity. I remember that, and then may I notice, it's hard for me, I'm not quite settled with that teaching, but I hear it.

[61:58]

I'm aspiring to completely accept the perfect fit of my suffering and the compassion which is right there and never, ever can be anyplace else. If it's someplace else, it's not compassion. Our nature is this perfect fit. And so, and realizing that nature is what saves the world. But it's also realizing what's already the case. It's happening whether we realize it or not. It's happening whether we realize it or not. And we can notice when we're acting like we don't believe it, or we can't stand it, we can't allow it, we can't accept it. What can't we accept? We can't accept the suffering, and we can't accept the teaching that there's a perfect fit

[63:07]

between that suffering and great compassion. We can't accept it, we can't allow it. But we can sometimes feel like, Hey, I think I'm kind of allowing it. And so, and my reward for allowing it is that I'm just flat out suffering. Thanks a lot. So how can we tell in the moment whether or not we are being present with our suffering or our joy or whatever is happening? Well, again, this perfect fit, our original nature is prior to our knowledge of it. It's prior, it's before we have perceptions of it or knowledge of it. So that teaching will help you when you're looking for how to know it.

[64:11]

Which is another thing, compassion perfectly fits with all our attempts to know and realize the way. It perfectly fits all of our vain efforts. This is making me feel as though there's nothing to do. It's all happening anyway. That's another thought that compassion perfectly fits with. But the thought there's nothing to do was an activity. It took several calories to have that thought. And if you kept thinking that thought and didn't eat for a while, you'd get very weak. It takes energy to think there's nothing to do. That's a rather high-energy thought. But that's okay. Just keep eating. And you can keep thinking that way. And remember in the teaching that when you're thinking there's nothing to do,

[65:15]

that thought, which is actually you just did something when you had that thought, compassion is with you when you're thinking there's nothing to do. When you're doing this big thing called nothing to do, nothing to do. Jumping up and down, nothing to do, nothing to do. And then you get the joke because compassion is right there with you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. You just said that if you were present with your suffering, then your reward is you just go on suffering. Not so much you go on suffering. Your reward is suffering flat out. Flat out, you said. Your reward is now you're completely suffering. That's your reward.

[66:19]

That does change the suffering, though. It changes it into Buddha, you could say. Yeah, even though you weren't trying to change it. It got transformed into Buddha. That's the way Buddha would suffer. If Buddha was doing your suffering, Buddha would do it flat out. Yeah. But this isn't what I was going to ask you. That's okay. The wind is an image or a metaphor. It was really nice to hear that again tonight. Just to really imagine the wind. I got a little better sense tonight of what it meant when he says, you understand the nature of the wind, but you don't understand that it's all pervading. So I was thinking of that all pervading image and how it's helpful to be present with anything.

[67:28]

And I have another image also, which is light or radiance. So whatever is happening, which I would habitually try to get away from often or cling to, I sort of see it as held in this large pervading everywhere light. It could be wind. Because light and wind both have a aliveness to them. And this is a kind of device. I just thought of another story, which is the Zen master is using a flashlight. And the monk says, the nature of light is it's all pervading and permanent.

[68:30]

Why do you use a flashlight? Right. And the Zen master would say, I fooled you. No, the Zen master says, you understand that it's permanent, but you don't understand that it's reaching everywhere. And the monk says, what is the meaning of it? And the teacher turns the flashlight on. The light is all pervading. So I'm finding this like a useful, I don't know, device to work with. Being present with whatever arises, whether it's wind or this light. And then I was thinking, though, also that these are both metaphors or images. Fine, just use it. But you also sometimes say Buddha is nothing. You know, it's just nothing. It makes me realize... It's not so much that Buddha is nothing.

[69:31]

It's Buddha is nothing in addition to the way you are now. Which is kind of like, it's a nothing in addition to you. Yeah, I'm just almost finished. I just realized the one thing that I didn't include. So if I am able to use this device of whether it's wind pervading everywhere or light pervading everywhere, then I get sort of that the suffering is present exactly as it always was, except it's now held by this bigger thing, which isn't a thing. Yeah. Yeah. The suffering, and now this big thing, which is not a thing, which you can call the second truth, emptiness.

[70:32]

The suffering is held in emptiness. Which we could think of as wind or light? Yeah. Okay. And they're in perfect harmony, the two. Yeah. But the hard job is to not run away from the particular. Right. Which keeps changing. Like, oh, this hard thing happened and I'm not going to run away from it. Aren't I good? But it already has changed into something else. Already, yeah. It changed into, that was good. And it changed into, oh no, I'm scared of not, you know, like it changes like every moment. It changes every minute. And it pervades, and all those changes are pervaded by the same light. Yeah.

[71:35]

And the light which pervades is not the slightest bit different from the things that are changing. The light that pervades and the light is permanent is not the least bit different from the things that are changing. The light penetrates all through the things, but the things are form. Yeah, the things are form and the things are changing. And that which is not changing is with them all the time. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now all I have to do is try to do this the rest of my life. Please do. Okay. You're muted, Camille.

[72:40]

Okay. Yeah. I always feel like I should be properly, I have my rocks or something, but in any case. It's okay. I don't really have a question. I just, I was debating putting my hands up and once I did, I was like, I shouldn't take them down. So I'm working with that. But I, like, yeah, I agree with everything you said. I heard what you said at the beginning. And I know it's true because it's my own experience. Would you say it again? I heard you say you agree with me and then what? I know it's true because of my own experience. Okay. And so you're, you know, you're doing the chit-chatting or whatever, and your hands are moving and, you know, and Buddhas and ancestors as old as we,

[73:43]

we in the future shall be Buddhas and ancestors, and you realize you're a Buddha like everyone else in the world. Everyone else is a Buddha. Or you're taking out the compost, or you're grading papers, and your arms are moving, you're breathing, except you're not really doing it. So I know what you're saying is true. And yet you take a wrong turn and you're in a conflict with your Sangha buddy, or whatever, your Dharma buddy. And it feels so bad. And I know, I know why it feels bad, I guess. But it's so humiliating. It's, and I, I'm not sure if that's, if that's very different from humbling, but there's just, I know they're the same.

[74:49]

I get what you're saying. I do know that's true that those interactions, you know, that is also Buddha. And that's how I get to see, get to see clearly, more clearly, which is what I want to do. Even though I'm not really the one doing, but then that's another thing. But in any case, I know that's true. And yet the, the, the feeling of humiliation, I hate that. Which is why I didn't lower my hands, you know, because I was like, just the fact that I waited forever to even speak to you, like, you know, it went into the last minute, you know, and then, yeah, I don't know. I wish, I wish, I know, I know that just by saying that, that that is a problem.

[75:50]

But, um, I wish. I wish too. I wish I didn't. Hmm. I don't know if maybe realizing the real Buddhas, maybe that may make, maybe it makes those moments where you're small feels even worse. So I don't know if that makes any sense at all. But just the fact that that, just the fact that that is a reality, do you know what I mean? That you live in a world where there is humiliation, you know? Yeah, I do too. And I want to learn how not to humiliate anybody. I want to learn how to never humiliate anybody. And I think that if I'm ever humiliated,

[76:50]

I want to remember that there's a perfect fit between my humiliation and great compassion. Great compassion is with me when I'm humiliated. And that will help me, I think, not humiliate others, which I do not want to do. I guess the compassion piece is just so hard. It's not supposed to be. I mean, sometimes it feels really easy. Anyway, the teaching is, your original nature is that your suffering is a perfect fit with great compassion. Always. Always. Yeah.

[77:59]

I'll be okay, I think. I think sometimes I think I won't be, but then I, you know, it's my own... You are. Right. Thank you. And when you're not, you're not the slightest bit different from me or Buddha. That's the teaching that we're looking at now. Thank you for raising your hand. Okay. Good evening. Yes. Yeah. Good evening, Rev, and good evening, Great Assembly. I have a question, but first I just want to say that I'm so grateful I was able to come to class tonight, albeit late,

[79:00]

because I spent a good part of my afternoon trying to solve my suffering, which, you know, is basically running away from my suffering. And thanks to this discussion, I feel this opening to compassion for the delusions of separateness and insufficiency that caused my suffering. So it's been really helpful to hold this picture or this idea or this feeling of not separateness. And the compassion is... Well, you know, it is surprising that I know the power of compassion, and yet sometimes it's so hard to awaken to. But when I do, it's such a blessing. So thank you. Thank you and Great Assembly for this.

[80:03]

Thank you for that report. But I do have a question. So when you talked about the third truth early in this class, I thought, oh, he's talking about dependent co-arising. I mean, it seemed to me like, you know, we've talked before about, well, we've used the phrase conventional reality and ultimate reality. And my picture of dependent co-arising was the arising together of those two. So this third truth, I thought, oh, well, we're just using different words for dependent co-arising. But after you spoke to Jeremy and said it's actually something that is beyond the historical Buddha, I thought, well, maybe I'm wrong. Well, the language of the third truth, I don't think the historical Buddha said that, didn't bring up third truth. So in that sense, we're leaping beyond the Buddha.

[81:06]

And maybe we're, we can talk about this maybe over a longer period of time, but I think there is a lot of resonance between the harmony of the first two truths as the third truth and dependent co-arising. Whether they're exactly the same, I think requires more discussion. I consider, I hear what you're saying, and I think there's a lot of merit in what you're saying. But at this point, it's a little hard to say just yes. You don't want to be misleading and just easily say yes, that's right. But I can see, that's a good point. Let's look at that. Okay. Thank you, Rick. You're welcome. Well, I'm sorry not, you know, we have Michelle and Linda and Susan and other people with their, and Karen have their little yellow hands up.

[82:12]

But I hope you can write, would you please write down your, would you write down your questions, please, and bring them up next time? If possible. Susan, can you do that too, please? Because I don't want to keep people late. And at the same time, I really do want to hear your questions. Okay? Thank you. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way. Beings are numberless. I vow to be intimate. Afflictions are inexhaustible. I vow to be intimate. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to be intimate. Buddha way is unsurpassable. I vow to be intimate. Thank you, everybody.

[83:16]

Good night. Thank you.

[83:19]

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