Are there any questions from previous meetings for Dr. Bregman? No questions. But I don't interfere with those I can't talk about. So, he asked about the story. Go ahead. The monk asked the teacher. What is within? The teacher said, rocks, tiles, or walls, tiles, and pebbles. And the monk said, in parentheses, well, if they're Buddhas,

[01:01]

if they can expound, if the walls, tiles, and pebbles are Buddhas, then can they expound the Dharma? Actually, he just said, oh, can they expound the Dharma then? And the teacher said, yes, they can. And they do so incandescently and without ceasing. They never stop. And then the monk said, well, why can't I hear these inanimate things expounding the Dharma? And the national teacher said, although you may not be able to hear it, don't hinder that which does hear it. And then the monk said, how about you? Do you hear it, Master? And he said,

[02:03]

if I could hear it, I would rank among the saints. And then the monk said, well, if you can't hear it, then how do you know it expounds it? And he said, if I could hear them, I wouldn't be able to help you. And you're wondering, you asked about, what about this business of not hindering that which hears it? If you look at the, am I speaking loudly enough? If you look at the floor, or a rock, we're not telling you that these inanimate objects, we're not talking about trees and grasses so much,

[03:10]

or living creatures, but actually inanimate objects, objects which do not do not do not actually commit karma on their own. But these things are expounding the Dharma. And we're saying, you may not be able to hear the Dharma coming from them, but don't hinder that which does hear them. So what does hear them? Everyone knows about them. As it turns out, we, individual creatures, are uniquely responsible for some things,

[04:12]

and some other things we're not uniquely responsible for. So I, and you and I, are uniquely responsible for our capacities, our sense capacities. The fact that we have, that we are living in our consciousness is tied up with the fact that we have sense capacities, that we have capacity to receive light, and receive sounds, and touches, and so on. The fact that this living creature has these abilities is due to the activity of this living creature only. And no one else is responsible for the fact that I can see or hear, and so on. But the existence of the light

[05:17]

colors, which I see, which I think I see, the existence of the sounds, and the smells, and the touchables, tangibles, these are not uniquely due to my activity. They are due to the collective activity of all living creatures over all time. The physical universe is not due only, the existence of the physical universe is not due only to the momentum of my karma, my action. What this means is that the arising of individual consciousness is an interaction between the physical universe, which is the effect of all living creatures' activity.

[06:19]

The physical universe is the effect of all living creatures' activity. And that physical universe can interact with an infinite number of individual sense capacities. When these individual sense capacities interact with the physical world, an individual consciousness arises out of that interaction. So when the effects of an individual karma, namely the sense capacities, interact with the effects of universal karma, namely the physical universe, that interaction gives rise to an individual consciousness. And that individual consciousness is then aware of this physical universe, these inanimate objects,

[07:23]

which are expounding the Dharma, but it may not be able to tell that they are expounding the Dharma. And if it can't tell that, the instruction is, don't hinder that which can, which does know that. Now, how can an individual karma, an individual consciousness, not interfere with that which does hear it? Well, one of the main ways that you don't interfere is to act towards physical objects as you would if you understood what comes to make them. In other words,

[08:25]

if you could appreciate even a little bit what it takes to make color before you're at this moment, what it takes to make a sound, all that goes into each moment of little bits of the physical world, if you could appreciate what goes into making that, you would be, what we call, you would be in awe of this physical phenomenon. In other words, you would hear the Dharma. If you can't hear the Dharma, if you can't see that this red shirt, that that cough, if you can't hear all that goes to making it, and thereby you don't hear the teaching of conditioned co-production

[09:27]

coming with that sound, then you should act towards it as you would if you knew. Namely, you should be very respectful of it. If you knew, you would be very respectful. And if you are very respectful, you do not hinder that which hears it. In other words, the human body that is very respectful of the inanimate world, the human body-mind complex that acts with great respect for the physical universe, does not hinder that which hears this physical universe expounding. It does not hinder it at all. As a matter of fact,

[10:28]

it actually, it's like, it's like you, like this poem, you know, the temple bell rings and it stops, and the flowers are still giving off the sound. So, if your body and mind show great respect for physical things, it's as though the Dharma that's being spoken is reaching into you, and the part of your body that manifests the respect totally hears. Some part of your intellectual mind doesn't hear.

[11:33]

Let that part step aside and let the rest of your body and mind act with great reverence and respect. Then, the body that hears, hears, and the mind doesn't get in the way. So, that's why we gotta show up to our sitting place, to each other, to walls, that's why we take care of things. And, this tradition which, this tradition of teaching which we have here, with Kabuki Roshi, and Suzuki Roshi, and Hashimoto Roshi, and Kishizawa Iyan Roshi, these, this lineage emphasizes taking care of the physical world.

[12:38]

For example, there are many examples. One example is, one time I was having morning tea with Suzuki Roshi in San Francisco, and we sat on the Zabutans like this in his room, to have tea, and put the Zabutans down, and I moved one of the Zabutans with my feet. And he turned to another monk and said, sort of yelled at him a little bit, he said, do not push these Zabutans around with our feet. And he didn't understand why he was talking to him that way. But I did. So, since that time I have not been pushing these Zabutans around with my feet. So, I don't understand, I don't hear the Dharma.

[13:41]

I don't hear the Dharma. But, my feet do. And I don't hinder my feet by kicking the Zabutans. And if I hear, if I would hear the Dharma, that would interfere with my activity, actually. So, I don't hear it. But I try, as much as... I try to not hinder that which does hear it, namely my body. So, I try to attract it. But I don't do very... Often times I do hinder it, slam things around. So... Do you have any questions? Anything else? Do you have questions you want to start with? So... I...

[14:45]

You may say I'm repeating myself. That I'm saying something I said before. So, now I'd like to repeat myself. Do you allow me to repeat myself? There are these two sides, you know. The one side of discipline, and the other side which is beyond discipline. And... Last night I was talking to some people about dancing, and I thought of another wonderful example of discipline, and going beyond discipline. An example, not that I thought of, but the example I saw, was Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Do you know Fred Astaire? Fred Astaire, do you know him? Fred Astaire, do you know him? The dancer? He's...

[15:51]

Maybe people think he's the greatest American dancer, some people feel. And he had... In the 1930's he had a dancing partner named Ginger Rogers. Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. They made a lot of movies where they danced. And... They often danced, but he often wore, you know, very formal like tuxedos, and very dressed up in shiny shoes, and she dressed in a full gown and high heels. And they would dance on these floors that were like glass, black glass, very, very slippery. One, you know, almost no one could walk across these floors, not to mention dancing. And... Ginger Rogers said that she often would slip, actually, and she often had all kinds of bruises all over her feet. And one time I saw recently a friend of mine,

[16:52]

he's a Zen student in San Francisco, he was also in E.T. And... He rented a film of Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, and in the film there's a section where they did this one dance and they did it in slow motion so you could see more clearly their activity. And one of the first things that you saw, or that I noticed, was that Ginger Rogers' feet almost never touched the ground. She just occasionally tipped over and touched on the glassy floor. Most of the time she was just flying and just occasionally touched the floor. But... Fred Astaire's feet were completely planted, completely solid, every step perfectly set down, like an elephant foot, but a quick and light elephant foot.

[17:56]

And with this tremendous base of discipline in his feet, she could just simply fly around that. Her just flying, of course, would be ridiculous. And she would just become hurt. And his flying, the way he was dancing without her, if he did those same dancing steps, it wouldn't be very interesting, actually, if you watch him. The way he danced when he was with her was not the way he would dance when he was alone. But the combination of the two was like Buddha's way. The dance is something not like neither one of them. It's something between the two. For both of them just to be flying wouldn't be very interesting, and for both of them to be solidly planted in their feet wouldn't be so interesting. But for one to be totally grounded and the other one to fly, this is really magical.

[18:57]

And this is what it's like when the special transmission outside the scriptures, completely grounded and completely free, both fly. So this wonderful dance comes out of this discipline and beyond discipline. And it's not so common, actually. Almost no one learns how to be so completely grounded that someone else can trust them that much. So from that point we go off to discuss, we've discussed frugality. And from there we went to discuss the issue of the supple mind, which is discussed in section 32.

[20:01]

The supple mind of the Buddhists. The supple mind of the ancestors. This supple mind, you can see in a copy, it's called, in Japanese it's called Nyu-Nam-Shin. Nyu-Nam-Shin. And both those characters, the first two characters mean soft, flexible, pliant, these kinds of things. Supple. Supple mind. Now, this supple mind is the mind that says to negotiate, practice and confirm in realization the Buddhas and ancestors dropping off of body and mind.

[21:05]

This is the soft or supple mind. And I believe in another one, it says a little differently, which is at that point interesting, it says the will of the Buddhas and ancestors to drop body and mind is meekness of mind. So, that's another dimension of it. It's flexible but also meek. Not just soft, but also meek. And meek is related to supple too. And supple is related to also supplicant or supplication. Weakness, meekness, giving in, giving up. So this is another interplay

[22:06]

of being quite strong, having the determination to get yourself into a situation that will be so intense that you will have to surrender. So what Buddhas do is they organize their life, organize their body and mind so that they get themselves into a situation where they have nothing, where there's nothing they can do but give up. In other words, they get their body and mind in a situation where there's only one thing they can do with it and that's drop it. It takes great determination,

[23:07]

precision and care to get yourself in that situation. It takes... it's a rare opportunity to finally manage to get yourself into that place. When you sit with your legs crossed on a zafu, for example, for one hour or even a few minutes but certainly a week or a year or whatever and you sit there and you don't move. If you stay there, eventually, there will only be one thing you can do and that is drop the body and mind which is sitting. If you move away from that spot, if you wiggle, if you look away, if you leave the room, well, then you won't have to do it. You will escape. Okay? But if you stay there, you will function so fully, so fully

[24:12]

that body and mind will be dropped. So body and mind dropped is the complete function in the most intense place. So the the sort of archetypical or prototypical situation in which we place ourselves is literally our sitting posture. But when we're not sitting with our legs crossed in this wonderful yogic situation, then throughout the day we have to keep turning towards that place. That place in which so much is coming together upon us that we have to let go. We can't be hard. We can't be strong. Our strength is what brings us to be in that place. We use our strength to get there. We use our heroic energy to get ourselves in a situation so that we can be weak.

[25:14]

And it says, and that's what it says here, you see. It says, let me see, it says something. It says, the Zazen of the Arhats and Pratyekabuddhas, although it is not a Zazen, they are attached to the flavor of meditation, relaxed, great compassion. Now, they're pretty good, these disciples and these Pratyekabuddhas, these solitary Buddhas. In other words, they meditate and they have pretty enjoyable meditation. They're good enough to actually have bliss in their sitting and they're even better than that, but they don't attach to this to this enjoyment. They even let go of the enjoyment of meditation. However, they lack great compassion, which, I'm suggesting, means

[26:23]

they're not sitting in the right place. They're sitting out on the edge of the world someplace. They're not sitting in the center of their own body. They're not sitting in the center of their own family. They're not sitting in the center of their own community. They're sitting off to the side. Therefore, although they have quite good meditation practice, they do not have compassion. Now, this sets them apart from the Zazens of the Buddhas and ancestors, in which, vowing, they plunge into unknown space to save all sentient beings, places great compassion in the foremost. That's what characterizes the sitting of the Buddha. The Buddha not only sits, but the Buddha said, Where can I sit that I'll be closest to the most suffering

[27:24]

creatures? That's most important to me. We read last time, too, that there are many things, but to skip a ways, as for the Buddhas and ancestors, from the very first awakening of the religious mind, they take a vow to gather all the various Buddha dharmas. Therefore, in their Zazen, they do not forget or forsake any sentient being. In other words, they're sitting someplace that they can remember all kinds of sentient beings. They do not forsake one, down to even the tiniest insect. And it's not so much that these Buddhas and ancestors are well, in one sense they like insects, right? But it's not

[28:25]

so much that they ... It's more like they need the insects to feel that they're in the right place. If you don't have the insects, too, that you're caring about, it's not ... you can still ... you can still be strong. But when you even add little insects in, you can't make it anymore. I mean, in San Francisco we have a lot of cockroaches. If you really include the cockroaches, it's really hard. It's hard to hold on to something, to grasp something. Okay? Again, they give them compassionate regard at all times. Vowing to save them save them all

[29:28]

and turning over to them every merit they acquire. That is the reason why the Buddhas and ancestors have always found the world found in the world of desiring negotiating the way. They're always found in the world of desire, negotiating the way. And the other one is saying, the other translation is very similar, but it says for this reason the Buddhas and ancestors always sit in meditation and pursue the way in the realm of desire in the kama doctrine. That's where they sit. And not only that, but regarding Jambudvipa as the only region of the realm of desire. They cultivate all merits and attain the uniqueness or suppleness of mind. In order to save sentient beings you have to have this flexible mind in order to save sentient beings. You have to have this

[30:30]

supplicant mind in order to save sentient beings. But most of us, maybe none of us can develop this thorough, ungrasping way unless we place ourselves in the middle of the fire. If we don't stay in the middle of the fire we still can hold out. We still think we can maybe make life work. Maybe I can still win. And again, as I said, if you think that you can take care of yourself and even maybe help somebody else you can't help other people. That's just arrogance due to the small scope

[31:33]

of where you live. That you live in a little tiny world or that you live in a big world but off to the edge where nobody notices you and nobody expects anything of you and nobody needs you. Then you can think, oh, I can... One word that is a difficult word we have to be very careful of in Buddhism in America, or Buddhism as we use English, is the word accept. When we say accept or just accept or something like that, or even totally accept people in America think that we mean

[32:35]

to be passive and just give up to not do anything. And yet, accepting or acceptance we can understand it as that it means it's an extremely energetic state. It's not passive. But it's more like this more like this suppleness. So to accept suffering is to totally exert suffering. To let suffering

[33:43]

have its full effect like a bamboo is not passive when the snow is building up on the leaves it's not passive at all. Even though it's bending, it's still making a big effort and something's holding that snow up. But when it drops, when the snow touches the bamboo leaf it goes down a little bit. The fact that it goes down is a total exertion of the snow. It's a full expression of the snow, that's like although you may not be able to hear the snow expounding the Dharma don't hinder that which hears it. What hears it? This. This. When the snow hits your arm

[34:45]

your arm goes down that's the sound of snow falling. That's the snow, this is the snow expounding the Dharma. Your arm shows it. Your leaves going down. That's acceptance but it's also an exertion. It's an exertion of your whole life force to hold that snow up. This is not easy. It's all I can do. When the snow weighs a certain amount, the total exertion is the same as dropping body and mind. So total acceptance of this much snow is like this. The total acceptance of more snow is like this. The total acceptance of more snow is like this.

[35:47]

And when I have the maximum load of snow the total exception is like this. But what follows the total exception? This. And what's this? This. This coming up again is being with all people. Once you go all the way down you can be with everyone. But until you go all the way down you can't really be with people. You can't really help people. You can't really help people. In other words, until you completely accept people in their difficulty you can't help them with their difficulty. You can do something

[37:01]

but it's not really Buddhist help until you completely accept them. If you completely accept someone, if you completely accept someone they can feel it. They can feel that you have great respect for them as they are. And when you speak to the person when they say someone who, someone very wise is speaking to me someone who completely accepts me is speaking to me we think that people who think we're completely alright the way we are we think such people are wise and we are right.

[38:01]

They are. And when people who completely accept us as we are speak to us, we listen as best we can. But if people don't accept us we know they're not wise. And even though they tell us to do wonderful things like please sit zazen, please be kind, please sweep the floor, please take care of your mother, please give us your money. If they don't accept us, they're not wise. We don't listen to them. We can't trust them. Because they don't accept us. It is possible to accept a person completely and still dance with them. It's possible

[39:04]

to accept a person completely and still say do that. But you don't say it from the point of view of something's wrong with this person and now they should do this and then they'll be right. You just naturally have something to do with them. You're just interested in doing something. And whatever that is could sound, it could seem very strict. It would be alright. But if a person is trying to jump out of the window or they say I'm going to jump out of the window you can totally accept them and walk over and pull them away from the window

[40:05]

without any feeling of not accepting that they're walking over towards the window and that they're saying things like I'm going to jump out the window. You completely accept it. You don't want them to be any different and you take a hold of them and pull them away from the window. It's like 1, 2, 3 over to the window 1, 2, 3, back away from the window. It's like that. Then it's just a dance. But if it's 1, 2, 3 and now they're doing a wrong thing then it's just a waste of everybody's time. It may be stopping them from jumping out the window but nobody learns anything and the person may be just more discouraged because here they put themselves way out to put on this big show and they didn't learn anything from it. They made this great offer

[41:13]

and it's been refused. When we teach children how to do certain things like ride a bicycle we teach the children maybe we teach the children because we already love them. We already think they're just fine the way they are Here they are 6 years old or 7 years old they don't know how to ride a bicycle we feel perfectly fine about that. They're a wonderful person. And we can teach them how to ride a bicycle and to watch this wonderful person learn how to do anything is wonderful. It's a great thrill. But sometimes in the process of teaching them how to ride a bicycle we forget that they're wonderful and we think there's something wrong with them because they don't know how to ride a bicycle. We forget. But it is possible to remember

[42:15]

while they're learning how to ride a bicycle that they were alright before they knew how. And this process isn't going to make them a better person but if they learn how to ride a bicycle that's wonderful. It's a wonderful thing. There's no problem with that. But can we remember that not only they're alright before but in the middle of being a person who's learning how to ride a bicycle that person is also perfectly fine. Can we remember that? We often slip and forget that in the middle of the process of learning something. Especially if we do that with our relatives. With our own children or with our husbands and wives with our parents.

[43:16]

Do you know what I mean? Usually a husband can't teach the wife how to ride a car or how to drive a car or or vice versa. A wife can't teach a husband how to speak Japanese or something. . . .

[44:39]

Burn. On 7 Buddhist cushion. Now this is the easy chair my master passed to me. Center. Center. Center. Now to it. Head up. Eyes straight. So firm on 7 Buddhist cushion in the center. Figure out how to get yourself into the center. Suffering is our greatest

[45:46]

treasure. Our greatest friend. The only problem is that we don't have enough of it. . . . The people who don't have enough of it are complain. Complain and blame. . . . People who have enough of it ask for more. So which kind are we?

[46:57]

Do we have enough? If we have enough, that means we want more. So if you want more, you have enough. But you don't just want more. You have to do something about it. You can't just say, Yes, I want more. That means I'm one of the ones who have enough. That if you feel like you want more, please give me more responsibility. Please, more people ask me to help. That's right. But then you have to act on it. You have to get yourself in a situation where that can happen. Don't just think it. Now put yourself out. Let people know that you feel that way. Volunteer to do some little thing. To help somebody. Make yourself vulnerable when you feel that way. Don't wait. Act on it as soon as you can.

[48:00]

And if you feel like you have enough and you don't want any more, then that means you don't have enough. You're in trouble if you think you've got enough and you can't take any more. In that case, you need some help. Someone needs to skillfully encourage you to take on more. It's not good to not want more. More problems, take care of more things. That means you're discouraged. But if you would just take on more than you have now,

[49:05]

the discouragement you feel would be dropped. You would drop the present discouragement that you have if you would just take on more. Which basically just means it's like it's just like, you know, if you've got a little bit, just go. Just make it a little bit harder. A little bit harder. Then you go to the next step. Do you know what I mean? But I don't mean that if you're burning up that then you turn the heat up so that you'll jump out. That's what we sometimes do, right? It gets a little hot, turn the heat up and then we leave. I don't mean that. I mean the way you can turn the heat up, think of the way you can turn the heat up

[50:07]

that you wouldn't leave. Some way that you can stay with it. Again, as Rilke says, when are we going to lovingly let go of our lovers and stand it? People let go of their lovers and then don't stand it all the time. When are you going to let go of your lover, let go of the beloved and stand it, and take it? It doesn't do much good

[51:15]

to let go and then not take it and then run away from it. Don't point it off. Might as well keep it. Keep it and then later you can let go of it. Keep the stuff until you're ready to lovingly let go in such a way that you can stand it and you can stay there. That you can stand it. OK? It's almost time unless somebody has some other comments. This is the supple.

[52:19]

Talking about the supple body and mind. OK. I pray for love of all men in

[53:21]

Greece and in Europe too. I pray for love of men in Europe too. I pray all men in Greece and in Europe too. I

[54:24]

pray for of men in Greece and in Europe too. I pray all men in Greece Europe too. I pray for love of all men in Greece and in too. I pray for all men in and in Europe too.

[55:23]

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