the three pure precepts, okay? Which are, and there's different versions of them. The oldest one is to avoid or refrain from non-virtue, or evil, to practice all good, and to purify the mind. So on the first level of avoiding all evil, it just, in some sense, that refers to the ten great precepts.

[01:22]

Not killing, not stealing, not intoxicating, not lying, not misusing sexuality. Which the other way around is not misusing sexuality, not lying, not intoxicating. And not speaking of others' faults, not praising self at the expense of others, not being possessive, not being angry, and not abusing the three treasures. So that's one way to understand what it means to avoid evil. And in the realm of doing something or not doing something, looking at the precept of avoiding evil from that point of view, that means if you think you can do something or not do something, then don't do those things.

[02:44]

Don't do anything that would cause harm in those ways. Yet or however, in the realm of doing things, if you watch carefully, I think you might be able to see that if you think you can do something or not do something, then in fact, I'm jumping way out to say this, but anyway, in fact, then you violate these precepts all the time. So at the level of where you think you can do something, first of all, at the level of where you think you can do something, in some sense you violate the precepts all the time, just thinking that way.

[03:51]

But put that aside for just a second, or for even longer than a second, then just think about in the realm where you can do something or not do something, then how could you possibly not kill? if you think about it all the way through. So if killing has some limit on it, then I guess you would say, well, I'm not going to kill any people. But maybe I'll kill something else, something else. Maybe I'll kill dogs and cows. Well, in some sense, I think that's, again, not thinking all the way through on this precept. This precept, in terms of doing and not doing, I personally don't see how you can, like, kill some things and think that you're following that precept in the realm of doing or not doing.

[05:05]

So I just put that out for right away, something kind of, something maybe provocative. Do you have some comments? About what I just said? I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Well, for example, do you think you killed anything today? Yeah, I probably stepped on something. Okay, is anybody here who didn't kill anything today? Hmm? Yes? I don't think I killed you. You don't think you did? I killed microbes in the breeze. Pardon? I killed microbes in the breeze. You killed microscopic microbes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So, some people would say, what this means, what this precept of killing means is that you don't kill anything intentionally. But if you kill things accidentally, then that's not violating this precept. Some people would say that. Okay?

[06:09]

That would be some people's interpretation. Well, it just isn't possible not to kill. It's not possible not to kill. Well, you know, I said in the realm of doing and not doing, it's then I think you would kill things in that realm. I don't see how you would not. If you make some rule like, well, if you don't mean to, but then I think the problem with that is that then if you kill things unconsciously then it's okay, I didn't mean to. Like I do say I didn't mean to. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. Well, I think it's good to say you're sorry, but still, does that mean that when you say you're sorry that you didn't do it? Like killing something very small and you're accidentally just reaching up and killing a mosquito, not really kind of knowing it was there, or sort of half-awarely killing the mosquito. Now, I think maybe many people would agree that to kill the mosquito with the feeling of, I really want to kill the mosquito and I wish, I hope it suffers.

[07:19]

It seems like that would be worse than just sort of like just killing without that real vengeful feeling, right? I would say it's worse. The former would be worse. But in Buddhism, actually, in one treatment of the precept of... in terms of classifying unwholesomeness in Buddhism, in the early Buddhist treatment, to do something unwholesome unconsciously is worse than to do it consciously. In other words, first-degree murder is not as bad as to murder and then be unconscious while you're doing it. I shouldn't say first degree, premeditated, at the time of killing anyway, to be unconscious that you're doing it is worse than being somewhat conscious. Of course, you can't be too conscious and kill things. So I just wondered if everybody is comfortable with the idea that although, like Dick said, he didn't kill anything today, but maybe we should talk to him about this a little bit.

[08:27]

He thinks he didn't kill anything. So do you feel, for example, that you allowed any killings to occur? No. Right. So how close would a killing have to get to you before you would feel like you allowed it? I'd perceive it in some way. You know, I'd be conscious that something's afoot. I mean, mosquitoes there were... well like for example what about we actually I believe not too long ago I was right nearby when it happened this state gassed a guy over on the other side of the hill and I was quite aware of it I mean I wasn't in the room but I was right outside and you know I was protesting it but even though I was protesting it in some sense I was allowing it too wow hmm? wow

[09:27]

I didn't stop it. But in fact, it's impossible for you to stop it. It was impossible for me to stop it. Well, I don't know if it's impossible for me to stop it. You could watch some other thing happen. You could watch somebody closer, like you watch a big guy kill some little guy, and you could say it was impossible for me to stop that big guy. So if I say it's impossible for me to stop the murders that are happening, does that then mean that I'm not implicated? Well, I have more trouble, I have less trouble with the Sam Clinton example than if you said, you know, I witnessed a big guy kill a little guy. Because I might have said, well, why didn't you move the run at him? Yeah, I might say that to you, too. Right, precisely. I might say, why aren't you over in San Francisco right now stopping people from murdering each other? Why are you letting people in San Francisco commit murders tonight? Well, you made that decision, and so have I. In other words, I am... I would like to say, well, people are murdering each other in San Francisco or, you know, Bakersfield or whatever.

[10:29]

That's probably happening tonight. There will be some murders in this state, quite a few. And, of course, I can't be in all places at once. Therefore, I'm not responsible. Because I'm not connected to those murderers. I'm not part of their thing. I'm separate from it. I'm not a Green Gulch. But we are. That's what I'm saying, you know, you go a certain point and then you say, no, I'm not responsible. Like Zen Center, even Zen Center has done some things which people feel abused by. And when I hear that, I feel like, you know, Zen Center was not so... I mean, I shouldn't say Zen Center was not so, but that person felt like Zen Center was not so. That person felt abused or untaken care of by Zen Center. I'm somewhat responsible for what Zen Center does, even though I wasn't a member of that committee that made that decision which trashed this person from his point of view. So, I guess it's the... In the realm of doing things and not doing things...

[11:40]

Well, to some extent what I'm saying is that the more I look at the realm of doing and not doing, the more I feel like I am violating those precepts all the time in that realm. And you may say, well, you didn't murder anybody today, but aren't you part of a government organization? of a nation that does harm in the world? Doesn't drinking coffee, in some sense, isn't that connected in some ways with drug deals and murders? Aren't you connected? Now, what about the thought, I want to kill? Did you think that thought today? Maybe you didn't think that thought. So in that sense, maybe you didn't violate that precept. Yes? Is it possible to violate that precept in the other realm, though? Mm-hmm. Is it possible to violate that precept at the other realm, the Absolute? We're talking about rolling now?

[12:50]

Yeah, is it possible in the realm where you don't do anything, is it possible to violate the precepts? No. It's not. But let's stay away from that area for a little while. Do Buddhists violate the precepts of bodhisattvas before they become Buddha's? They exist in this realm. I think bodhisattvas have a practice called confession, don't they? What are they confessing? Are they confessing things that are so minor that they don't even come up to the level of violating a precept? Don't bodhisattvas sometimes violate the precepts? Don't they sometimes say, gee, the way I put that was kind of like a little bit kind of praising myself at the expense of another, maybe a little bit.

[13:52]

Maybe that wasn't quite true what I just said. Maybe I just told a lie. Maybe I just portrayed myself in such a favorable light that I put down some other people and also sort of misrepresented the situation. Maybe I took something which wasn't really given just now or sometime recently. And also, I would also suggest just pushing these things for discussion, that if you violate one precept, you violate others or all of them. in the realm where you're doing something, it's pretty likely that you might notice that you're violating one of the precepts in there. Because one of the precepts is, you know, to abuse the three treasures. So did anybody abuse Buddha today at all?

[14:57]

In any way? Did anybody abuse the Sangha in any way? Did anyone like think of some Sangha member and kind of think, Well, that Sangha member kind of is a little bit off track there, I think. That Sangha member wasn't really on the bimaru on this one. Well, when you think that, you kind of abuse the Sangha treasure. And also you kind of slander somebody. You don't necessarily say it out loud, but maybe you even said something out loud which kind of implied a little bit that the person... And maybe you kind of thought, well, I'm actually a little bit sharper than that. And then maybe you took to yourself, you took something, you know, something that wasn't really given to you. Could you even have misused sexuality on that? In some subtle way? Now, someone might also say, look, you're just carrying this too far. Well, I understand that one might think that, but for the sake of discussion, why not take it all the way?

[16:04]

Because if you stop, what is the reason for stopping the discussion? Why would you stop at a certain point? So that by not thinking about it anymore you would come to the conclusion that you didn't violate the precept? Yes? I think that the violation of the precept has more to do with having an intention More than just, you know, as one person, I can't be everywhere. You can't? That's right. I can't have an intention to do something that could be harmful. You could have an intention to do harm. Or an intention not to do harm. Right. And I think that's where the precept...

[17:07]

Maybe that's where the precepts really lie, what it really means to me. Yeah, it's very important. That's why I said the other day, you know, think about your motivation before you do something. Right. So that the intention is not that you hit a mosquito and kill it so much as... And that would be an intention. That would be an intention. But by accident, if I walk along the road, I kill untold microbes. Does that mean I don't walk? Yeah, does it mean you don't walk? Some people would think it means you don't walk. Because they would try to... There is a sect that kind of sweeps... Well, the Buddhists also... Originally, Buddhist monks walked barefoot to help them be more... not to squash bugs. So, maybe it's a matter of a level of intention.

[18:17]

What do you mean, a level of... A level of, you know, being ready to accept something more severe in terms of my own behavior? Ready to accept something more severe? What do you mean? Ready to accept something more... I'm formulating as I'm going along. When I'm ready to accept the next step for me, it's sort of a natural process of going from one to the next. In other words, I may not be ready to accept walking barefoot. Yes. Maybe at some level down the road when my pack steepens and I see something that I didn't see now, I can then accept that and maybe I'll go barefoot.

[19:20]

Yeah, maybe you will, right. But let's go back to the example of your intention, all right? So, today, some of you, perhaps, did not have the intention today, and throughout your whole day, maybe none of you had the intention, I want to kill something. Certainly, if you think, I want to kill something, that is violating a precept, isn't it? Just to think that you want to kill something violates a precept in the level of thought, in any way. All right? To actually want to kill something. Certainly that's a kind of unwholesome, under almost all circumstances, that's kind of an unwholesome thought. It's kind of an evil thought, right? Yes, David? What if you can't help that thought from coming up? What if you can't help the thought from coming up? Your brain's going to naturally sink and thoughts are going to come up based on

[20:21]

things you may have seen or stimuli or psychologically things may just pop into your mind. Right. Kind of like you're a little bit of an old puppet, aren't you? A little bit of a mannequin, a puppet. Kind of you're walking along and suddenly the thought comes up, I don't want to kill that thing. That happens, right? You can't help it. So what if you can't? Can you say, well, I couldn't help it so therefore I'm sorry I didn't violate the precept? No, you couldn't help but violate the precept. That's what it means. Is that what you said? What if you can't help it? I thought you said, what if you can't help it? No, I thought you said, what if you can't help it? Right. So, if you can't help it, then you can't help but break the precept. And I basically, that's a proposal I'm putting out there, is that you can't help but break the precept. And the level of you're doing something or not doing something, still... Still, I say to you, and I practice this way myself as much as I can, before you do something, stop and look at your motivation.

[21:30]

And if your motivation is unwholesome or cruel, then try not to carry it any further. All right? If your motivation is good, consider doing it as soon as possible. All right? However, If you still, if you, even if you stop yourself at that time from, from, you know, acting on this unwholesome thought, it still is the case that you can't help but violate the precept, even though you should check and try not to act on unwholesome thought, and you should as much as possible keep track of your motivations, and try not to act on things that you don't think are good, However, even though you do that practice and that practice is good, that practice is good, that's a good thing to do, still, it doesn't stop you from getting involved in evil if you think you can do something.

[22:32]

The key thing is, if you're involved in thinking you can do something, then you think other people can do things and you're caught in a situation where you are, I suggest, you are implicated in evil if you think you can do something and you think other people can do something. you will find yourself in situations where you can't help but violate the precepts. Even so, I still would recommend, and I think it is recommended that you still consider your motivation, and part of the reason for considering your motivation is to have the deeper revelation of the fact that you can't help but violate the precepts. In other words, that as a human being, you are helpless You are helpless to avoid evil. And we vow to avoid evil, and we're helpless to avoid it simultaneously. So what do you do with that?

[23:38]

Okay, so we have a question. So what do you do with that? Andrea? Yes. Well, you know, life is so hideously complex. that it seemed to me that as one understands the world in which they live with greater nuance or subtlety, that the nature of violation of precepts would also be an evolving kind of thing. Yes. That it's living... Is this my tea? Was this given to me? Who gave it to me? Did you? How come there's no... Oh, I see there's more water over there. Just got it going a little bit here. Thank you. Yes? Did I say anything? Did I interrupt you? And so... I think you violated a couple of precepts. But that's not to say I'm a witness. But it seems to me... Well, I think that you've... There was a dynamic theory that was somehow...

[24:43]

putting yourself above me in a way. That was exceedingly subtle and crafty and elegant. But back to my point, it seems to me that the way I look at precepts is that they're an evolving checkpoint in terms of my own awareness and how I move through life. They're an evolving checkpoint. Yeah, like I said at the beginning of class, is there like a trellis? Yeah. Right? A trellis is a checkpoint for a wisteria. It checks the trellis. Trellis, hello, are you here? Yes. Okay, and then what does the wisteria do? It breaks the precept of the trellis. Right? By doing this thing which the trellis didn't tell it to do. It goes... And then it checks the trellis again. It goes... So, yeah, the precepts are checkpoints. Check the precept. Okay, ready?

[25:44]

Get set. Precepts. Hello. How am I doing on the precepts? Am I killing anything? Am I... You know? But it would seem that they, in a way, would be harder to keep... The greater your awareness, the more pitfalls in terms of really... Correct, though. Correct. The greater your awareness, the more pitfalls. That's why I'm saying, that's why I suggested right away, I put out a great awareness at the beginning of class, okay? I said, I proposed an awareness where you would see you're constantly breaking the precepts. But nobody's perfect. Pardon? Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect, but a lot of people think they are. Well, you're wrong. And the people who think they're perfect are people whose awareness isn't very developed. Okay? What? It's okay with me. It's okay with me what? I agree. You agree with me, yeah.

[26:45]

I do too. I say people who think that they never violate the precepts don't have very much awareness of their human nature. Because human beings are helpless. Because human beings are driven to do things by their thoughts. Like, you know, I think that's Kirk, I think he's behaving properly, therefore, I let him sit there. You know? Or, but if I see, you know, Leslie and suddenly she's not behaving properly, I may think, well, we gotta, you know, get Leslie under control, folks, here. I'm not gonna do it myself, you know, but I'll have some other people come in and get her under control. Therefore, I'm not gonna dirty my hands with her restraining her when she gets out of line, according to my perceptions. But in fact, once I think something is happening at a certain point, my thoughts, I'm going to think they're real and I'm going to act on them at a certain point. As a matter of fact, we're always acting on our thoughts which we think are real, which aren't real.

[27:46]

That's human nature. We're helpless. We're driven like little, you know, robots. Not even robots. We're driven like little puppets, like little mannequins by our thoughts. And we're driven by them because we think they're true. So some people would come in here. There are people in the world who would come in here and think that this assembly is a meeting of the devil. And they would be very upset with us. And if they could get by with it, they would eliminate us. Huh? Well, I don't know who. I don't know who. Maybe there aren't such people. But I have this feeling that there are some people who would think we're so far off track that we should be rectified. We should be straightened out. And if necessary, by force. Some of you women, for example, some of your choices you've made, some people think that you should be restrained in your choices because you're off. Right? And some of those people who think that, they think that they never violate any precepts and that they know what is true.

[28:54]

But as you become more aware, you realize that you yourself are not actually able to judge accurately what is, by yourself, what is good and what is bad. And you can't tell what other people are up to, actually. Although you can make some darn good guesses, like when you guessed about me breaking a precept, you were right, because I am always breaking that precept. So, you know, if you ever guess that, you'll be right. But it's not because you can tell what I'm up to. Now, your question is, what do you do? Right? What do you do? Okay. Okay. I still think it's really a nice practice, although you don't have to do it, and I know, I've suggested it to people, and I know they don't follow my suggestion, of checking your motivation before you do things, and seeing if it's wholesome. It's a good thing to do. But not very many people want to do it. But still, it's a good thing to do, and I recommend it. It's fun. It's like, I also recommend jumping rope. Carefully. So you don't trip and hurt yourself. But anyway, but more important than that, what I would suggest is that you observe what's happening.

[30:02]

And I think one of the things you'll probably discover early on as you start observing is you'll start observing, well, I don't know when it'll happen, but eventually, I hope, and I think you might be able to start noticing that you're, in some sense, you're violating some of these precepts. Because that's the way it looks. Now, once you can identify that you're violating a precept, in some sense, you're starting to cook. Actually, you're doing pretty well when you can start identifying that you're violating a precept. Because you've figured out, I think, to some extent, that you're in the realm of doing things and not doing things. Which is, in fact, I think, where a lot of people live, as far as I can tell. It's called karma, the world of karma. Most of us visit that realm occasionally, at least, and some of us are there a good share of the time. If you notice that you're committing karma, you're starting to wake up. Now, if you notice not only you're doing karma, but you're doing some unwholesome karma, some non-virtuous things, you're waking up even more.

[31:09]

It's not that Buddha is somebody sitting there saying, oh, well, I never commit any... I never do any karma. I'm not deluded. And therefore... and therefore I don't commit any errors. That's not where Buddha operates. Buddha is in the realm of noticing not other people's errors, but her own. Her own delusions. And if you're deluded, how could you help but commit unwholesome acts? It's pretty hard to not commit unwholesome acts when you're deluded, because if you're deluded, even if you check your motivation, Since you're deluded, you can say, well, I think this is actually good motivation, but you're deluded, so it's not necessarily correct that your motivation is wholesome or virtuous. But still, it has been recommended by people who have understood delusion and become Buddhas, it has been recommended that you check your motivation. Even though it's a deluded person checking, and you're going to helplessly make an error when you check.

[32:18]

But the more you check... in a deluded way, the closer you're getting to realizing that your checking is also deluded. That you're deluded about checking, you're deluded about not checking, you're just like super deluded and super anxious. Like, not super, just plain, kind of basically, pervasively deluded. This is where Buddha operates. Buddha does not operate in the realm where, geez, that was nice, I had a break from my delusion. I wasn't deluded there for a second. That was nice. Wow, for once. And actually, I'm sure I wasn't. He just broke a whole bunch of precepts by thinking that way. But let's not talk about that. Let's just say that you actually think that you weren't deluded. Thinking that you're not deluded. Not being deluded is not delusion, by the way. Okay? It's not that you're never not deluded. You are not deluded, too, all the time. You're pervasively not deluded. But thinking that you're not deluded is a delusion, for sure.

[33:21]

which we often think. We're building up to what to do, okay? What to do is be aware of your delusions. Be aware, and be aware that delusions lead to evil. The basis of evil action is delusion. For example, one of the delusions which a number of us have is that we're separate beings. We have the delusion that somebody else could violate a precept and I could see them do it. And that I would be separate from their violation of the precept. Because I'm separate from them. So since I'm separate from them, if they violate a precept, then it's not my problem, it's their problem. Right? This view of the world is based on the delusion, the delusion, the fundamental delusion that we're separate. And somebody else can commit evil And I can sit there and watch them and not be implicated because they're not me. Now, the other way around, maybe, although we're separate, if I commit evil, you're partly responsible.

[34:29]

We're also able to do that while continuing to believe we're separate. Matter of fact, it's your fault that I'm committing evil. Somehow we do that. Isn't that neat? And your fault in causing me to commit evil, actually, I have no part in. Have you ever seen that one happen? we're actually capable of that of committing evil and blaming somebody else and actually having to take away our evil like so like what you did to me is what I did in response to the thing you did to me it was evil but it was inconsequential compared to what you did the fact that I killed that guy for what he did to me is nothing compared to what he did to me right people think like that have you seen that one there's movies about that And everybody goes, yeah, good, you know, murdering him was nothing compared to what he tried to do to you. So basically the one who killed is basically innocent. The one who got murdered is the evil one.

[35:31]

And they're separate. This is the world of where I can do something. Pretty hopeless situation in terms of somebody being clean and free of it all. And again, the people who are free of it all have very, what do you call it, underdeveloped sense of awareness. They haven't thought through it, they haven't watched the situation very carefully for very long. They've watched it for a long time, but not very carefully. They've watched it uncarefully for a really long time. So they have a strong, strong habit of watching in an uncareful way. And therefore, by watching for a long time, not just watching once uncarefully and saying, hey, I looked, I came, I looked, I saw, and I realized I was perfect. And not just once, but they did that over and over and over, so we have this very powerful habit of walking in the situation and saying, I'm fine. I'm the good guy. And there's a few other good guys who are on my team, but basically, you know, other people do have some problems, I know.

[36:33]

We have that very deep habit, okay? That's our habit. And people who don't have much awareness don't know that they have that habit. Some people would think I'm nuts for saying this. They say, that's crazy. What if they do what? If they do that again, if you do have awareness of that habit, you're starting to become like a big bee. Buddha is aware of that habit. Buddha is aware of the habit of, I'm fine, some other people are, some aren't, and I can tell you which are which. That's the habit of delusion. That's the habit upon which you can happily murder people. Because you're pure, they're filthy, remove them. You can do that. That's a delusion, that's evil. That's evil. And to see that that's evil is starting to wake up.

[37:35]

Not see that they're evil, see that you're evil. That's starting to wake up. Part of waking up is to realize your own evil. The people in the great darkness are the people who, they think about themselves, they don't think they're evil. I don't know some of these world famous bad guys and bad girls, but from what I've heard, I've heard very little of them talking about their evil. They were usually talking about other people's evil and that's why they perpetrated evil against the people they thought were evil. And they seemed to go like this when they were successful at inflicting pain and misery upon those who which they thought were evil. And they thought that they were doing good by committing these evil acts towards these evil people. But they were good acts, they thought. Are you following this? Anybody have any problems? They haven't quite got to what to do, but I'm keeping it in mind.

[38:38]

So I'm just saying this is the process of waking up, is to wake up to your own evil. This is the first precept, avoid evil. Avoid evil. So what I'm suggesting is that The process of realizing the precept of avoiding evil, part of what you go through to realize that precept is to wake up to your evil. Your evil, not other people's evil. Most people I know have already awakened to other people's evil sufficiently. There is a few, I've met a few, who maybe should wake up a little bit more to other people's evil. A few. And there's two groups that maybe should wake up to other people's evil more. One group is those who know that they're evil and they're so aware of their evil they can hardly notice other people's evil. And those people actually don't need to wake up to other people's evil anymore. Those are the Buddhists. The Buddhists don't see other people's evil. They see their own. They see other people's goodness and see their own evil.

[39:43]

This is the Buddhists. They're very happy of other people. They're happy to meet other people. They think other people are great. They're kind of like, wow, what a sweetheart, what a great, what a beauty. But I have these problems. But, you know, they learn how to do it. It's kind of like they can do two different things at once. You know, they go, bum, bum, bum, and ju, ju, bum, bum, bum, ju, ju. So they go, you are beautiful people. You're really working hard. You're great. And I got problems. You know, they can do both at the same time. But isn't there something in there about getting your own, saying that your ego is a form of self-centeredness? What am I saying?

[40:46]

Saying that you're evil might be a form of self-centeredness, but noticing that you're evil, noticing that you're evil is not self-centeredness. Noting that you're evil is just simply awareness. To start punching yourself in the face, to notice that you're evil and then start punishing yourself, that's an elaboration of self-concern. But just to notice it, the awareness of it is Buddha. When you do something evil to notice it, that's Buddha. That's wisdom. That's correct. Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha, the old boy noticed that he had some problems. He was embarrassed. He said so. He said, you know, ordinary people do this, this, and this, and I do too, just like an ordinary person. In other words, I'm like an embarrassing situation here. That's how Buddha felt about himself before he was enlightened. through noticing how embarrassing you are to yourself and to everybody, actually, you become more and more awake.

[41:56]

You get a clearer and clearer picture of your own evil, not other people's evil. Forget about that until you're enlightened. Not repress it, you know. Just don't spend much time on it, okay? You will, don't worry. But Start spending more time noticing your own precept failures. And the more you notice it, the clearer it will get. And finally, when evil becomes very clear, then you're getting very close to avoiding evil. When you can see evil clearly, you can see how it comes to be. You can see how it's cooked up and baked up. You can see how it's stir-fried. You can see how it is created.

[42:58]

You can see its causes and conditions. When you can see the causes and conditions of evil, then if your awareness can become absorbed into the causes and conditions of evil, The avoidance of evil has been realized. Rev, how do you start waking up to your own evil without having a tendency to run away from yourself? Because when you start identifying yourself as evil and you have this thought that you want to avoid evil, how do you deal with that? When you first start, if you've been walking along on this planet, which some people have for quite some time, and not having noticed that you're doing any evil, when you first start noticing it, it's a big shock, you know?

[44:04]

I thought I was a nice guy, and now you start to notice that you do something evil, right? Because you're still operating in the realm of you do stuff. And then you start to notice you're something evil. One of the reactions to that is not just notice that you do something evil, but identify with it. And you become the evil one. So you don't just notice the evil, you freak out and embrace the evil. It gets close enough so you grab it and you become possessed by it. You maybe become super aware of how evil you are and then you're evil. That's called overreacting. But then you learn how that is and maybe go talk to somebody who's doing the practice of noticing evil and they can help you cool out. But still there's something good in what you just did. You noticed some evil and you can gradually learn how to note evil and stay cool. Not cool, you know, totally cool, like, you know, too cool, but just a none of helpful cool.

[45:08]

Cool in comparison to overheated. In other words, stay at 98.6 and just say, well, I committed that error and there's some remorse there, you know. That's enough. But when you first start seeing it, you may like say, you may go from, hey, I'm fine to I'm the worst person in the neighborhood or on the planet. You know, you're going along like, basically, it's pretty hard for me to commit any errors because pretty much everything I do is cool. And then you just like make some mistake. And then it goes to like, not just that you're pretty cool and now you made a mistake, but like, now it's pretty hard for me to ever do anything right. I'm like, I'm like a really bad person and I probably should be like, you know, wiped out. That's the kind of reaction to the, to the not being aware. So when you have, when you've been going along for a minute or a week, a year or three months and pretty much getting by with everything smoothly and thinking hey maybe i finally got it together here things are really going smooth for me and then something goes wrong there's this reaction and so it's a skill confession is a skill is a skill and awareness of noticing your own non-virtue again

[46:20]

If you notice your own non-virtue, part of it could be clear is that you can see it clearly and stay present with it. It isn't like you see it clearly and then you sort of like you say, just like, well, that did me a lot of good. Well, forget that. You know, I'm going to take a lot of drugs so I never notice any errors again. You know? No. You got to like, you see the mistake and then stay cool and stay present and say, hmm, okay, let's take it easy now. What was that? just stay there with it try to make yourself comfortable so you can catch the next one and the next one and the next one and you get more and more clear about what evil is and again as you become clear about what evil is you'll notice that it's not a rare quantity and then you can pick it up and set it down just the way it should be and It doesn't defile you anymore.

[47:21]

It isn't that it isn't possible. It's that by observing the causes and conditions, the evil loses its efficacy. But observing in a very intimate way, not even at any distance, being totally absorbed in the dependent core arising of evil will release you from evil. And then, even in the realm of duality, even in the realm of approaching it through the realm of karma, where if you do anything yourself, that point of view is off. That point of view violates the precepts, but if you examine that evil thoroughly, the evil will have no effect. Thinking that you're separate from other people is basically evil. If you clarify that evil of how you think you're separate... that evil will not manifest. Even though you still look at other people and see them as separate, if you look at that evil carefully and see the causes and conditions of it, and there's lots of causes and conditions of us seeing each other as separate. We have a long-standing tradition of seeing each other as separate.

[48:24]

We should respect that. That's powerful. Don't underestimate it. But if you meditate on that carefully, that evil of thinking that you're separate will not take effect. And even though you still see people as separate, you won't act like that. You act kind of like other people are you. I mean, you act kind of like you think other people are you. Except that you won't be thinking that they're evil. Okay, now, I don't know. The whole bunch of people didn't ask questions yet. Could you wait just a second? Okay. It seems like if after practice you're doing here, that you're noticing your own fault, basically, moment by moment. Yes. And confessing it. And if you do that long enough, I can see that, from the point of view that you're a person, that you could become quite obsessed about being a sort of professional, pure person.

[49:32]

Pure person. Professional. Pure person. P-U-R-E. You mean... Professional, pure person. You mean if you notice you're evil, you think you're pure? No, I mean... I mean, I think there's a possibility of someone working on this to the point where they... where they believe that they're becoming pure. And... And... Like the Brahmins of India or like the Pharisees of Israel or something. I want to get clear what you're saying. Are you saying that by noticing that you're non-virtue, you'll start to think you're pure? Is that what you're saying? Yes, right, that's possible. But then, wouldn't you notice that that was impure? Well... You would, because you just said, as you get more and more skillful at noticing your impurity or your errors, you would notice that one of the very likely ones that will start to get uncovered is that as you get more skillful at noticing your imperfection, that you'll think you've advanced spiritually, because you have.

[50:39]

Your awareness has developed, so then you say, well, although I'm noticing more non-virtue, I'm much more aware, and Reb said that that's like Buddha, so then you get arrogant about that. And you notice, you meet some other people who walk around saying, I don't commit any error. And you say, those people are really, he said, they're very underdeveloped. You know, so I'm much better than them. Well, you should then, so that will happen. In other words, as you progress on the spiritual path, as you get higher and higher, you're going to be able to make mistakes you never made before. You can't get arrogant about things you haven't attained yet. But when you attain them, you'll be able to get arrogant about them. When you get more pure... then you can get arrogant about that. Because in fact, you do get more pure sometimes. And so then you'll be susceptible to that downfall. The higher you go, the more tempting it is to be proud of yourself. Because in fact, you have more and more justification for it. That's a real danger.

[51:44]

It's a dangerous path, this life. Okay, now somebody over there. Yes? Yes? Well, I think what you said about overreacting, to me it seems like it's just trying to get the ego back again, you know? Yeah, exactly. It's this little spot where we know we're helpless, it's so uncomfortable that we're trying to get away with it. Right. Like I was walking down the path today and I thought, oh, I'm not stepping on any big bucks today. And I felt really good about that. And then I said... I noticed. But I'm probably... You didn't see me right after I came back. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. And then I thought, well, I'm probably stepping on a lot of little black stuff. And then, you know, I was trying to say to myself, well, I can't help it. You know, so it's like I confessed it. And then right after I confessed it, while I was confessing it, I was already making it up. Yeah, right. Like I said, you know, that story of myself, you know, I confessed and gave myself a compliment at the same time. The eagle is a sharp cookie.

[52:47]

She's gonna take care of you, don't worry. Marianne? When you're kind of coming to terms with the fact that you are breaking your precepts all the time, and then you're aware that you're killing things all the time, and you feel remorse about it, like what you said before, I agree. Is that a quality of Buddha, or is that a quality of your ego, that remorse? It's a quality of Buddha in a sense that it's helping you. You said you use the word, comes to terms with the fact that you're committing evil all the time. Part of coming to terms with it is Buddha, you know. is the Buddha way. Coming to terms with evil is the Buddha way. Coming to terms with evil is avoiding evil. Getting intimate with evil is the way to become free of it. Most people think, I don't know most people, I haven't actually done a census, but some people, like me, have thought that the way to avoid evil is like to get far away from it.

[53:50]

Well, you know, I don't think so. Evil is something that you have to get so close to that you understand it and become free of it. And so coming to terms with evil involves grief, sadness, all kinds of ego thrills, like inflation and depression, and shame, guilt. All this stuff happens as you get closer to evil, your own. That's part of coming to terms with it. Coming to terms with evil is when you finally get so close to it that you're completely settled into the causes and conditions of evil. And that settling and total absorption in the dependent co-arising of evil is the dependent co-arising of avoiding evil. So yes, we have to come to terms with our evil and part of what happens as you come to terms with your evil

[54:54]

as you get more intimate with it and more skillful at meditating on it, is you develop some new forms of evil that you couldn't have before you were more skillful. Poor people cannot have the problems of rich people. Rich people can have the problems of poor people. Like, rich people can act like poor people, right? They can act like they've got no money and like they're not going to make it through the day. But poor people cannot be, you know... A lot of poor people are not that possessive of the nothing that they have. But give them some stuff and they've got some new problems that they haven't had before. I know some people, I've known some women who don't care about anything and they have a baby and suddenly they care about something. It's a good way actually to work to keep somebody alive. Give them a baby. Give them a baby. snap out of their depression for a little while anyway. Something's worth living for here. Anyway, mothers have problems that non-mothers don't have.

[55:59]

Everybody has to work with, basically, in order to fully develop this thing, you have to, you know, handle it all. So, I'm still in the realm, the conventional realm. I'm still in the conventional realm where there's karma, right? There's another realm, there's another level to deal with this priesthood, but I'm still dealing with it on the level of, in a sense, I'm taking that level to the extreme of seeing the causes and conditions, the dependent co-arising of the evil, and therefore that's how to avoid it. So that's my first presentation. Now, any other questions or comments at this time? Yes? I have one about motivation and, you know, on this level of taking action or not. Yes. When you examine your motivation to see whether it's wholesome or unwholesome, I guess I personally have some confusion about that.

[57:04]

And notice, usually the precepts come in when I notice that I've violated them. They're sort of like antiseptic. I don't really... that I might look at something and look at what my motivation is and think that I'm clear, but then I take action of one kind or another. It seems like, I feel like I'm always taking action. Yes, in the realm of action, we're always taking action. In the realm of karma, we're all non-stop actors. And so, I don't, I'm not clear on... of making a skillful judgment ahead of time about whether I should do something or not. Okay, so what I'm saying is, in the realm of karma, she's not sure about making a skillful judgment beforehand.

[58:08]

Okay? I'm saying you will, as your awareness increases, you will notice that you don't make... very often, almost never do you make a skillful decision. You almost always make a mistake. That's what you'll notice as your awareness increases. As your awareness is not very developed, you'll think, well, I did that right, did that right, did that right, I did that right, I did that right, I did that... I'm on a roll, I'm doing one right thing after another. This is called a lowly developed awareness. And then at that level, if somebody comes up to you and says, Sarah, we have a message for you. I'm sent as a messenger from the world to tell you that you just made a mistake, Sarah. Really. We're not kidding. No, no, no. This is not a joke, Sarah. You have just made a mistake. That was not a very good decision you just made there. Get it? What? Oh my God, I made a mistake. Then you get this reaction.

[59:09]

Because you've been successful, you've made like 400 correct decisions in a row. And now the world is like coming in like really, you know, sticking it right in your face. This is not a joke. You made a mistake. You get it? Oh, wow. And then you're like, oh my God, this is like... And actually, it may not be that big a deal. It may be like a traffic ticket or I don't know what. But compared to like what the role you were on, it's like a major comedown. And like, it's like super bad because you thought you were so... So basically, as your awareness increases, you will not, you will still try to make your best decision, but you will notice right away that you blew it. However, if you don't check your motivation beforehand, you're not going to be as successful at noticing that you fall on your face and that you made a mistake. If you don't try to do good, then you're not going to be as successful at noticing that you're committing evil. If you try to commit evil, then you're going to think, well, yeah, I'm committing evil and I'm pretty good at it, but I could do good if I felt like it.

[60:20]

I'm just doing this because I give more attention for it. But I could do good. But if you try to do good, you'll notice that you can't. You can't do good. It is not something you can do. Because just thinking that you can do anything, you're already doing evil. Just thinking that you can do anything independent of other beings is evil. It's not good. To think that you could independently do good is evil, is selfish, is self-centered, is self-cleaning, is self-righteous, is just pure, essential evil. That's all. I don't understand. If you think that you're an independent operator and you can do things without the help of all beings, that's very ungrateful and self-centered. And it's evil. And it's the source of all other evil. If you can do that, you can also decide what's good by yourself. And therefore, once you decide what's good, then you can just lay down the law here.

[61:25]

Anybody that's out of line from what you say is good, they're bad. And then you can administer the law. At any time you want, you can have the bad people punished, the good people rewarded. That's the source of evil. Self-righteousness is the source of evil. If you help a blind person across the street having good intentions that you're doing good, you're saying that that's somehow selfish or evil or... What are you saying? Helping a blind person across the street is good. Thinking that you did it is evil. It is possible to help a blind person across the street without thinking that you did something good. It is possible to help a blind person across the street without thinking that you did anything. It is possible to help a blind person across the street understanding that all sentient beings help the blind person across the street. Okay? That is good. But that's not you doing something. That is all sentient beings helping a sentient being across the street.

[62:26]

But you were the one that did it. No one else did it. I'm confused. No one else helped him walk across the street. You did it. It was a good act. Exactly. And that, if you believe that, that's evil. I didn't say you were evil. That is evil. For you to think that you can walk across the street by yourself without everybody's help, that you're an independent operator, that, I say, is fundamental delusion. And if you think that's true and you operate from that, that you think you can walk across the street, that you can live in this world without all our help, that you're independently existing without connection with all of us, and you can act by yourself, and you're separate from us, that's the fundamental delusion, that's the basis of evil. That's all I'm saying. That's my definition. Okay, get that part of it. Okay? And then the actions which come from the idea, hey, I'm here, what's your name? My name is Vivian. Vivian. I, Vivian, am now, I can do this, I can do that, I can do this.

[63:31]

These people aren't really supporting me in this. I'm operating on my own. I'm not indebted to all beings in the world. They're not all helping me. I'm my own woman. That's it. And now I do this and I do that. And I help this person across the street and if it was good, then I'm the one who gets the credit for the good. This is delusion and this is the basis of evil. This is where it comes from. This is where it comes from. This is where it comes from. This way of thinking which is pervasive. It is pervasive. Like I was talking to someone at a class in Berkeley the other night, somebody was talking about, well, you say you can't avoid evil, but what about evil that is deadly, like alcoholism or something like that? And I said, I'm not talking about alcoholism. I'm talking about, because not everybody is an alcoholic, and you can stop being an alcoholic. But I'm talking about what everybody is into, and what you cannot stop with.

[64:31]

Because you're built as a human being to think, I'm Vivian, I'm operating on my own. I did this, and I did that. Even though I told you that, you're still going to keep thinking that you helped the person across the street, and if it was good, you're still going to think that you did it. Well, fine. As your awareness increases, you say, I just did a good thing, and it was a good thing that it was done, but take away I did it, and it would be just purely a good thing. I get no credit, and that's what a Buddha would do. A Buddha would help the person across the street and get no credit for it. A Buddha helps the person across the street, and the merit of helping them, by the time the person gets across the street, when the merit arrives for the good act, the merit is already given away by an enlightened person. A deluded person is collecting the merit before they even help the person. And where is the merit coming? It's coming to the deluded person. And they're getting more and bigger and bigger and more and more meritorious before they get near the person. Actually, you can just stop before you even get near them and relax and just enjoy your merit.

[65:35]

I'm so good, I don't have to help people look at this truth. This is the way we think. This is pervasive. It's pervasive. We're built this way. It's fine, you know, if you're aware of it. If you're aware of it, then you can be a Buddha. which is somebody who wakes up and understands this process, and evil then is refrained from. And that's what you do. What you do is you meditate on this, and when you understand this, then everything that comes out of you is good. Spontaneously, uninterrupted, goodness comes out of you. Not just when you help doing these things which people see are good, because you do things which are obviously good, like helping people across the street, those good things still happen, but they're completely purified of this step-by-step evil that's going every step of the way, the evil thing, I'm getting it, I'm getting it. By noticing it every step of the way, you're purified of it.

[66:37]

So an evil person is right there doing a good thing. But actually what's happening is all sentient beings are using you to create goodness in the world, as long as you don't Hold it. Okay? But we do hold it, but if you notice how you're holding it, you're not holding it. And your grip is released and you're purified through your awareness of how the mirage, the illusion of you operating independently was created. Because you understand that you're not, that actually, wonderfully, everybody is helping you be good. But we have to notice that we don't think that way in order to realize that we are that way. We have to come down to the ground where we think we're independent, isolated, and therefore omnipotent God beings who deserve to collect all the good and we'll decide what happens from then on.

[67:40]

We have to admit that part of ourselves in order to refrain from that. But refraining doesn't mean you stop yourself. Refraining means you understand how evil is created. That's why you should not be afraid of evil. You should get close to it and understand it, and then you'll be free of it. Una. When you're talking about good... What is it that makes something good that is helpful? That's next week. Let's stay on evil this week, okay? I'm just saying, for now, good is what happens when you avoid evil. Good is when evil has no effect. Good is when human beings like us, who are the way we are, when the situation is like it is now, And suddenly we all become free of that. We stay the same, and yet we become liberated from this.

[68:43]

That's the first meaning of good. And just as evil is all-pervasive, when evil is understood point by point, good is all-pervasive. But I'd like to next week get on good. Okay, now, Walter. Yeah. You asked a lot of questions, but you get to ask another one now, if you still want to, or not even a question, you can make a comment or whatever. Just a thought that... I don't... I see that evil comes out of just the thought, not so much the action. If I'm not aware... of the precepts. Yes. I'm not doing evil. The moment I become aware of precepts, I can act in a very supposedly good way, knowing I shouldn't kill something, and I kill it.

[69:55]

The thought that I want to kill The thought alone is a violation of the precept. Yes. It is not the killing so much as the thought. Well, the... This is the... Yeah, well, the... This is your thought. The basic teaching is that there's three kinds of karma, thought, body, and speech. And thought precedes speech and body. So you can violate the precept to the level of thought, And then it can be amplified in terms of speech and body. So the speech and body are heavier and have further karmic effects than mental. Mental karma has effects. One of the effects is that it's sometimes enacted physically and verbally. It's not always enacted physically and verbally, but oftentimes it is. So basically there's a thought before there's a physical or verbal expression. physical and verbal expression can be seen by others, and they have additional karmic effects and heavier karmic effects than just thought does.

[71:02]

So it is... To think of killing someone is not as heavy as to think of it and then also physically enact it. Or to think of it is not as heavy as to think it and then say, I want to kill you. That's a further application. Of course, you can do all three. You can think it, you can say, I want to kill, and then you can kill. But... In a case, let's say, where Vivian said that she helps this person cross the street. Yes. And she feels proud that she did, or she feels that she did something. Yes. Really good. Yes. Maybe that's not a good example. If I keep myself back from doing something evil, but in my heart I want to do it, but I keep myself back, my sense is that that's breaking the precept.

[72:21]

To want to break a precept is breaking a precept. Right. Even though I hold myself back. Even though you hold yourself back, but you did hold yourself back from dealing with your body, perhaps. Which is good. It's recommended that you do that. However, stopping yourself from violating a precept, okay, that's good to do, but it doesn't mean you didn't violate a precept. But it's good that you did it. You can do a good thing like stopping yourself from killing something, that's good, but still not be successful. Just like Sarah said, she tries to do something and make a decision to do something, you know, unharmful, but you still will go ahead and do something unharmful. But if you don't even try not to do unharmful things, it's not that if you don't try to... Well, if you don't try to avoid being cruel, you won't learn how to really avoid being cruel. But it doesn't mean that trying to avoid being cruel that you're going to be successful.

[73:23]

It's by trying to avoid being cruel that you will learn how cruel you are. Some people are cruel And they know they're cruel, but they think, you know, I'm cruel, but I'm nice to my family. And I'm just cruel in this case because I'm being cruel, but actually I can be nice. And basically I'm a nice person, I'm just temporarily being cruel here. A lot of people think that way. But in fact... What they try to be good all the time, if you always try to be good, always try to be good, always, always, always try to be good, it's recommended that you always try to be good. If you always try to be good, you will become more aware of how unsuccessful you are. But if you never try to be good, you can think very easily, if I tried, I would be able to do it. I'm just not interested to do it. And therefore you think, basically, I can be good if I feel like it. And so you go around thinking, yes, I'm doing bad things, but basically I'm a good person because I can do good anytime I want to.

[74:31]

Now, if you try to do good all the time, then if you ever do anything wrong, then it counts. Because you're trying to do good all the time. Do you understand? If you're trying to do good all the time, you can make mistakes very frequently. if you're trying to be kind to people and helpful to people all the time, then you start making a lot of errors because you notice that you're not successful. So that's why you should, not should, but it's recommended that you try constantly, every moment, to never, ever do anything the slightest bit harm and always do the greatest good. All the time, From now on, forever, do that. And then you will notice that you're unsuccessful. And noticing you're unsuccessful, in a way that you stay alert and happy, you stay happy noticing this.

[75:33]

Happy. This is a joyful practice. You confess your non-virtue. First of all, if you notice your non-virtue and then confess it. So bodhisattvas vow to do good all the time. They take the precepts. I will do good all the time. I vow to embrace and sustain all good, all. Every possible good I will vow to embrace and sustain. They vow to do that. I will avoid all evil. I will help all people. They make those vows. These are the vows we're talking about. Then they watch. And at first they think, hey, I'm successful. I'm avoiding evil. I'm practicing all good and I'm helping people. Then they watch a little longer. They start, oh, I made a mistake. Well, I didn't do good and I didn't help anybody. And then they confess more and more and more and more, confess, notice and confess, notice and confess. And the more you notice and confess, the more you start to notice how good everybody else is.

[76:37]

So you become more and more aware that you're failing at doing the precepts and how great other people are. And as you reach the extreme of noticing how you're constantly violating the precepts and how great everybody else is, you finally successfully practice the precepts and you realize what it means. You realize the practice of avoiding evil, of practicing good and self-helping all people. You make it come real in your life, but you have to reach the extreme of violating the precepts. Not the extreme of violating the precepts, the extreme of awareness of violating the precepts. You're already, nobody could be any worse than me now. I'm already the worst possible person in the world. Nobody's worse than me. I mean, I'm bragging to say that. That would be what a Buddha would realize, that nobody is worse. And when you realize that nobody is worse, you have true moral authority.

[77:41]

You no longer look down on anybody. You no longer can slander anybody. You no longer can speak of others' faults. You no longer can put yourself above people. and so on. You don't violate the precept. You avoid evil when you are completely absorbed into the dependent core rising of evil. And you can't be absorbed and understand the dependent core rising of evil if you're a little bit separate from it and you're a little bit not involved in it. You have to be right there with it. And, fortunately, you are. So it's just a matter of, as you said, coming to terms with And the precepts, as Andrea said, the precepts are your checkpoints. And as you said, you notice the error and then the precepts come back. If you never violate the precepts, you never think of the precepts. Why shouldn't you have to? If you violate the precepts, they come and they say, hello.

[78:44]

You've got the precepts around you all the time. They're always with you when you're violating the precepts. So you get closer and closer to the precepts as you become more and more aware of your evil, not committing any more evil. People who receive the precepts do not break the precepts more than before, but they think they do. That's my experience myself and talking to people who receive precepts. If you see the precepts and practice them, they become more aware of their faults, not less. Becoming more aware of your faults is the path of awakening. Becoming aware of your faults is necessary in order to admit them. You can't confess them unless you're aware of them. You don't confess them in theory, like we do actually in the morning. We say, all my ancient twisted karma, in theory. No, that's kind of a metaphor for the actual admission of your errors. You have to notice them, confess them, and then examine them.

[79:47]

Examine the causes and effects. So tonight's topic was avoiding evil. There is one principle that sums up the path of the Bodhisattva, and that is that all beings will be protected, all beings will be protected by me examining my own mistakes. That's how to protect beings. Beings aren't protected by me noticing their mistakes. Beings are not protected by me not making any mistakes. That is not how to protect beings. It's by noticing your mistakes. If you don't mistake and make any mistakes, beings would not need to be protected. Beings do need to be protected from something. Guess who they need to be protected from? They need to be protected from me.

[80:51]

And if I examine my mistakes, they'll be protected if I do it thoroughly, not just once in a while. Because in between examining them, they're in jeopardy. So my vow is to avoid evil, which means my vow is to confess my evil, which means my vow is to notice my evil. And by noticing, confessing, and examining the evil, I will learn and realize the precept of avoiding evil. This is the first way of looking at avoiding it, but there's another way, which we can talk about later, which is even more weird. Wouldn't all this come out of suffering? Pardon? Your willingness to look at the violation of precepts comes out of my own suffering. It comes out of suffering and compassion. This is how to develop compassion.

[81:56]

So, Rev, when you're talking about protection, and you were talking about demonstrating when that man was killed at San Quentin, or that it may be appropriate sometimes to take action to stop someone from raping someone or stop someone from doing harm to you or... Yes. Bodhisattva has vowed to always protect beings from harm and try to prevent harm. Always take action to do that immediately. So that involves seeing someone else's action and making a judgment about it and taking action to stop it. Maybe. Not necessarily. Maybe. You don't have to go through that particular process. But if you do, then you go through it, you confess your evil of judging another, and you see how the causes and conditions of your evil actually come together, and then you go in and stop it from your liberated position.

[83:12]

You stop that thing, that harm from happening after you also just took your own evil out of the situation by noticing how you were going to self-righteously go in there and do that. But you purify your own self-righteousness so you can go ahead and act and stop the evil. And that's what you were talking about. But you don't think, see, you're not self-righteous, so you don't think you're stopping another person's evil. You're not stopping that murderer, you're stopping murder. You know, it's not one person's murder. If you think it's his murder, then you're violating the precepts. Maybe the person wasn't really going to commit murder and then you kill them and they were just kidding. You've heard stories of that, right? Somebody's got a toy gun and then somebody shoots the person who's kidding around. They misread the situation. If you cure yourself of your own self-righteousness, then you come into the situation in a totally different way and you don't make the mistake. So you can come back into the same situation cured of your own self-righteousness if you catch your self-righteousness

[84:20]

And we're very susceptible to self-righteousness, really very susceptible. It is basically an endemic situation to us that we think we're right. So if you're aware of that, you and other beings are protected from your self-righteousness. If you're cured of your self-righteousness, you can go right ahead and lay down the law. But not self-righteously. You can go like this, you can say, that's wrong! Just like that. But not you. You're not doing it. You're doing it on behalf of all beings. And you really mean that. And you will die for that. You will die for that. Is that delusion? No, it's not delusion. It's not delusion. It is you have conquered your delusion because you're aware of your delusion and you know it as delusion. Then you can act purely. then you can do good in the world.

[85:22]

But you can't do good if you haven't checked out your evil. I would suggest that that would be the realm of fearlessness. Yes. Yes. At that point when there is no me, and I hang on... where I see needs to be active, where I'm willing to give up my life, that would be fearless. Yes. But that's a wholly different state. Yeah, it's a wholly different state, and you get there by admitting your fear and admitting that you are a self. Admitting yourself, you have to admit it. And that's hard work. It's hard work to catch your selfishness moment by moment and to see how evil we are. How many times today did I recognize how selfish I was? Every time I did, that was good. Every time I did, I was a little bit awake. The rest of the time when I was going around being selfish and not noticing it, it's just damage control.

[86:25]

And I'm glad I didn't do any more wrong stuff than I did during those times. But there were a lot of those times when I didn't notice. So I'm sorry for what I did when I wasn't aware of how evil I was. And so it's not for me to talk about you. It's for you to check out yourself. Okay? So please, avoid evil. Practice good and purify your minds if you want to. May our intention...

[87:03]

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