May I remind you that next week I will be at a prenuptial event in San Francisco, so I won't be here next week. However, I was thinking that some of you might want to come and sit together next week, and I was wondering how many people would like to come and sit here next week? One, two, three, four, five, six. Well, if one of you would volunteer to be responsible for having the keys and locking up after the session, then you could get together and have a sitting. So if there's a volunteer who would be willing to do that, maybe you can volunteer now.

[01:06]

So maybe next week not much is going to happen in this room at this time in terms of human habitation, so we'll have a class the following week, the 28th. The koan that I want to bring up tonight, I actually would feel more comfortable whispering to you, but if I whisper, Nancy won't be able to hear me, and maybe some other people wouldn't either, so I'm kind of yelling, but my feeling is that this is a very quiet, kind of a quiet, well, not totally quiet, but has a lot of quietness in it. This is a koan which

[02:11]

I was struck by many years ago, and then I was struck by it again recently, and what struck me is I felt it was quite flower-like, this koan. My perspective on flowers, I'm not telling you how you feel about flowers, but my sense of flowers is that when they're blooming, they're generally quite fragile, and impermanent, often delicate. The fruit which they go with, from my perspective, is often also impermanent or perishable, but it's in some sense sturdier, heavier, and I'm attracted to both flowers and fruit,

[03:17]

but I don't usually think of eating flowers, although some of them can be eaten, and I also don't think of eating fruit except when it's ripe. Some fruits are attractive visually, like flowers are, but also they often are attractive in terms of using them as nourishment, and flowers are nourishing too, but not usually in the sense of eating them. But flowers are nourishing, and this koan is both, potentially can be viewed as a flower, and also relating to it can bring a fruit. I wouldn't exactly call flowers weak, but almost could call them weak. Flowers don't usually

[04:18]

strike me as strong, but this is a koan about strength and weakness. The weakness that I see in this koan is demonstrated by the teacher, and the strength by the student. A friend of mine recently noted that somebody referred to somebody as an Asian psychiatrist, or an African-American psychiatrist, or a black psychiatrist,

[05:18]

but people don't usually say white psychiatrist, or white psychotherapist, but they might say black psychotherapist. So this friend of mine said that from now on she's going to say white psychotherapist, white psychiatrist, white lawyer, white doctor, white politician, so it should be entertaining. This person sometimes has referred to me as a coot, as an old coot, so now it's old white coot. Or a little shrinking old white coot.

[06:28]

A coot is related to a geezer, or a codger. Geezer, codger, coot are terms for elderly people, elderly males. So, elderly males, geezer, coot, and codger. So you can check the dictionary, see if the dictionary says that you don't have to say that it's a male coot. I'll think about what I'd like you to call me. So one rather poetic introduction to this case, which I might as well say it.

[07:41]

Probing pole in hand, shadowing the grass around him, sometimes he wraps a ball of silk with iron, sometimes he wraps a stone with silk. To determine the soft by means of the hard is of course correct. What about the matter of being weak, when meeting strength? Could you hear that Nancy? What?

[08:46]

What about the matter of being weak, when meeting strength? When meeting, when meeting, face to face. Yes. No. No. Not that. Wrap that silk with iron. That's the introduction to this story. Here's the story. And this is a story about an ancestor in the Zen history, a major teacher, and his name is Dachan, which means virtue mountain. And there are stories about him where he is quite dramatic and fierce himself,

[09:50]

a very energetic being. And so now this story takes place when he is perhaps a kajur, a coot or a geezer. Perhaps he's become a little tottery. Tottery? Huh? What's the word? Tottering. A tottering geezer. I don't know, it doesn't say that he's a tottering geezer. But anyway, he's in the position of being the teacher in this story, and he has an attendant. And the attendant, I don't know if the attendant was assigned to him by somebody, like, would you go take care of him please? Or if the attendant was happy to be his attendant, because he was a great Zen teacher. And he thought, okay, geez, I can be the attendant of a great Zen teacher. How wonderful. The attendant's name is He. So attendant He is attending Dachan,

[11:00]

and he says to the teacher something like, Where are all the great sages? Where have all the great sages of antiquity gone? And Dachan says, What? Huh? What's that? I think that's probably, I didn't look up the characters, but I think that's probably what it literally says. Huh? What? And the monk says, another translation of that is, of the teacher's response is, I don't know. But I think actually that's an interpretation of, Huh? What?

[12:00]

Get the picture? The monk says, Where have all the great sages of antiquity gone? And the teacher says, Huh? What? The great Zen master says, What? And then the monk says, the attendant says, The request was for a flying dragon horse, or a horse that runs like a flying dragon. But what showed up was a lame tortoise. And the teacher, Dachan, let it pass. That's the way I first heard it translated. Just let it pass. Now the translation is, he didn't say anything. Kind of in the spirit of being defeated in debate.

[13:03]

Like the student kind of like, asked him a question, he gave an answer, the student basically said, I wanted something, you know, I wanted a galloping horse, but you're like a lame tortoise. And the teacher just didn't say anything. Let it pass. Weak teacher. Weak teacher. The next day, when Dachan came out of the bath, So again, the first way I heard this story was, when Dachan came out of the bath, the attendant served him tea. And he patted the attendant on the back. And he patted the attendant on the back.

[14:18]

And then the attendant says, This geezer has finally gotten a glimpse. Or, Hey old man, you understand a little better today. You understand a little better today. He patted him. That was a little bit better understanding. Again, this pat was interpreted verbally by some people as saying, How are you feeling about the koan you brought up yesterday? And the monk says, You're doing, you know, you're catching on better, old boy. And Dachan, let it pass.

[15:20]

Commenting on this story, there's various ways to go. One way to go is to say, Studying with a teacher, serving a teacher, don't worry about the great sages of antiquity who were, you know, hot stuff. Like, you know, don't worry about great Zen masters like Dachan. It's just enough to serve your teacher. Forget about the glories of the golden age of Zen and all those masters and mistresses. And just take care of your life with the people you're working with. When a person

[16:47]

is being an attendant to somebody, they may say, Oh, I'm being attendant to this person who's playing the role of a teacher. And the teacher is like, you know, something. This teacher is something the student might feel. And then, how much should the teacher let the student serve? How much should the teacher let the student call him teacher? In some sense, the teacher should not take this seriously. The teacher should understand that the student's understanding like, for example, the student's understanding in this case is, you seem to be a lame tortoise. The student's understanding is, I'd like to see some ancient sages here.

[17:50]

The student's understanding from a certain perspective is just kind of a student's understanding. But the teacher's understanding in this story, I think, is that the student's understanding is not separate from the teacher's understanding. The teacher's dharma, the teacher's truth is consists of the student's understanding. The student's understanding that the teacher is lame, the teacher's understanding is in the student's understanding. And just living together with the student having various opinions of the teacher and perhaps believing them, which is not the teacher's position. The teacher doesn't believe

[18:52]

what the student believes. But the teacher's understanding which doesn't believe what the student believes is not separate from what the student believes. And the teacher's understanding is totally included in the student believing what they think. Or going beyond that and getting over it. And not being a student anymore. The teacher's not separate from that either. So this is a story about the teacher being weak in negotiating this relationship. The teacher being like a flower, very delicate, easily crushed, but not protecting itself with some strong comeback

[19:52]

after it almost got knocked down. As a matter of fact, just gently patting the monk the next day when he served the tea. And then again, the monk, another strong response from this teacher's offering and the teacher again doesn't say anything. Just let it pass. When I remembered this story I could hardly remember the student's question. You know, the first student about where are all the sages of antiquity now? Where have they gone? I didn't really remember the question. I just remembered the part about the teacher not having much of an answer and the student not thinking that that was so cool

[20:55]

and the teacher just letting it be. That part I remembered. I didn't remember what the student was looking for in the first place. But I did remember that the student kind of got whatever he was looking for the next day. He got a little bit of it. When the teacher patted him he thought, oh, here we have a little bit of sagehood here. Maybe the teacher patted him and the student could think, there's a little sageness right there. That's a little bit of a wise man. I could feel it sort of the way he touched my shoulder. This is real Zen after all. I'm happy we have this flower which blooms every spring in our tradition

[21:55]

and I'm happy to offer it to you. There's innumerable views of this flower, of course. If you wish to offer any more flowers about this flower you're welcome to do so. Would I? Yes, please. Yes, Jeff. The teacher has become a fruit and the student was looking for a flower. Yes, Bill.

[23:14]

I have a question about this particular teacher. Does he have a record outside of this story? Yeah, I was wondering if I should tell you the other stories first because he's so strong in those stories. Well, what I was saying is if he had a record of having paid his dues he would be entitled to dote and float. Dote and float? That's all. If you paid your dues you have the right to dote and float. Kadger is often dote upon grandchildren. Yesterday I flew to Los Angeles, I flew to Burbank actually to do what my daughter called a bold act of devotion. A bold act of devotion.

[24:15]

She what's the word? proclaimed that it was a bold act of devotion. I threw my body across the sky to Burbank to be present at Grandparents Day at my grandson's school. So he'd have his grandfather there. The people in the school kind of I don't know, they ordered him to show me his book he made describing various things that they're doing in his class. Very studied projects. He was explaining, he had this

[25:23]

book here which he gave to me and I was looking at it and he was explaining it to me. He doesn't very often sit me down and give me explanations of things and tell me stories about what's going on and what he's been doing but they told him to do it and he did it. And I was sitting there looking at me in the face telling me about this and the tears were not so abundant in my eyes that he was embarrassed. They were just acceptable level of moistness but I was just so moved by his genuineness in just being there and talking to me. Part of the story was it doesn't matter what he's saying but he is saying something. The thing is he's actually like he's following the teacher's

[26:24]

instruction and doing this thing which he doesn't like to do like to sit there and tell your grandfather what you've been doing in school but he did it. And then at a certain point that was enough of that and he stopped. He said give me my book back. I wanted to look at more but he had enough of it and took it back. Eleven. I don't know if that was a flower or a fruit that I saw. But without somebody besides me asking him to do that he can't do it. He can't sit right in front of me and tell me what he's doing like that. But they set him up for it and he could do it.

[27:26]

It was worth the trip. And then I came back from Burbank to Oakland and then I came here. And I said to him when his mother said that about this bold act of devotion I said I really am happy to do things in service of my grandson. Even if the things themselves are something I wouldn't ordinarily do like I don't ordinarily get on airplanes and go places. But sometimes if it's my job I do it. Sometimes when I'm at the airport I wonder what am I doing here? Now when I think that

[28:29]

I often think well I'm here to support the people in this line. They're doing a pretty good job and I'm supporting them to be patient and unselfish as they go through this security line. But you know you can't actually do that without having a boarding pass. You can't go and stand in line without a boarding pass. Or you could stand on it I guess and take it to the place where you show the boarding pass and you could say I don't have a boarding pass. I'm just waiting in line to support these people but then they'd probably lock you up. So there is a question about where we should be of service.

[29:32]

You know who we should serve. This is a story about somebody who was serving Dashaun who had paid his dues for quite a long time. Yes? I'm wondering if the teacher's response in some way really was a strong response that in saying huh he was maybe mirroring the student's confusion because the student was asking the teacher's ancestors from the past rather than being in the present. You could say he was mirroring the student's confusion. He was mirroring the student's distraction. You could say that. And you could say that a mirror is a strong thing. A mirror can be a strong thing

[30:38]

in a way. It can be a startling thing. A mirror can startle us. Right? Like whoa! Wow! Amazing! And other times the mirror is more gentle. Sometimes the mirror just kind of lets it pass. Yes? I think that the word strongly and I know that there's a context. And I actually think that strongly there's a context. There are contexts? There is a context. And I actually think that the teacher's response was very strong. It was kind of like iron actually. And just

[31:40]

now it occurred to me as we've been talking about the different times we've been talking about the harmonitas and we've been pointing to patience quite a bit. Great patience. And in my own personal work of working with inpatients and patients kind of the strength it takes to kind of just be so spacious that you can let it pass is not so much an act of maybe what I would call weakness. So I think that it's pretty it's not a clear it's not a clear point there. What's what. And I think the teacher was quite powerful in that. So may I say that you're saying that

[32:41]

you feel the teacher's response or responses were strong? See now that's encouraging to that's encouraging to coots. That in their frail shrunken form they can be offered strong something strong to the young to the young the youngens. Well it's amazing. Again the introduction

[33:42]

could be also you could feel from the introduction that there is this contemplation of of strength and weakness that's part of the opportunity of our life is to contemplate that. Yes Sandy. Judging

[34:43]

yourself being vulnerable to that comment where it really could be an opportunity to get to take that comment from the student and not be and not be so vulnerable to it. Or maybe that's how the teacher actually views himself. Yes certainly that may be how the teacher viewed herself. That certainly is possible but also I kind of feel like the teacher is committed to be vulnerable. Not necessarily committed to be hurt unless it's helpful but if it's helpful the teacher is committed to be hurt.

[35:43]

The teacher is committed to be insulted if it facilitates the relationship. And the teacher may not some teachers may be a little queasy about not being separate from their students understanding because their students understanding is hard to really accept being intimate with. But I think the teacher in this tradition is committed to that even though it's hard. Kind of scary. If you're not separate from the students understanding you might get thrown in the trash bin because students can have that understanding and still be students but if a teacher has that understanding maybe that's not acceptable for a teacher to have an understanding that a student has. The teacher is committed to that.

[36:45]

And students may be but they don't have to be. They're allowed to be students if they're not yet ready to make that commitment. And the teacher maybe is encouraging them to make that commitment so that there'll be another generation of people who aren't afraid to be fools. Or who are afraid to be fools but they have they can be patient with that fear. The Chinese character for you know, De as in Dao De Jing Dao De Jing the De means virtue but it also means power. His name could be Power Mountain. I think Arthur Whaley translated the Dao De Jing as the way and its power. Dao De Jing the power of the way or the virtue of the way. The way and its virtue.

[37:47]

So here this guy's name is Power Mountain. So yeah, dynamic. You have the power to be vulnerable. The power to be not separate from beginners, fools, etc. Yes. Yes. The overt power and the aggressive power is met with a skillful not being there. So that the force of the initial thrust with someone suddenly that person's not there and the

[38:50]

person being aggressive or whatever you want to call this as as his intention. If someone is skilled enough to do that. Yeah. It seems that way anyway. It also seems that when the student asks the question there is and then the teacher gives the answer the student then says well I wanted this but I got this. It's the expectation that the teacher is not responding in an expected manner perhaps to show the student that sometimes the gift is not what you're asking but something else instead. Right. And the teacher lets that pass.

[39:54]

So the student expected some spectacular wise answer. He's asking a sage about where the sages are and the sage doesn't know where the sages are and then he makes a comment on the sage not knowing where the sages are because he kind of expects the sage to know something about or at least make some really brilliant response to their absence. And thereby manifest their presence and he didn't. From the student's point of view and the teacher let him have his expectations. Sometimes teachers don't seem to let the students have expectations. Sometimes they say hand over your expectations. Matter of fact you may be asked to hand over your expectations. Yes? Do you think the student knew that he was dancing?

[40:57]

Do I think the student knew? Well, I think that the knowing that he was dancing I think in the story was enclosed in iron. Which reminds me of King's question. Could you be in the lineage but not know it? Could you be dancing with the sages and not know it? Or could you know it but cover it with iron? Could you have this silky silky dancing relationship with the ancestors, with the sages? Yes. Would you need to know it? No. Could you know it?

[41:59]

The dance would be knowing it. In fact, he was dancing with the teacher. We know it. Now the iron has been removed temporarily. So now we know that he was dancing with the teacher. That the teacher's skill was not separate from or constituted the student's performance. But it looks like the student didn't know it. It looks that way. That there was a covering around this actual wonderful relationship. And it's even a covering from some people's perspective the covering also makes to me the covering of the story makes the story look kind of like outstandingly quiet or

[43:01]

different. There's not that many stories about the teachers having this rather bland quiet, letting it pass answer. But there may be innumerable cases of that story but they didn't write them down because they're so boring. But this one got written down and I think this actually might be a little bit more common than one or two out of a hundred cases in terms of actual anthropology. If you actually saw you might find that this kind of relationship is actually more about what Zen is about is to bring people down right here rather than looking to some heaven with the sages to come and practice right now together. In a lot of the koans that I see I'm aware of both the student

[44:05]

and the teacher dancing and being awake to that dance. So when I hear this koan it appears that the student isn't awake to the dance. It appears that way, yeah. There's many stories where the student isn't awake to the dance but a lot of those stories it looks like the teacher is and the teacher says so. The teacher says, you're not awake to the dance. And then often there's no more comment from the student. But this one the teacher doesn't say the student is not awake to the dance. The teacher lets it pass in both cases. The teacher doesn't indict the student's understanding. The teacher demonstrates the dance very nicely. But it looks like the student is not getting it. But the teacher is saying I'm not separate from the student not getting it. I'm not better

[45:08]

than the student who doesn't get that we're doing this dance together. Here we are, we're actually practicing together, we're actually doing the thing. The student doesn't get it and I'm not separate from him not getting it. I'm a successful teacher of a student who doesn't get it. I've successfully got a student who doesn't understand. I'm successful in that way. I'm successful because I can stand to be a teacher who has students who don't understand. It's similar to the story about the Zen master who says don't you realize you're talking to somebody who can be cut through? You're talking to somebody who can be weak. I've been preparing to be weak. I've been practicing for a long time and now I feel I can make an offering in my weakness. I can make an offering by having students like you who don't understand anything. I can really accept that.

[46:11]

I'm really successful by having students like you who don't get what we're doing together. I look forward to exploring your lack of understanding further. The main way I'll explore it is by not saying anything that bright. And you'll get more and more I don't know what about me. The teacher also isn't invested in thinking I'm not a good teacher because he's not getting it. Before you say anything you say the teacher's not invested. Remember you said the teacher's not invested in something. But that's the important thing.

[47:13]

The teacher's not invested in blank. You can fill in whatever you want there now. She said the teacher's not invested in what? In thinking! The teacher's not invested in thinking. What else? That I'm not a good teacher because the student isn't getting it. All those things the teacher's not invested in plus the teacher's not invested in So in other words, the teacher's not invested in thinking, the teacher's not investigated not thinking, and the teacher's not invested in any thinkings you can be there. However, the teacher also, by not being invested in any of those blanks or those thinkings, can be not invested in being separate from the student

[48:19]

who's invested in thinking. So the student is thinking, he's not a good teacher because I'm not getting it, maybe. Or the student is thinking, he is a good teacher because I'm getting it. If the teacher is really not invested in any of this stuff, the teacher is realizing non-separation from the student's thinking, so the teacher actually might as well be doing the thinking and the teacher can do the thinking, but they're not invested in it. So teachers can think, I'm not a very good teacher because look at my students. Teachers can think that, but teachers in this school should not be invested in any thinking, they should just think and let the thinking drop away and then the next one. But they can also not think, but the main thing is the teacher is not invested. And again, the teacher is not invested means the teacher can demonstrate to those who are

[49:26]

invested that somebody who is not invested is not separate from you when you're invested and they're patient with you. If you're invested, they're patient with you until the end of the investment. And it isn't like now the investment is over so let's have a big party, but you could have a big party at that time because it might be quite wonderful if the investment came to an end and the student wasn't invested, so then the teacher might say, well now I'm going to be invested and you can save me from my investments, but that's a key thing. The teacher is not invested, that's the teacher's role, is to not be invested and still do the new stuff, like take a bath and pet people and say, I knew the answer to that question once but I forgot, yes? The teacher was taking a bath, splish splash, he was taking a bath, long about a Thursday

[50:31]

night, yes? So he was not invested and he was also not vested. He was not invested and he was not vested. Yeah, he was not vested. Well, I don't know, he might have worn some clothes into the bath. I was just very struck by that image in terms of what you were saying earlier about vulnerability and perhaps the state of being as a teacher and how the teacher could be that vulnerable. I can't really think of a more vulnerable moment of bathing and being helped in that moment. And I just thought of my grandson. He performed his service and while he was performing he was very vulnerable. That's why he doesn't usually perform it. But somehow the conditions were such that he performed his service, he was very vulnerable,

[51:39]

and yeah, that was great that he was so vulnerable, telling me about this work that he was doing. And he doesn't usually want to be there, which is understandable. He hasn't taken me on as his teacher. And I wasn't his teacher in that situation either, but the people who he does accept as his teachers, I don't know what the word is, but anyway, they supported him to perform this service to his grandparent. And he was so vulnerable and so, you know, he was so naked, it was amazing. So he was doing that. But you're in a position with your kids of being the teacher, so it's a little harder for you to tell them to be vulnerable with you.

[52:43]

But if you gave them some assignment with their grandparents, you could support them to do that for their grandparents. Yes? I wrote down vulnerability as like the silk, and power as the iron, and this non-separation, like we're all vulnerable, teacher's vulnerable, student is vulnerable, and maturing is our relationship for how we stand in relationship to our vulnerability. And strength. And strength, yeah. Actually, there is no separation in our vulnerability, but how we process the relationship is how we mature. If I feel really scared or vulnerable on the inside, I might come out kind of fighting, so we protect that. Say again? Yes. If I feel really vulnerable on the inside, I might come out fighting, so that, or kind

[53:52]

of a shield. Yeah, you might put iron around your vulnerability. Iron around so that you can't get, you know, a cold heart. So I think this way that we relate to our vulnerability and maturity, we all have that, is part of the maturing. Our maturing. No safety, or lack of safety, or holes in the safety, is pretty much the same thing. It's the same as vulnerability. Vulnerability doesn't mean you're being hurt. It means you can be hurt. And I feel like this practice you've offered is welcoming, wherever it comes.

[54:58]

It's like the process of making a relationship to both being vulnerable, and I'm translating it that way. It's not exactly a translation. That's the usual way we say things. The practice is to welcome being vulnerable, to welcome everything, everything, and then also everything. That's the practice. Basically the practice is welcoming. And then that's the basic, then you move on to ethics, patience, enthusiasm, concentration and wisdom. But the basis is welcoming, learning anyway. We don't always welcome, so then we have something to confess, I didn't welcome. I wondered, I guess you said that the teacher wasn't invested? No, I didn't say that. What do you mean? Vera said that. Vera said that. But I appreciate that she said that. Yeah.

[55:58]

I welcome that she said that. I underline that she said that. I wonder if the student could not be invested, or if you have to go through a period of investment and they're not invested. Do you understand the process? Apparently, yes. Most people have gone through innumerable lifetimes of investment. That's what it looks like. I could be wrong, but I'm not invested in that story. But it looks like most people have done a lot of investing, and now it's time to divest. But, you know, lovingly, graciously, not in a rejection of our investments, carefully give our investments away. Convert all our investments into gifts. Carefully, patiently, ethically, patiently, diligently, calmly, and wisely give all our investments,

[57:07]

which were originally could have been seen as gifts, but we didn't see it, so they look like investments. They were actually gifts. That was the dance. But in our immaturity, we didn't get that, so now it's time to understand that. And it's like, we can, we can do this. We can do this. We have the rest of our lives to learn this. And that doesn't mean that that's the end of the story, but we have the rest of our lives to do it. And then maybe we'll have more opportunities later to continue to learn to divest. Yes? All of this makes me think, all of this conversation makes me think, not feel,

[58:10]

my thick attachments to everything have a bundle of attachments, which of course bring a lot of pain. And I think you might say it seems to do to be patient to your attachments. Yes, I would say that. Welcome them. I would say, yeah, welcome. So now you've noticed them, so now you can welcome them. Welcome them, and be careful of them, and be patient with them. Then you bring benefit to these attachments. And the afflictions, well, they are afflictions. Attachment is a basic form of affliction. And so bring kindness to this affliction of attachment, and that would be beneficial.

[59:17]

And that will set the stage for meditation and wisdom to also work on the attachments. But first of all, we have to benefit the attachments before we can effectively meditate on them. I mean, benefiting them is a kind of meditation, but we're not necessarily calm with them until we benefit them. We have to be kind to them, and then we can calm down with them, and then see them clearly. So the fact that you notice them, and can express that you see them, sets up the opportunity for you to start acting beneficially towards them. It seems that it's such a great affliction. Pardon? That attachment seems to me, as you said, such a great affliction. Yes, it does seem that way. And the patience and the welcoming and so on are insufficient.

[60:26]

They are insufficient, they're not enough. However, they're necessary. In order to do what's sufficient, you have to start by doing those things. You first of all have to benefit these afflictions in order to do what is sufficient. What is sufficient is wisdom. Buddha's wisdom is sufficient. When you have Buddha's wisdom, that will be sufficient. Then you will not be fooled by attachment anymore. That will be sufficient. But to have that wisdom, we must first of all be very kind to the problem. Or as somebody said, you have to love the world before you can save it. You have to love your attachments before you can save them. But loving them isn't enough. You have to also see them for what they are. When you see them for what they are, they're saved. Without changing them at all, they're saved.

[61:28]

This story is very much a story about not changing anything. A student was maybe looking for some changes and the teacher was not really changing things much. Was not reorganizing the setup. The student, in some sense, almost was running the show. Yes? Yes? Yes, Mary? You're wondering if the student is fragile rather than the teacher?

[62:39]

Yes, I think the student is fragile. The student is fragile. I agree. I wouldn't say rather than the teacher though. I think the teacher should be somebody who's gotten used to being fragile through many years of contemplation of being fragile. Or through many years of contemplating, avoiding being open to fragility and led her to be able to actually then open to the fragility, open to the vulnerability. The teacher should encourage everybody to face how fragile we are. But students are fragile even before they face it. Again, my grandson, he doesn't usually like to admit that he's fragile. Even when he's crying and wants to be with his mommy, he doesn't quite admit he's fragile at that time. Sometimes, like not too long ago, we were riding bicycles at Green Gulch

[63:47]

and I saw him approaching a speed bump. And I said, slow down, there's a speed bump. And he didn't slow down. And then he fell off the bike. And when he hit the ground, it wasn't so bad, but then he kept going. And then it started to get really painful. And then he didn't admit that he was fragile. He was very fragile, but he didn't admit it. He said, I'm never going to ride a bike again. And then when certain people tried to assist him, he said, nobody's going to touch me. It's my body, nobody can touch me. So he manifested and demonstrated his fragility, but he was not able to admit, oh, wow, I'm fragile. And not only that, but I'm vulnerable to people helping me to clean my scrapes and bruises.

[64:51]

And in my case, I recently sat in a group of priests. I was talking, the topic of how long we're going to go on with this came up. And I said, well, as long as I can study like this with you, I'm up for it. If I can be of help in the study, I'd love to do this. And if you want to do this with me, I'll keep serving you in this way. Afterwards, someone said, well, I feel I'm kind of not so good about that. Seems like you should stay beyond that and let your dear students take care of you when you're not able to do anything, really, when you're not the teacher the way you used to be, when you're just a ball of fragility and vulnerability.

[65:55]

Let them serve you in that state when you don't even remember, what are we studying again? What's the text? By the way, that's one of the next stories I'm going to bring you. What did you say? I said, good point. I was kind of like, well, I'll be around as long as I can serve as a teacher, but when I'm serving as a teacher by basically just being this, you know, actually not deteriorating, but this thing that's changing in such a way that he can't do any of his old services. He can't perform any of his previous duties anymore. But then I kind of feel like, well, I'll see you later. I don't want to be here for when I'm, like, not able to do any of the stuff I used to do. I'm not much use to you then.

[66:57]

But this person said, well, then you're offering yourself to be cared for, and that's another service which you haven't been doing, maybe, as much as you could do later. I said, yeah, good point. So not invested in which way you're going to be of service. I'd like to be of service in this way rather than a service this way. When I'm of service this way, I'll just die. But if I'm of service this way, I'll keep living. But if this is the way I'm being of service, I don't know if I really want to be of service in that way. And then somebody says, yeah, but that's just as good as the other one. Good point. Because I remember Suzuki Roshi, when he was dying, first of all, he stopped giving talks,

[68:02]

stopped giving doksan, but he still went to the zendo. After a while, he couldn't go to the zendo. After a while, we had to carry him to the zendo. After a while, he couldn't go to the zendo, couldn't go down the stairs. But he was still there in the building, in the city center. He was still there. And he was just like, everything he did was like, to me anyway, everything he did just went right into my, you could say my heart, but it kind of went into my bones. Everything he did was like such clear teaching. I can see so clearly almost every moment that he was, you know, while he was dying, it was so clear. But he wasn't teaching in the ways he used to teach. He was like teaching by wincing, you know, when the incense cones got down to his skin, you know, for the maksa bhajan, he was wincing. That's the way he was teaching. And that's not usually what we think of as the way of teaching.

[69:11]

And I also told you the story about this quite, you could say, famous Zen master who was the abbot of one of the biggest monasteries in Japan. And then after he was abbot, he retired and then he got what they call very old. And I went to see him, you know, when he was in his 80s and he was still this great calligrapher and very light on his feet and very energetic. And then I went to see him when he was very old. And there he was, you know, his students put on his robes, you know, and put him in a chair, fancy teacher's chair. And then they invited some people like me to come and visit him. And I came to visit him and then his student says, Roshi, do you remember this man? He's from San Francisco, remember? Tenshin-san, he's visiting from San Francisco Zen Center.

[70:15]

And his eyes were just glazed and he was drooling. And I saw no sign of him recognizing anything anybody said. And I looked at him and I really thought, what is a Zen master? Is this a Zen master? Or was the guy who was like doing his calligraphy, you know, was that a Zen master? Where's the Zen master? When he was doing the calligraphy I kind of said, well, there's a Zen master. But I didn't really wonder what is the Zen master? In some ways his teaching when he was doing other things didn't really make me wonder what a Zen master was. I just thought, well, you know, this is nice. But when he was in that state I really wondered, what is it? What is wisdom? What is compassion?

[71:17]

Is it gone now? When you start drooling does the wisdom go away? If you can recognize that it's Tuesday, is that wisdom? And then if you can't... So in some ways the most powerful teaching that he ever gave to me was when he was in that state. That's when he really made me wonder, what are we doing here? Rather than, oh, that's what Zen masters are like. And they often do have really nice calligraphy and people pay a lot of money for their calligraphy because they're Zen masters. And if it's not very good calligraphy people say, well, maybe he's not a good Zen master. But at a certain point they say, well, when the handwriting becomes really shaky it's even more beautiful. But what about when there's no handwriting anymore, it's just drool marks? You know. Some big scroll, just a big drool mark.

[72:22]

People look at it, is that a Zen master there? Is that Zen master drool? Your dog is your dog even when they're old. So this is a koan very much about what is a Zen master? Are there guys that give these startling, amazing answers that light the sky? Well, sometimes, yeah. Some of the stories are just dazzling. But sometimes you don't see the dazzle. But the dance is there. And what is the dance? What is the dance? It must be there all the time. Say again?

[73:25]

The dance may be a slow dance. Slow dances are nice sometimes, right? And tortoises go even slower than turtles. Right? Yeah. So next week, looks like we're not going to be meeting here. Hopefully we'll meet the next week. And also I told you before that there's a class here at the yoga room and other venues. We're starting kind of a new type of study which sort of starts with the study of the Buddhist teachings of the unconscious mind. And so they'll be offered at various venues, but in particular we'll offer a class here at the yoga room. The unconscious support of the mind of delusion.

[74:29]

So this is the beginning of, I think, a long study of a text called The Summary of Mahayana, The Summary of the Great Vehicle, which is a study of the mind of delusion. It starts with looking at the unconscious support of the mind of delusion. So keep tuned to your local information sources. Yes? Is there a Sanskrit or a Chinese name for that text? The Sanskrit name is Mahayana Sangraha. It's by the great ancestor Asanga. And it's a commentary, basically it's a commentary on the Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra. And Donna Moyer and Linda Gagoza have a publishing business and they're publishing a commentary on the Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra. And then the Mahayana Sangraha is a commentary,

[75:34]

an ancient commentary on that Sūtra. And so I'm turning towards that for a while. And it seems to be going quite slowly, so it'll probably be a while. But I'm really... I'm enthused about what a rich object of contemplation it is. So I just wanted to inform you of this direction. And the publisher of the translation will be very happy that I'm doing this. The publisher of the translation of the Mahayana Sangraha, which is, in English, a summary of the great vehicle. But actually now I just might briefly mention that the word that they translated as summary from Chinese

[76:34]

could also be translated as embrace and sustain, or embraced and sustained. So it could also be translated as embraced by and embracing the great vehicle through the study of these teachings of mind. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

[77:28]

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