we can directly approach this story but last week I gave a lot of background a lot of background to this story I guess my feeling is that Now that I've put all that background out there, we probably should use it rather than just put it out there a little bit and have it run through your fingers. It is possible, this story is not so complicated, and it is possible to just look at the story and, thank you, to just look at the story and go right into it.

[01:16]

But in this particular case, last week I gave a lot of background to the story, but it was not possible, I don't think it was possible for people to absorb the background. So I'd like to go over, my thought is to go over the story and the background again until it looks like you can actually use the story and the background as a thorough example, a fairly thorough example of how you can use background to go into a story, although you don't need the background. Just, you know, enough right there to get into the story. Now, that's how it seems to me, but if there's any bystanders who don't agree, please come forward.

[02:25]

Can we come forward if we agree? Yes, you may. OK, so here's a story. So Magu, you know Magu? Magu Boucher came to see, who did he come to see? Magu Bauchya came to see who? Sangji. Magu Bauchya came to see who? Sangji.

[03:39]

that this romanization zh is the pinyin romanization they have zh and q for two different ways to say ch why don't you just use zh excuse me two different ways of saying j so it's jang jing [...] That was like the staff sounds when it bling it. Zhang Jing, okay? Magu came to see Zhang Jing. Right? Came to see Zhang Jing. Let's say Zhang Jing, he's typical here. And he walked around Zhang Jing three times. Three times.

[04:41]

How many times did he walk around? Two. Right, right. Then he stood in front of John Jing. And what did he do? He stood upright. And John Jing said... Right, right, right. Or correct. Correct. Okay. In the Doksan room at Quingolch, I'm going to move my seat away from the wall a little bit. It is traditional to walk around like that. Then I left Zhang Jing and went to see Nanshuang.

[06:01]

Yeah. You say it's traditional to walk around every time, but it wouldn't be traditional to shake the stand. Or would it? You didn't plant it whole. It's not so traditional to shake it, but to walk around. Yeah, and also usually you would bow to the teacher before you walk around. But that is a traditional thing to do, walking around a... as a sign of respect. It says in many sutras that they came to Buddha, they bared their right shoulder and walked around to the right three times and sat down in front of the Buddha. That's a traditional thing to do from before Buddha even, but that's what the Buddhist monks, many sutras, it says that they did that with the Buddha. But anyway, this case, he presented himself in this way. Then he went to see Nanquan and did the same thing. and stood there and Nan Chuan said, wrong, wrong, incorrect, incorrect.

[07:04]

And then Magu said what? And Nan Chuan said, I knew it's wrong. This is something that can be built by the power of the end and that we decide. Okay. Now, let's just say the story, okay? One, two, three. Magu. One, two, three. Magu. Why we also went to Najwaan, so what do meditation seek to read times?

[08:14]

Should I step up and fill their attention? Najwaan said, wrong, wrong. The father said, the only thing he said, right, but why do you say it wrong? Najwaan said, the only thing he is right. It's you who is wrong. This is something that can be blown by the power of the wind. It inevitably disintegrates. Okay, so does everybody got that story now? If someone asked you about it, could you recite it? More or less. The commentator says that this interaction that occurred here is just like when Longjia went to see the sixth patriarch at Sau Chi.

[09:32]

The commentator on this case is saying that this story is just like another story that happened in Zen history. So this monk named Longjia went to see the sixth patriarch. What did he do? Didn't bow. Didn't bow. Walked right up to the sixth patriarch. Now, again, usually if you go see a teacher, you express some sign of respect. Now this teacher is the sixth patriarch, right?

[10:36]

This is like the biggest teacher in the history of Zen. So this guy's coming to see him, right? Long job. So it's particularly impressive that he just walked right up to the sixth patriarch and didn't bow to him. And the sixth patriarch thought, oh, this month, there must be something he's trying to tell me. This is very unusual. So he asked him, what's the reason that you're acting this way? And what did Long Jia say? Matter of watching this is important and permanence is swift. Don't waste time. I didn't say that. He said... The matter of birth and death is most important, or the most grave matter. Impermanence is very fast. And then what did the patriarchs say to him? I think you'd realize no birth, no death.

[11:43]

There's a play on words here. He said, Why can't you experience no birth and realize no speed or no swiftness? Birth and death is the great matter. Impermanence is swift. And the patriarch said, Why can't you experience no birth and realize no swiftness? experience no birth, realize no swiftness. And Lung Jia said, originally, experience is no birth, and realization is no swiftness. Patriarch said, write it.

[12:43]

Then Lung Jia did his full prostrations to the patriarch and started to leave. The patriarch said, since you've realized no swiftness, what's the hurry to leave? But he left anyway. And he became famous, as many people were enlightened under the Sixth Patriarch, but this man became famous for arriving in one night and then leaving right away. Most people, of course, stayed longer before their realization and oftentimes hung around afterwards. That's the usual way, just to sort of immerse themselves in the good times to enjoy their meeting over some period of time. This guy left. So it's an unusual story. Also, the sixth patriarch is unusual.

[13:52]

I just might mention parenthetically that I sometimes say, well, the sixth patriarch did this or the sixth patriarch did that. For example, the sixth patriarch was a lay person when he received Dharma transmission from the great fifth patriarch. But that doesn't mean everybody can do it that way. Unusual fellow. And it doesn't mean everybody can do a longja as it did too. Yes. Was he ordained? What? The Sixth Patriarch? Yes, Sixth Patriarch was ordained. Yes, he, after his downward transmission, he was told to hide out because people would kill him. And there's two meanings of killing. One is that they would literally kill him because of the politics around succession to such a

[14:54]

a spiritual authority of that greatness as political and economic ramifications. For example, donations, lands and stuff, come to the community of such a great teacher as the successor of the fifth patriarch. So he actually might be killed, literally. But more certainly he would have been killed by being forced to be a teacher too soon. And another, in a particular aspect of his danger, of the danger of the sixth patriarch of becoming a teacher, is that the disciples of the fifth patriarch would have made him be like the fifth patriarch. If you become a successor to some great teacher, then everybody wants you to teach the same as that teacher. Tremendous social pressure to keep up the same show, right? Which is the same as saying he was too young to be a teacher of the assembly because he's too young to resist the temptation to do the same thing as his predecessor.

[15:57]

So he hid out for 16 years. He was 24 years old when he received this transmission and he hid out for 16 years. When he was 40 he came out of hiding. People recognized who he was and shortly after that the people asked him to become ordained and he was ordained as a priest. and then he himself gave ordinations and so on. When he was about forty he became ordained. Okay, so you see the background story like this? This is the background story this is being compared to? Do you remember it? Yes? We looked up for the background story. What? What the background story? We left it out. The part where, I forget he says, in the middle there, no verse refers to the non-moving of time and no speed refers to the non-moving of space.

[17:03]

Well, actually, strictly speaking, that's an interpretation of the person who's introducing this Song of Enlightenment, which is actually the Sixth Patriarch didn't say that. That was a comment. So, the comment was that no birth refers to the non-moving of time. No birth refers to the fact that time doesn't move. Usually people think, oh, you know, time is kind of like a river, right? Because time is running. Time is swift. And yet it doesn't move. I mean, that's what no birth means. And no swiftness or no speed refers to the non-moving of space. This is the comment. Six Patriarch didn't say that. Could you need a comment about the non-moving of space?

[18:04]

Can I talk about the non-moving of space? I have a harder time grasping that. Could we talk about that some other time? Would that be all right? Because I think if we get into that... That's too big a change. Yeah, I think what we need to do is we need to work with this material. And if we do, I think that we'll be able to go off on that. But if we go off on that, I think I have to be careful not to get too spatial in my speech. But I'll remember that, and you can remember it too, okay? Good. That's a background story that the commentator is saying, this is a reenactment of that story. Okay? And here's another story, right? That's in the commentary. Excuse me, I missed the class last week.

[19:05]

Is there a reference to that background story? It's in the introduction to the Song of Enlightenment in a book called Poetry of Enlightenment. That story is told in there. Also that story is on tape this week and last week. This week without the commentary inserted last week with the commentary. I recommend you memorize that story. It's a good story. to have in your heart. The next story, which is about this, and again, I would tell you that one way to look at these stories are these are ways to walk around the story. A story about walking around somebody, now these backgrounds are ways to walk around the story itself. Next story is about Yangshan and Zhongyi.

[20:14]

Zhongyi ordained Yangshan, gave him the precepts. I would guess that this is the person who gave him the full bhikkhu precepts, 250 precepts. I'm not sure. that Yangshan went to Zhongyi to thank him for ordaining him. And the way he did that was he walked up to Zhongyi and walked to the west and then to the east and from the east to the west. And then he came back to the middle and stood there. Okay, does that sound familiar? And then Jung Yi said, where did you get this state from?

[21:17]

And the word state is... the Chinese word, sammi, sammi or sammai, means samadhi. Where did you get this samadhi? Oh, I got it wrong, sorry. He walked in there, and before he walked from the east to the west, when he walked up to Zung Yi first, Zung Yi clapped his hands and said, which in Chinese means something like, oh, how terrible, or oh, I'm scared, or what's going to happen now? Then he walked back and forth. And then the teacher said, where did you attain this state? Where did you attain this samadhi? What samadhi? What samadhi is he talking about? Julmere. No, but I mean, without giving it a name. He said, this samadhi, right? What samadhi? He didn't have a staff, but anyway, this samadhi.

[22:22]

In other words, here's this guy coming up to him. Where did you attain this state? Right here. So I can ask you people, if you would come to say thank you for ordination or something, If you were ordained and you came afterwards to say, thank you for ordination, and I saw you coming and I would say, oh my God, what's going to happen now? This person is going to say, thank you, okay. And then the person goes back and forth and stands in front of me and says, and I say, where did you attain this state? And what did he say? I got it up, the seal... No, I learned it. I learned it from the seal taken off Sao Chi. Now, what seal? What seal happened at Sao Chi?

[23:24]

What was the seal that happened at Sao Chi? The seal of Long Chi? The story you just told. That seal, when he got confirmed by the Six Patriarchs. Right, when the Six Patriarchs said, right, that's the seal that happened there. It's taken off the Sixth Patriarch. Taken off some... That's where he got it. Anyway, that's what he said. We can go into what that means. Anyway, he's saying, I got this state from the seal, which was taken... from the sixth patriarch by this guy, this Longjia. That's where I got it. And then Song Yi says, what? Who does this state receive?

[24:27]

And then he says, Right. This state receives Longjia. That's who this state receives. And then Yangshan turns the tables on the teacher and says, where did you get this state? And Zongyi says, I got it at great master Ma's place. Now, who was Soong Yi's teacher, do you suppose? Great Master Ma, yes. Great Master Ma, probably. Who was Nan Chuan's teacher? Matsu. Who was Magu's teacher? Matsu. Right.

[25:29]

Who was Sung Yi's teacher? You don't know. Who was Baijiang's teacher? Master Ma is a teacher of Magu, Nanshuang, and probably Sung Yi, we don't know. But anyway, this guy Magu is going to ask one of his older Dharma brothers also a student of his teacher, this thing. He's going to walk around one of his Dharma brothers and meet one of his Dharma brothers. Okay? Jungji, does he live before or after Master Ma? Jungjia? Jungjia. Does he live before or after Master Ma? Before. Before, probably. because Master Ma is two generations after the Sixth Patriarch, right? So you have the Sixth Patriarch and his student Lungjia, and the Sixth Patriarch has many disciples, and then after them, one generation after them, comes Master Ma, and now we are another generation after Master Ma at this story.

[26:43]

And then, the story of Yangshan, Yangshan comes another generation after Master Maha, and another generation after Master Maha. And he says that he got that Samadhi from all about five generations before. Okay? So, what's happening here is various things. One is that five generations after Master Maha Lung Zhao meets the sixth patriarch. Somebody's saying that he got this samadhi from the seal, which somebody who wasn't a teacher, we know Lung Zhao's not his teacher, he's in a different lineage, but he got it from that same seal of confirmation that happened at that time. That's one thing we know. Also, that the state which The state which Yangshan is demonstrating to this teacher is a state that was attained generations before.

[27:52]

So part of what's going on in this story is the proposal that what we have here that's being transmitted is a state, is a state of samadhi. And that the state of samadhi is to be demonstrated in the interaction, tested to see if it's the proper state, namely the state that's been happening between student and teacher, going back generation and generation and generation, same state, always the same state. And Each one of these stories, the person is coming forth, presenting their state in a unique way at this point in time and space, and reenacting the same story over and over, sometimes looking somewhat similar, sometimes looking quite different.

[28:55]

Now the introduction to this case. Going back to the introduction now, to this little bit of background. Pointing to a deer, making it out to be a horse. Picking up earth and turning it into gold. Rousing the wind and thunder on the tongue. What does it say? Hiding a bloody sword between the eyebrows, sitting there watching success and failure, standing there examining death and life. Tell me, what state is this?

[30:26]

What samadhi is this? While sitting, success and failure is perceived. While standing, birth and death, life and death are examined. What state or what kind of a samadhi is this? Any comments?

[31:35]

City, success and failure are perceived. Standing, birth and death or life and death are examined. What kind of state is this? Yeah. In some sense, it seems like the ordinary state. It's the state that we're always in. Really? It does, doesn't it? Fundamental ignorance. Yeah. People are sitting around perceiving success and failure. I actually saw some success and failures myself today. Did any of you? I failed at studying as much as I wanted to today, but I succeeded at cleaning the house. I succeeded at not gaining a lot of weight today, but I failed at protecting my face from deterioration.

[32:54]

Got a pimple. It surprised me at five o'clock. I succeeded at washing the dishes with my crew very rapidly. I sat and perceived success and failure quite ordinary. in this ordinary state of affairs which probably most of you experience today, right? Did anybody not experience some success and failure? Does that mean everybody did see a little bit of success and failure? Steakly versed in success. Yeah, we all made it to tonight, right? That's one of the biggest successes. But there were little failures along the way for most of us, right? quite ordinary, and also that ordinary state of affairs is being acted out here in this story three times, actually, two times in the main case, and there's another follow-up.

[34:11]

After this, he went and did it again, right? He went off and tested it again with who? He already did it with Nansho. He went and did it with... Magu wanted to see if others elsewhere were alike, so he also went to national teacher Hoi Jong. He went to see a national teacher to check it out now. Now, this national teacher, I think... maybe was a direct disciple of the sixth patriarch who was still alive. Anyway, we have him doing it three times, checking out success and failure. The Zen people are willing to play this game. Right, wrong, right, wrong.

[35:12]

Who's right, who's wrong? They're willing to play this game, success and failure. Also, birth and death. We see that's also being played out here too, right? From the story of Longjiao about birth and death. Oh, by the way, did any of you examine birth and death today? Did anybody examine life today? We want to ask if anybody didn't. Did anybody examine death today? So this is an ordinary state for you people. It's also the work of these Zen ancestors. And this stick too. This stick, this one has six rings. And I'm sorry we don't have the full scale version.

[36:17]

Usually the full set has 12 rings on it. The 12 rings stand for the 12 rings, 12 links of dependent co-origination. 12 links of the origination of birth and death. So monks walked around carrying this, and one reason, one use of this is to sterilize animals so you don't hurt them or they don't hurt you. Another reason to let people know you're coming to death. But another reason is birth and death. And death. All day long walking. Birth and death. Andy. I want to take a walk like that sometime. Over here. Death. And yesterday we did a memorial service, and I walked in like this, and I bet a lot of people knew what the sound of that was.

[37:22]

In this case, death. But there's birth there, too. There's life there. Here's a person walking along saying death. What's this state? Where did you learn about this state? Have you learned about this state? What state is it? It's a state of perceiving success and failure of examining birth and death. That's the state. Where did you learn that state? Maybe you're embarrassed to say no, but some of you may have learned that state. Where did you learn it? Did you learn it at Green Gulch? You learned it in Connecticut?

[38:29]

I know, but where did you learn this samadhi of perceiving gain and loss and examining both the depth? What's your answer? Your answer was happening when you were born? Is that when you learned it? When you were conceived in a womb or when you were delivered? So we'll come back to you a little later. So where did you learn? Did you learn this Samadhi? Yeah, I mean, you could take this as a historical question. When did you learn this state? When did you first learn it? Where did you get it? Yeah. Just covering what's up will be detached from what's up. Pardon? Discovering myself.

[39:31]

Where? Where did you learn that? I think there isn't any real point in time and space. Pardon? There isn't any real point in time and space. Yes, maybe so. There's no real point, but still, what's the answer? What place and what time did you learn it? That's what they're asking. Because this samadhi happens at a time and a space. Think about it. Try to find the You can generally realize this state if you wish. That's already been done. And you've got no work to do. What did Magu say? Remember? He was fanning himself in the wind. Fanning himself in the heat. And the monk said to him, the wind reaches everywhere. Every state is like this. It reaches everywhere and it's permanent.

[40:34]

So why fan yourself? Why tell me or anybody else what time and what place you realize this state? Because all states have it, right? Why mention one? If you say that, you understand that it's permanent but you don't understand what it means that it reaches every particular place. What is the meaning of it reaching every particular place? You say, you do right now. Or you tell me when it happened first. You find that time. Nobody else knows but you, each one of you. What's the answer? Where did you get this? Where did you receive this? Now there's one other dimension here. And that is that this is not something that happens alone. There's somebody else there to see you do it. I saw a movie, and it's a very controversial movie, but one part of it... Actually, this part's controversial, too.

[41:42]

This woman loved a man, and the man got killed. And the woman went back to someone who had seen this man and this woman together, and she said, Tell me what you saw. Did you see us together? What did you see when you saw us together? And the man said, I saw you together. I saw you look at him and I saw him look at you. I saw you kiss him and I saw him kiss you. She needed somebody to witness that. So, not only do you have to find time and place when you got this state, but to get this state, somebody else has to see you get it. That's why it is at a particular time and a place and you're not alone when that happens. That's one way to understand this story or all these stories right here in this little section. You're already enlightened because this state is ordinary state.

[42:45]

It's an ordinary state of watching birth and death and experiencing gain and loss. This is an ordinary state. If you're aware of it, you're aware of your ordinary mind. But to get the samadhi, there has to be confirmation. When Longja went to see the sixth patriarch, he already was enlightened. He already knew that the ordinary mind is the Buddha mind. But he needed somebody to witness and confirm him. What? Yeah, I still understand that. Why? And you wouldn't need that, right? Will you still be enlightened if you've never got that? Psychologically speaking, I would say that you don't know yourself until someone else knows you. That that's the way we're built. From the time we're babies, we do not know ourself until our mother or father says, there you are.

[43:54]

We know something about ourself. But when we're recognized, we know ourself in a way we don't know ourself before we're recognized. Is this a fact for you? You're talking about that state. You're bored, let's say, when you conceived and went. I feel like I lost it. I forgot that access to that state. You lost access to that state. Right. They struggled to get back to find it. Yeah. Now we're struggling to get back to that state. And what's being said here is when you get back to that state, good, that's called just sitting. Then for someone to witness that you're back to that state completes the story. Can you give it on your own and then get confirmation? You must get it on your own. You get it on your own. It's who you are. Who you are is who you are. You don't get that from somebody else. But what a human being is, is actually that they are more themselves when someone else recognizes them than before.

[45:08]

But that may happen at one place in time, and it may fade after that. This is also what this story says to me. When Nan Chuan says, wrong, wrong. Who knows what kind of state he was in when he went to Nan Chuan. It goes with the wind. That's right. And maybe there's a possibility that he carried... the state from one state to the next. And if you carry that state, if you get confirmation and take that confirmed state over to see another teacher, that's wrong. Because you're not examining birth and death anymore. And you're not perceiving gain and loss. You're holding on to the self, which was confirmed before... So then you have to struggle to get back to your place again, which means you have to drop everything and then not carry anything and return to the examination of birth and death and the perceiving of gain and loss or right and wrong or success and failure.

[46:26]

You have to go back to that ordinary state. You have to put aside your awakening, your enlightenment, which you've got from this last confirmation and return to the ordinary state of where you're right in the ordinary slums of human consciousness, gain and loss, birth and death, and not bring anything there to comfort you. Case number one, what does it say? It says in the introduction of case number one, the beginning of this book, it says... How can it bear sitting on a carved wooden seat sporting devil eyes? What is it? What is it? The state. The state. How can the state bear sitting up on these chairs sporting devil eyes? So these monks were going around to these carved seats looking in these devil eyes

[47:27]

to see if there's some eyes up there. Are there eyes actually? Does this state have eyes? And then do these eyes see me having that state? Do these eyes see my eyes coming out of the same state? First case up to here. We have this issue. These Zen monks are looking for eyes. This samadhi, this Buddha mind has eyes. the treasury or the womb of true Dharma eyes. And again, case 13 says, don't destroy this treasury of true Dharma eyes. But of course you must destroy it because the true Dharma eyes are eyes which are looking at birth and death. They aren't holding on to the treasury. It must be destroyed. What's the unique quality of this story? The seal, the recognition is strong here and also what else?

[48:39]

The fact of carrying and holding on to the seal. Transmission and holding to the transmission. is it one of the points that you can't point that it's such a paradox in looking for acknowledgement but yet if you point at the state it's no longer you're pointing at something that's an object and you're holding on to the object of knowing what the state was yep that's one of the varieties of clean this is a you know I I'm talking about this story and I'm being sincere, but I also would sincerely say that I'm somewhat of a hypocrite to talk about this story. Because how often do I live in this way? How often when I meet a person do I walk around them three times and stand before them and shake the staff and stand in detention?

[49:47]

This is obviously the way to meet every single person all day long. You walk around each person three times and stand in front of them. Not only that, but when you do that, you do that without carrying anything to that process of recognition. Well, this is a meditation practice. Do you understand it? Every person you meet, walk around them three times, stand in front of them, shake your staff, and just be there with them. And also, don't carry even that instruction with you to do that. And if you've ever done it in the past, forget about it. And don't even know how to do it. Isn't that what you believe in? Who does that? or lungjia, right? And all of our ancestors have done this.

[50:49]

Where have you done it? Where have you gotten it? Have you not gotten it yet? Just that, you know, It's very tricky because if you say, where have I gotten it at some time in the past, you're carrying that with you. Just by saying, I got it at that moment, is almost, you almost can't say without carrying it to say that. But you can say it without carrying it. and you must be able to say it without carrying. And you must be able to not cross out being able to say it because you might be carrying it. That's how thorough not carrying it is, is that you can say, I got it in 1972 in South San Francisco.

[52:01]

If you can't say that, I would say that I got it when Suzuki Roshi and I bowed to each other when I was a new student. That's okay. And I lost it. You're supposed to lose it. You're supposed to lose it. And if you can remember what you're supposed to have forgotten... without having brought it to the meeting before you were asked the question, then it's fine. In this story, he went right up and did the same thing to other guys, so probably he was carrying it. If you had, right after you met Suzuki Roshi, if you'd gone and tried it with somebody else, maybe, but if you really did almost forget it, and if I asked you and you hadn't thought about it for many years in between and then just popped up, it might be okay. There's no mark of what it looks like when you've actually dropped everything. It can even look like you brought something with you. It must be able to be that way too.

[53:07]

Otherwise, Buddha would have a mark called, you know, not looking like Buddha's carrying anything. Buddha can even look like, you can even say, hey, there's Buddha. Buddha's carrying something. It can even look like that. You're a new cup of ice. So you're a great storyteller. I need to hear something repeated, I think. So if you have that idea that the way to meet people is just to maybe walk around here three times without any fixed idea or without hearing an idea, how do you check yourself? Or just, yeah. So would you repeat your question again?

[54:13]

Well, how do you check yourself? In a way, you're carrying a fixed idea. This is the way I think I should meet people without a fixed idea, just approach them. I can see being attached to this idea of how I think I should be approaching people. How do you check yourself if you're carrying something with me? Well, you want to check yourself first? There's two parts of Zen, right? First is check yourself, then the other one is somebody else checks you. Okay? So you want to know about checking yourself first? So what you do is you go and you meet somebody, like right now we're meeting, right? And so here we are meeting. Now, how am I going to walk around you three times without even remembering that I'm going to walk around you three times? Now if I carry with me the agenda of walking around you three times to meet you, then I can check that out whether I'm carrying that with me or not.

[55:21]

And if I find out that I'm carrying the agenda of walking around you three times, if I admit that to myself, that's where I'm at. That's not carrying anything, that's identifying my current monkey mind. And it's a relationship to meeting you. And the more I thoroughly admit that, the more impossible it is for me to bring anything to it. And the more it is just moment by moment observing birth and death. If I look, I can find out if I'm dragging something in there. In fact, I can find myself dragging things in there. I can say, there you are, you're bringing something in there. You're holding on to some way of acting with the person. There it is. I'm embarrassed. But I didn't carry being embarrassed to the situation. I discovered my embarrassment.

[56:22]

That's fresh. Fresh embarrassment. That's why blushing is really a wonderful sign of Zen practice. Although it's embarrassing. Now, next is... What does the other person think? Do they feel like you're not bringing anything, too? Well, check it out. And then sometimes they may say, wrong, and you may say, wrong. Back to them. Maybe they're holding onto some idea the way you're supposed to act when you're not bringing anything. Then they have to be honest. So it's like honesty, honesty, back and forth. Again, previous stories, it's like the flash of lightning is too slow in these situations. But part of it is you check yourself out. Again, this is from the beginning of this class, from the beginning of Mahayana Buddhism, the basic agenda is, are you projecting inherent existence on things?

[57:30]

Probably so. Probably all the time. But if you admit that, then you're in to observing gain and loss. Because you're observing yourself being into attributing gain and loss. That is the state. The state, the samadhi here, the samadhi which these people are realizing is not the samadhi where they do not attribute gain and loss. It is the situation where they are aware that they are attributing gain and loss. In other words, they're being honest about having ordinary human consciousness. They are observing that they're into birth and death, that they think that they're being born and dying. That they're afraid of birth and death. They're afraid to live, they're afraid to die. This is ordinary state. They're willing to be human completely and not move the slightest bit away from being an ordinary human.

[58:36]

And then they not only do that, but then they do it with somebody else. And they do it with somebody who's got eyes You go to somebody who's got eyes and can look at you, and you can say, what do you see? And they can say, wrong. And that counts for you. Because you say you've got eyes, or maybe you've got eyes, so what do you see? And people don't want to ask that question too much, especially after they've just done some work on themselves. But I should say especially. I would say you really don't want to ask that question until you've done the work with yourself. If you hadn't done the work with yourself, you really do not want to ask that question. Now, you actually may ask it, but you're just, well, how do I put it? If you don't work on yourself and you ask the question of someone else, you really don't even know what you're asking yet. And in fact, they can't hurt you because nobody's home. But if you're home, then you really are able to ask the question, but you're scared to ask the question.

[59:49]

And the other person is a little bit scared to tell you too. Yeah. In some ways, I see some danger of asking that question because it seems to me like it would be propagating the same thing that happened around the childhood time that we were talking with earlier. Because you're asking a question externally. You're asking for someone to make a judgment on you or whatever. And if you incorporate that judgment yourself, then don't you lose that state that you had before? Possibly. You should not incorporate the other person's judgment into yourself. That would not be good. That's right. Don't do it. But it seems like that would be a fairly difficult thing to avoid. At certain phases of our psychological development it is very difficult to avoid it.

[61:07]

At other stages it's not so difficult. That's why this kind of practice is not for young, you know, very young people who have not yet formed a self. Because if you haven't formed a self yet, then certain figures their view will be interjected into yourself and it'll just cause all kinds of psychic havoc and it won't be a situation where you will be able to get confirmation of being yourself. You'll get the other person to do your job for you and all kinds of confusion like that will happen. So this kind of practice is for someone who's actually able to look at himself identify what he's doing and say, this is what I'm doing. And I am doing this and only this. And I'm never going to do anything but this. And there's no other time for now besides now anyway. So for all of eternity, all I'm doing is being myself. And this is completely who I am. And I've realized this.

[62:08]

And this is called your personal realization. And you bring this personal realization to somebody to see if it's not just personal. There is personal realization, but Buddha's realization is not a personal realization. Buddha's realization is the mind of all beings. And you test it out with one other, for starters, and then another other, and another other. But you must be able to stand your own ground, first of all. And if you're not able yet to do that, you're not ready to go meet somebody else. And your meetings with other people should be mainly not anybody testing you to see if they can interject something on you, but somebody just to encourage you to be yourself. And so part of Zen practice might be, at the beginning years, just keep encouraging people, be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. And then when somebody can be themselves and say, no, bring that self forward and show it to me,

[63:14]

And see if I push myself onto yours, that you can stand there and, without rejecting me, be yourself. And then for somebody to say, I see you there being yourself in the face of me being myself. Each person standing in their true position. And there's a danger even at that point. But it's a danger which... It's a necessary danger. And it usually doesn't shift back, usually, to interjection of other people's material into your ego at that point. Rather than interjection, there's various dangers.

[64:24]

One danger is you back off your place. You don't take into yourself the other person's opinion. You just back down as one. The other is, if they disagree with you, you discredit them. They don't really see it. In other words, you cancel the ability to be recognized because the recognition is not what you expected. That's a danger. And one of the main ways that you can back down to your physician is if you see the other person flinch and not be able to have the integrity to do her job, that you don't admit that you saw them do it. I call it being respectful and call it being respectful of the other person. Call it being respectful or call it being, oh no, he wouldn't do that.

[65:27]

He's much stronger than that. The teacher wouldn't be not able to face me now that I'm being myself finally. I don't actually see a confused person over there, do I? Who's awestruck by me. Couldn't be that. These are some dangers. There's probably quite a few. Maybe there's certain basic varieties, but... You know... Give me a break. And you know what? You do. You give me a break. Almost nobody really pushes me to meet him. I'm scared to death that something like that would happen.

[66:30]

So I'm just kidding. You're not giving me a break. You're already giving me a break. Uh-oh. Yes? That's right. Yes. Yes. So if you penetrate all those questions it was, the clenches and the stabbing pain because someone doesn't walk into your life, those were just fleeting winds. Right, yes. Because there's nothing actually there at all. There's nothing there at all, that's right. To cling to or to carry. To cling to or to carry, that's right. And the whole point of Buddhism is to bring our total life energy to these fleeting non-entities to enact this cosmic theory.

[67:44]

Yes? It's important to make this greeting the same way every time. If you walk around the room, the person three times and all that, if you do that procedure, every single time you greet a person, it becomes much more difficult to do it fresh. So why not do it a different way, do the same thing? You meet the person. that way every time, but in a different way every time. Fine. And also do it the same way every time, and then notice that it stinks each time they do it. But the way it will stink, it will stink a different way each time. You know, it was stale in a different way today than it was stale yesterday when I did it, or yes, this last second. It will be stale in different ways. It's not stale.

[68:45]

And once in a while, wow, what do you do? That can happen, you know. So vary it or make it the same, doesn't matter. Just like we go to Zazen. You ever go to the Zendo? You ever walk in there? Same door, right? Same steps. Every morning, walk in there. One, two, three, boom. People sit in there, hi. Same thing, every day different. And some days it's the same, and then it's stale. And they're really like, ooh, wasting my time. But there's other mornings where sure enough, same old thing, and it's just like, it's fresh. I mean, who's in charge of making it fresh? Some days, you know, like I said the other morning, The chanting was great. Do you people know why the chanting was great?

[69:48]

No, nobody knows. I don't know either. I don't know why. It was. And the next day, it wasn't. It was stale. It was trying to be very good. It was sort of like, oh, now we know how to do it. Let's do it again today. Now, of course, I had theories about why it was good that day. Good theories. Most of the other people, I bet 80% of people have the same theories. And then the people who had more interesting theories, they just pretend to be smarter than us. What clever. Mine were really boring theories. I wouldn't even mention them. That's why I quickly switched over to I don't know. I don't know was much more interesting than the theories I had. And also, I don't know is not chauvinistic.

[70:52]

Elitist, racist. It's got all this kind of aphthesia from all that stuff. What time is it? Oh, it's quoted now. So there's more stories, there's more background on this. So when he went to Nanshuan, Magu went to Nanshuan and he circled three times, and he stood at attention, Nanshuan said, wrong, wrong. there's an implication that, uh, not, not trying to saying this isn't fresh, you know, this is, you're carrying something, you know, uh, but, uh, did Nanchuan know that, maybe Magu is around a lot and does this all the time.

[71:57]

You know, he's got a bad rap, you know, here he comes with his short long free time standing at attention. And, uh, but, uh, How come Zhang Jing said, right, right, when Nanchuan said, wrong, wrong? You're asking me? Yeah. Well, first time, maybe it was fresh. Well, how do you know it was the first time? You don't. We don't, but probably was, otherwise they probably wouldn't have said that he did this all the time. A lot of these people went around like, there's this other guy who went to town, remember what's this guy's name? He went to town with his staff, and he walked into town and he said, I hid it in the dark, I hid it in the light, or when it's dark I hid it, when it's white I hid it. What is it? Discussed the way he came to town every day.

[72:58]

When they come in the light, I hit them in the light. Yes. When they come in the light, I hit them in the light. When they come in the dark, I hit them in the light. What is it? So, it's fairly likely that if he did that as a regular thing, they would have said, Magui had a habit of doing this. And then he went to see this guy, and this guy said, right. But probably that was the first time he did it. So what you're implying, you think that when he went to Nonchuan, he didn't know that he had gone to this other guy. You think that when he walked in on Nonchuan or walked around, Nonchuan intuited that he was wrong. Saw that he picked up that this was an awkward act. I think that human beings have the right here and now ability to spot one another human being bringing in packages. Uh-huh. Yeah, that doesn't mean that this guy was one of those human beings, right? No, it doesn't mean that. That's just our hypothesis.

[73:59]

That's your hypothesis. It's possible. It's a possibility that he was packing in his confirmation from the previous experience. And in fact, the commentator seems to think that, he says, because when the first time he did it, it was like when Longjia did it. I mean, when Longjia did it, it was like that. But he doesn't say that about the second time. There's something about carry. Yeah. He also says, it's almost like Nanquan and Zhengjing were in coots, like they had something understanding. Yeah. And there are stories like this where somebody goes, you know, one of the famous stories is about this guy comes to visit him and Dongshan goes to visit Guishan, Yongshan's teacher, and Dongshan says, I've heard about this teaching about... non-sentient beings expound in the Dharma, would you help me with it?" So he says, well, tell me about this, and he tells them about it, and he says, takes his whisk and goes, and Dungshan says, I don't get it.

[75:09]

He says, well, you know, you probably never get it from this face. But there's a guy over, you know, in the next province that you probably get, maybe you could respect him. So he walks quite a ways, and he goes to this other guy, and he said, what about this teaching of non-sentient beings He's following the dharma, and that guy takes his whisk. Now, did they have telegraph? Or is it just that these guys had these whisks? They didn't have these whisks. They often had these whisks, right? They had these whisks, and they had these things. These things here, and they had robes, and they had all various equipment they had. But in the first case, he didn't help. In the second case, he could respect what was happening. You mean with the wits? Yeah. Yeah, right. Not with the... In the first case, he did. In the second case, he didn't.

[76:09]

In the first case, he said, tell me more, teacher. And the teacher said, this mollusque that was born from my parents is never going to explain it to you. Okay. So you probably should leave, but I know somebody that you might be able to respect. In other words, you don't seem to be able to respect me, even though I'm the great Guishan, teacher of Yongshan, all that. But go see the Jungian. He's not so fancy or anything, but I think you might be able to like him. And he was right, he did. But he did exactly the same thing. He did almost exactly the same thing. And in both cases, after it happened, he said, what sutra did you get it from? And they both quoted a sutra, which had basically the same quotation from different sutras. You know, it's kind of interesting. I didn't grip that on this mouth. One of my parents will never explain it to you. I got a different feeling from that. I'm never going to explain it to you. You have to get it yourself. If I explain it to you, it's like taking it away from me. Anyhow, that's... That's there too.

[77:12]

My dog tied here. Look for him, too. A few possibilities are that you can have a connection with somebody to be able to understand. Yes. Or just that by the time he walked from one place to the next, enough time had elapsed in a way. Bringing apart what Blanche was saying is that he would get it later, just in terms of certain amount of time, honestly, pondering the question. Yes? When I read the story the first time, I realized that I was valuing the answer right, right more than the answer wrong, wrong. But in fact, they're both a meeting. And that to be right isn't better. than to be wrong if what you are is totally wrong.

[78:15]

That's right. That was his lesson, that was his gift, is that he got teachers to tell him both about the same, and he got the same position. Right. And I just want to say that there's a lot more subtlety in this story than we... We're just scratching the surface on this thing. And there's several more renditions here in the commentary on this story. And then, after all that, it says, if you want the frozen river to burst into flames and the iron tree to bloom into flowers, we need Tiantung's verse. Then we get the verse. So, I want to know if you people want to get out of here, if you want to use more of these words here, to get into more subtleties of this thing, or do you want to go to some other place called Case 17?

[79:15]

How many people want to stay on 16? How many people want to do 16 another week? How many people want to do 17 next week? Okay. What? I didn't vote. Who didn't vote? I didn't think so. I didn't vote. It's okay. So we're going to keep doing 16, okay? Please read it. Read it, please. So that you're familiar with the material, so you won't get... You don't get overwhelmed by the class. And make little diagrams and memorize each of the stories that are used to illustrate the thing. So you've got them in you. Yes? Then I have a question in terms of diagrams.

[80:22]

Luang Ja, who was a student of Wei Ning, but you said was of the same lineage as Ma and all those other guys. Is that right? Did he go off on the other side and Sagan Gyoshi's side? Lungjia was a disciple of six patriarchs. But we don't know who his disciples are. So all these people in this story that we have here, we know who their teacher is. So we know that he's not directly the teacher of any of the people in this story. But these people are still referring to that story. It's a famous story. That's one thing that's going on here, is they're referring to a story which is not directly in any of their lineages, but it's a story from which, about a relationship, that they are in a lineage relationship to that person, but they're not in that line. And when will a makeup class be, since we missed class last week?

[81:25]

It will be after all the classes are over. And how many classes do you think you'd get in this course, by the way? I want six. You do? Six. You're supposed to be six? Six. Well, then he says six, and you say six, and you say five, and you get an extra one. So you get what you think, and you get what you want, and you get more than you were expecting. Will you come to the sixth class? I wonder if I can't draw, but there's a lot of images here that would be nice if somebody would draw these scenes, you know, almost like cartoons of interactions, you know. I know people do that sort of song.

[82:27]

That would be nice. I'd like to see that. How about people getting together and learning your names and acting out some of these stories? There are several stories in here. There's one, there's really a cute one down below, you know, where the national teacher, Yang Byung Thong, said, Matsu is right, Nanchuan is wrong. That one, you know? And he said, and then the commentator says, this is just like when Hermit Yong of Dong Peak asked Seung Chee, I haven't seen you around for a long time. What have you been doing? And Seung Chee said, I recently saw the librarian way and found peace. That one. I'd like to see somebody act that out. You know? It's really a cute one, isn't it? Where people are running around laughing at each other, telling verses.

[83:27]

So it's like, there's four people. The librarian, sung, and the hermit, hermit young, sung, shin chi, and librarian way. Three people learn that story and act it out. So if you get some people to act out all these stories, they could do these stories, That would be quite good. Is that what you mean? Well, there's another person. There's another person. Master Naan. Oh, Master Naan, too. Four people. Four people, man. And Master Naan's got a verse. J-I-C-Y. [...] Just before the verse on that page. John, Master Naan. The C is there. Tzu. [...] Okay. Does that mean or do you mean something else? I think it would be very helpful if people would do that. And you could just say, okay, who's got that?

[84:33]

And if people want to, if some people do decide, get together for people to do that one, and some other people, there's also some dyad and triad ones, if people want to act these out, maybe you could tell me so that I could tell you that one's already taken. And you can duplicate it or do another one. So I'd appreciate that if you'd do that. That would be nice. You see, at the time that these stories were happening, the people were walking around telling these stories to each other. This was like in the latest news, right? This is like saying, and Kevin Mitchell ran back there and cocked that ball against the wall with his bare hand and threw it without moving all the way back to first base. These are the kind of things that people are saying, you know? The famous events, positive events in history of Zen were being told around the town. People were doing this kind of stuff. That's why he said, when Nan heard about this, he laughed. Somebody came back and told him about this.

[85:35]

Okay? So, this is part of... It's just like that catch that Willing Lane made at the... Yeah. That's some generation to come. So, okay. So we'll continue on case 16 another week. And if anybody wants to take up this kind of responsibility, you can tell me, or just go ahead and do it, of course. When you come to class, you can tell us we've got this down. We want to do it. Let's ask if anyone would like cardboard from the city. And if anybody wants to cardboard from Tracy. So anyway, the meditation instruction is quite simple.

[86:47]

Just all day long, please perceive this gaining and losing mind and examine birth and death, okay? Without even holding on to what that is, that meditation practice is. That's your state, and if you find that state, please bring that state to your nearest possible friend. And see if they're there too, and you can recognize each other. And then, this is called... Meeting. Meeting. This is called... living Buddha Dharma, right here on this planet. Oh, and by the way, Martha, did you remember the time? And was someone there to recognize you at that time?

[87:47]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_90.73