Today is January 7th, so that's about, this is the third full day of this 21 days. The first two days we mostly just sat together, and I, I spent time meeting with quite a few people individually. And so I thought I'd begin this meeting by sending over kind of at the beginning of this, of this retreat, and how is it for you, if you'd like to express about how it, how it is now, at this time, at the beginning?

[01:03]

Yes. It certainly feels formative, like it's gathering, formative, like it's, it's, it's, it's beginning. It's formative? It's wrestling with forms. You, you feel, you feel like kind of wrestling with forms? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And yourself, and, and you sense others are, are, are in that process too? I think so. I find sense in everything. Mm-hmm. Life seems dramatically simpler. Life seems simpler? Mm-hmm. Life seems more complicated. And very emotionally intense. Life seems emotionally intense? Curiously, yeah.

[02:14]

Curiously? This morning is already very different from yesterday. By the end of yesterday, I think I was the only one that felt pretty exhausted, I was on day two. Now it's day three, and it feels energetic. Yesterday evening, you felt, you felt exhausted, today you feel energetic. Many periods of zazen was like, someone said like, climbing a mountain after having been walking on the plains. And I, too, felt very exhausted and resistant and frightened, and I don't know if you felt frightened. I felt frightened. But today it feels already fruitful. Resistant and frightened and fruitful? Yes? I'm feeling settling.

[03:16]

My mind is settling. Not as much activity. So settling, not quite as much activity now after a few days. Yes. I'm still climbing the mountain. By the end of the first day, I didn't feel overwhelmed, I actually got overwhelmed. I just sort of lost my composure, and now I'm gradually setting down the day I feel more enthusiastic. That's softer. Feeling softer? Yes, sir. I find this silence in this window, and I'm grateful for it, and I also find myself struggling to be every place on time,

[04:38]

and I'm not being used to, for a while I haven't been in such a strict schedule, so it's not in my body yet. So it's a challenge every day. Yes. It's encouraging to hear more advanced students having the same problems. Yes. I'm still quite tired from coming out of England, but I'm very appreciative that this has given me a chance to participate. Yes. I feel kind of strange because I'm really trying to reconnect with the outside world. I feel like I have this pile of paper chores that I'm trying to do. I'm being a Tassajara, and now it's like I'm trying to put feelers out in the world,

[05:42]

and it's sort of like everyone else is trying to get into this more, and it's been a little challenging. You're putting out feelers in the last few days? Yes, well, I've been trying to get more involved in the world again. Well, in the last few days? Well, yes, since I left Tassajara. And you feel other people are doing the opposite? Well, yes. It's just this dichotomy. Yes. I'm feeling great appreciation for this precious opportunity, and also tripping over the challenges of the schedule, but it's familiar. I'm familiar with the schedule, so I feel like I will settle.

[06:44]

You feel like you will settle? Yes, it's coming. Yes? I find it extremely challenging to take care of the garden, and the way it needs to be taken care of, and to be here and do what everybody else does, and feel the pressure at the same time. Do you hear her? Mm-hm. Any other expressions of how it is at this point? Yeah, I still feel a little bit of needing to let go, or not clear on how much to let go of my responsibilities outside of here while I'm here. Do you hear her? Yes? I just arrived in Tassajara. I arrived yesterday evening, so I'm still jet-lagged and tired. It feels like coming home.

[07:47]

It's wonderful. Wonderful old people. Laughter I hope the people who have hair don't... Laughter Laughter I'm enjoying it. You're enjoying it? I'm enjoying myself. You're enjoying yourself? And it? Laughter Hair is enjoying. Hair is enjoying? I just want to express appreciation for the schedule,

[08:48]

and the extended periods of quiet. I think it makes it easier for us to feel what we're actually feeling. Could you hear her? Mm-hm. Yes? I'm feeling very appreciative for being able to feel my body. I feel it throbbing, and doing its thing, and being able to really pay attention. Laughter Could you hear that? There's another hand back there. Yes? When I'm witnessing myself, and I don't know who is doing it. And I'm looking at other people around me, and I see motion, and things are happening. And it's weird.

[09:49]

I cannot say it's a sensation, but it's something which is... It feels different. And I see people reciting sutras, and saying things. And it feels to me... Not meaningless, but as if like... It's a mind reciting something without something. I don't know how to express it, but... And it's wonderful at the same time, but... So, but... We're reciting the sutras, and... I don't feel the heart connected to it. Unless, I mean, if I'm reading it for myself, I need to be quiet.

[10:54]

I'm not necessarily verbally expressing it externally, so... It sinks in. And when we stand and we read... I feel like it's... Something artificial trying to train itself to be something else. So... It feels like everything has measured just enough of everything. I have a great deal of gratitude for being there. He started with making, I think, real efforts in Zazen, but then the jet lag destroyed everything.

[11:57]

I can see my mind already lost and confused. I don't know. I enjoy it very much here. I find this place wonderful. And... I'm currently in a funny mood. And I hope you don't mind if I laugh all the time. And... Is Anne sick? No, she's here. Oh, is she? I feel I'm in deep...

[13:03]

In sort of... Warm water... But... Drifting... Away from shore in ways that confuse me. You feel you're in deep warm water, drifting away? It feels good, but it feels weird and... And... Increasingly remote from where I started. Probably a good thing. Kind of... So you say you're kind of confused? No, it's... Good news? Yes. And...

[14:22]

Some of the things that I've... Sensed or... Experienced is that quite a few people were... Made an effort to apply for this practice period and were accepted. And... Dropped out. And a number of these people were from around, you know, far away from... Like Australia. And... England. And... Any other far away places? Vancouver, yeah. You know, quite a few people who were intending to come but didn't come. And... One person in particular from Australia I was looking forward to meeting because it basically looked... the person looked... Didn't say on the application that her name was Helen Mirren, but she looked... I think it was Helen Mirren.

[15:25]

But there was another... But there was another person besides Helen Mirren that applied. Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep did come. So you may be able to notice who she is as you look around. You may see Meryl Streep in the group. And... So a lot of people... And two people haven't arrived yet. So that's part of what happens. People are coming from around the world. And... From other continents. So there's this... There's that factor, you know, that we have this... And then... Most of the... The people who are coming in from far away in some ways have a little bit of a... To some extent, an advantage because they're so far away from home

[16:31]

that they can't... They can't be too involved in it. And... Some of the people in Green Gulch have told me that they're having a hard time letting go of outside... interests, responsibilities, commitments, friends and things like that. Because... The outside is not so far away from them in a way. And so they're having some difficulty letting go of these outside things. And... And then one person said that actually he's like totally into getting more outside than ever before. So we have... But we're not going to give this heretic any trouble.

[17:32]

But then even people who are not so much in the literal sense of being involved with things over the... over the mountains, so to speak, or over the ocean, just in their own mind, you know, in their own body, it's like there's some tendency to... to, like, go away from here. To not... So there's some resistance to settling into being where you are. And... Partly you want to. But... Partly you say you want to, and partly you say you're having a hard time settling into this being here. And partly you say you're afraid of what will happen if you settle here. If you don't want to ensure things which make you feel like you know where you are. Which not you necessarily, but some of your... some of these...

[18:37]

And settling with your body, settling with the schedule, settling with the situation. It's in one sense very... You know it's a great opportunity, and at the same time you're resisting it. You've come a long ways, and made a big effort to do this thing, and now you also have to do it, in some sense. That's what I hear from people. And I often tell the story that, you know, I... I made a big effort to come to Zen Center and to study the Suzuki Roshin. And... And I was... put myself into Zen Center and was there all the time. And he noticed that I was there, because I was there all the time. And so he gave me a chance to be with him, just like I wanted. And sometimes he'd give me a chance to be with him, just him and me, and I would sometimes, when I got just what I wanted,

[19:46]

I would often tell him that I appreciate the opportunity, but I didn't want to take any more of his time, so I'll be leaving now. And he'd say, no, it's okay, you can stay. And I'd say, oh, okay. Well, can I go now? So... when we get to the place we've always wanted to be, we sometimes get scared and resist the place that we most want to be, so that's part of what we're trying to, like, settle with. It's kind of a struggle that we're going through. So... And I'm... And I'm representing stay... I'm kind of like representing stay here, right? So people come to me and tell me when they feel like they have to, like, physically leave the valley. And they also come to me and tell me when they feel like they're... psychically want to leave the valley, or emotionally not here.

[20:49]

So it's difficult for me, too, to, like... I don't want to, like, you know... rough with people and say, you can't go. So I have to work with that. And so... Yeah, so that's another little struggle, particularly for the people who live here and have Zen center responsibilities. So, like, the last few days, the Tantra left Green Gulch to go to meetings. Actually, she went to a meeting on Day Before yesterday, but then turns out the meeting that she thought she was going to have to leave for yesterday was here, so she didn't have to leave. And... So my... The general thing that I say to people who are kind of residents here in Green Gulch, is that... Oh, here comes the Tantra now. The thing I say to people who live here is those things which, you know, like,

[21:52]

need to be done for... that really need to be done for somebody else's benefit, that will be harmed if you don't do, go ahead and do them. And so people are taking children to... to school and things like that. And... And people are doing, you know, tantrics to get food and so on, or medicine for people here. But mostly people are not leaving, but... It's hard to... It's hard for people who live here not to leave. And which is part of the unusual quality of this retreat, is that usually when we have practice periods at Green Gulch, or even sessions, not everybody in Green Gulch is in the practice period, or in the session. Not everybody. So... Particularly during practice periods, there's only like 20 or 30 people out of the 80 that are in the practice period. Other people are going out, people are visiting, and, you know, various other outside responsibilities,

[22:54]

and meetings and so on. But that's the special quality of this. And yet the responsibilities are still all around. So this is another struggle, is how to balance that. How to tell whether the going out is a resistance to being here, or really what's totally appropriate to being here. Um... So... I... I thought I might just read this poem, which I've read to you a number of times before. It seems like an appropriate thing at the beginning

[23:57]

of entering into this formal container of this intensive... It's an English translation of a poem called How to Paint the Portrait of a Bird. First paint a cage. So we have a cage here. A cage. And I'm the official gatekeeper. I'm the cager. First paint a cage with the gate open. Then paint something pretty. Something simple.

[24:58]

Something complicated. Something beautiful. Something useful. For the bird. Then place the canvas against a tree in a garden, in a wood, or in a forest. Hide behind the tree. Without speaking, without moving. Sometimes the bird comes quickly. But before she can... Oh, excuse me. But she can just as well spend long years before deciding to come. Don't get discouraged. Wait. Wait years if necessary. The swiftness or slowness of the coming of the bird

[26:00]

has no rapport with the success of the painting. Some of you may... For some of you, the bird may not come during these three weeks. But we have a cage. And the door is open if the bird wants to come. And if it doesn't, it's not a total waste of time just to be here waiting for the bird. The bird's alive somewhere. When the bird comes, if she comes, observe the most profound silence. Tell the bird enters the cage. And when she enters the cage,

[27:03]

gently close the door with a brush. So that's kind of where we're at now. It's like waiting for the bird. And when the bird comes, then just... When the bird comes into the cage, when the bird actually arrives here, then gently close the door. And if that can happen, and that might be all that can happen, the spark is stricken. Just get the bird into the cage. You see what that's like, to have the bird finally in the cage. If there's any time left over, once you have a caged bird, a bird that's really settled, then there's more opportunities.

[28:06]

For example, then, paint out the bars of the cage. One by one. Taking care not to touch any of the feathers of the bird. Then paint a portrait of a tree. Choosing the most beautiful branches for the bird. Paint also the green foliage, and the wind's freshness, and the dust of the sun, and the noises of the insects in the summer heat. And then wait for the bird to decide to sing. If the bird doesn't sing, it's not a good sign. It's a sign it's a bad painting. But if he sings, it's a good sign. A sign that you can sign. So then, very gently,

[29:09]

pull out one of the feathers of the bird. And write your name in the corner of the painting. What's the title of the author of that book? In English, it's called To Paint the Portrait of a Bird. And the author's name is Jacques Prévert. And this is a translation by Lawrence Berlinghetti. So, one of the first ways that I propose to look at this poem is that the first part is like the first part of this time we're in now. And it seems to be describing tranquility practice.

[30:11]

And so, yesterday at noon, and this morning at morning service, we chanted the first page of chapter 8 of the scripture, which is the scripture elucidating the intention of the Buddha's teaching, Samdhinirmochana Sutra. And in what you chanted, there was a question, the first question in this chapter, this is a chapter called The Questions of Maitreya, so this is a chapter where the future Buddha, Maitreya Bodhisattva, is asking the Buddha, is interviewing the Buddha. The Bodhisattva of Loving Kindness. And so he asked the Buddha, you know, relying on what, and abiding in what,

[31:28]

does the Bodhisattva practice Samatha and Vipassana? Samatha, tranquility meditation, and Vipassana, insight meditation. So, when a Bodhisattva is practicing these kinds of meditation, what do they rely on and what do they abide in? And the Buddha says, the Bodhisattvas rely on and abide in an unshakable resolution to attain unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment and to expound the teachings of the Buddha for the welfare of the world. In many of the previous chapters of this scripture,

[32:31]

when other Bodhisattvas ask questions, after they ask their question, the Buddha says, Oh, that was a very good question, very good question, and you asked this question for the welfare, benefit, and so on, of innumerable beings, so it's very good that you asked this question. But this time he doesn't say this to Maitreya, he doesn't say it very good. In this case, it's not necessary to say it, but this is a very good question to this Bodhisattva. He just says right away what they abide in. And then Maitreya says that the Buddha, the Bhagavan, has taught that there are four things that are objects of observation for Bodhisattvas

[33:36]

who practice Samatha and Vipassana. And the four things are conceptual images, non-conceptual images, the limits of phenomena, and the accomplishment of purpose. Those are the four things which are objects of observation for Bodhisattvas who practice tranquility and insight. And I think then Maitreya asked the Buddha... How many of these four objects are the objects of observation of Vipassana?

[34:45]

And he says one is the object of Vipassana, the conceptual images. And how many are objects of Samatha, or tranquility? And the Buddha says one, the non-conceptual images. And then he says how many are objects of both? And he says two, the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of purpose. In other words, how many of these four objects are the objects of practicing tranquility and insight together? And he says two, the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of purpose. And then he goes on.

[36:02]

I'll stop right there and just say that it seems like for many of you, that I hear already you telling me how you want to practice and how you are practicing, it seems like for many of you, at least in the Zen-do, what you're practicing actually is you're practicing trying to study non-conceptual images, which is the kind of images that you look at, that you turn your attention towards in the process of developing tranquility. So, in fact, I think a lot of you are working on developing tranquility. And some of you have asked me, you know,

[37:11]

for some instruction on how to practice tranquility. So, perhaps I can do some of that this morning. But I also want to say that the sutra says that, in that page you chanted, it says that the actual state of tranquility is not the same as observing these non-discursive images, or observing images non-discursively. The state of tranquility is a state of physical and mental

[38:13]

pliancy and ease and flexibility and composure. It's not actually the training in the attention to the non-conceptual image. And so if you're training but haven't yet obtained that state, you actually, it's not really, shamatha is not really the tranquility. However, it is training which is concordant with, it's an intensive effort which is concordant with tranquility because it comes to fruit as tranquility. Once you're in a state of tranquility, you can give up, at least temporarily, that type of training. And then from the position of tranquility, you can turn your attention to the second kind of object, which is the conceptual type of image, which are the images that insight meditation uses.

[39:16]

But also on the first page it says that if you haven't attained the state of tranquility, the state of mental and physical pliancy and ease and so on, if you haven't attained that and you're looking at a discursive image or a conceptual image, is that insight, is that vipassana? And the Buddha says, no, it is not. In the next page, on the other side, it says, it's like vipassana, it's like insight work, because in insight work you are looking at discursive images. But if you're looking at discursive images and you're not in a state of tranquility, it's not the same as if you're looking at discursive images in a state of tranquility. It's not vipassana. Vipassana, according to this text, is looking at conceptual images, meditating on them in a state of tranquility. So, as you... I just wanted to make that clear at the beginning,

[40:17]

there's more details, but now I want to shift back to the tranquility side. Tranquility. Let's talk about what does it mean to be observing a non-conceptual image. Well, first of all, it's kind of almost an oxymoron, I guess, to say non-conceptual image. It's the same as saying a non-conceptual concept. So you're meditating on a concept of non-conceptuality. That's another way to put it. But you're meditating on a concept of non-discursive silence. So you have this concept of non-discursive silence. Do you have a concept like that? Of being silent, like we hear a sound, being silent with that sound,

[41:19]

and not being discursive about it. So that sound, for most of us, is primarily a concept, an image. It's an audio image. Or the sight of my hand. Most strongly, for most of us, it is the image of the hand. So you're training your... In tranquility work, you're training the mind to look at the image quietly, with no imagination about the image. Give up your images about the image itself. Give up your discourse about the image. Discursive means going back and forth, or wandering around. So it's to train the attention on whatever images are appearing to you, or whatever concepts are arising to you, to your conceptual cognition, actually.

[42:19]

You have the conceptual cognitions of things, and this training is primarily in the realm of conceptual cognition. Training in tranquility is basically in the realm of conceptual cognition, because in the realm of conceptual cognition is where you can hear language and instruction about how to train your mind in tranquility. And so the instruction is... And someone said to me... Someone said to me that... I think she first said something like... In her meditation lately, just in the first few days here, and before that, she was noticing that her mind is not so busy. And when her mind is quiet... Actually, first of all, she said, I notice my mind is more quiet than usual. It's getting more quiet. And when my mind is quiet, it's almost like...

[43:25]

She didn't say almost like nothing. She said, when my mind is quiet, nothing's happening. And so I asked her, well, are there still sounds and sights? Do you have still the sensations of your body? And she said, yes. So I rephrased it as, it's almost like nothing's happening when your mind is quiet. And she said, maybe better to say my mind's not so busy. So I said, again, is it... Is it like when your mind's not so busy, not so... It's like nothing's happening? And she said, yes. So, lots of those things happening sometimes seems related to the mind being busy. And then not being busy seems like not so much is happening. And I wouldn't say what really things are happening.

[44:31]

I would say more like the appearance of things happening goes on, but it seems not quite as active in that quiet, not busy way of mind. And she said, is this a kind of meditation? And I said, yes, it is a kind of... It's like a kind of meditation that you're recording. It's a tranquility. And then she said, but should I be doing something more? Should I be studying something? And I said, well, there is that kind of meditation too, where you actually... There is more to meditation than just being quiet. But maybe for you now, it seems like your destiny is that right now it seems natural for you to quiet down, settle down. And once you're settled, then we may turn to actually looking at some things and thinking about them.

[45:36]

So another way to say it is that the training in tranquility is whatever objects you're knowing, train yourself in giving up thinking about them. If you attain a state of tranquility, then we can shift to the insight type of work, where you look at things and you do think about them. But first of all, it's good for all of us to be able to look at, to listen to, to smell, to touch, to taste, to imagine images. A fall, in mid-flight, just happened to have seen. If you don't seem to be able to do that without elaborating, then you just sort of make that whole big complicated wad

[46:39]

of the raindrop with lots of thoughts about the raindrop, which can happen before it even hits the ground. You make that something which you're not discursive about. At some level you start to get in touch with what it's like not to discourse about something. And if your discursive thought is so vivid and turned up, so that it zips in there and gets going on everything before you have a chance even to well, do anything but that, then on some level you don't add anything to that. And you feel like, yeah, that was a big kind of complicated response to the glistening of that light. And that's it. That's all I have to say right now. And I have nothing further to say. I rest my case. Guilty! Okay.

[47:43]

Yeah. Fine. I'm guilty. And I have no rebuttal. I'm just walking around guilty as it is. All day long guilty. Me. The discourse queen. I have no comment on my non-stop, full-throttle discourse. I do have a comment. Well, like I say, we're in the process of resistance here. At some level,

[48:46]

at some level you find a place where you're not resisting, resisting the teaching of giving up discourse, the teaching of training the mind in non-discursive silence. So it's like... And then there's non-discursive silence with that. And no matter what happens, no matter how noisy it is, there can be a non-discursive silence with the biggest explosion. And then there's another one. And there can be non-discursive silence with that. So it isn't that you have to turn off the noise, although a lot of people find that it kind of helps them to get a hang of it by turning off the noise a little bit. So we don't talk in this endo. We don't turn over to our neighbor and blow in their ear. Tickle them and stuff like that.

[49:46]

It makes it a little easier. But we want to be able to find that way of being with things, training the mind in that way, because it is there all the time. One of the translations, another translation in another part of the chapter says that you're training your attention to the mind which is always there with whatever is happening. Because there's basically, no matter what's happening, no matter whether it's a little beep or a little beep with a big commentary in a moment, there's always a mind there which is basically the same with just knows it, just knows it, just knows it. So you're actually paying attention to this mind which just knows whatever is happening and doesn't make any comments. Which is just the simple mental cognition. The sixth consciousness does not comment on things. I have a confession which is

[50:48]

I think it's as deep as my identity and that I love it. And so to give it up is to give up what I probably prize most about myself. Yeah, right, that's right. And then the question is whether you can make a deal with yourself to say, well, could I... We've got this identity well established, pretty well established, well enough to take a break for like, you know, five minutes. And you might say, well, I think, you know, let's try it, let's see if I like lose my identity and can't find it after five minutes. And if you're not sure, make it one minute. And if you're not sure that one minute's long enough, maybe come and see me and I'll hold your identity for you for one minute. And you can write it down and so on, so you make sure that we get it notarized so we can cover it. And then you can enter into a state of like non-discursive silence and then if you forget your identity during that time, which you might, then we can just bring it up and say, remember this? There is some risk.

[51:51]

And that's part of what you're afraid of. You're afraid that you won't be able to recover what you've been sort of maintaining all this time if you take a break from the kinds of activities which are kind of like self-maintaining. And discursive thought is basically coming from self-maintenance. That's its basic motivation usually. But when you're tranquil, it's a little bit different because the tranquilities are rising and you're feeling a little bit more at ease with maybe thinking some thoughts which aren't directly verified as self-maintaining. You know? Although it's risky to go into tranquility, once you're tranquil you feel in danger to give up your discursive thought. Once you're tranquil, you're kind of like, you're still in danger of losing your identity. Losing track of it. Which of course, ultimately, no one has ever found. We have a standing reward

[52:54]

for anybody that finds an identity. I mean, there are identities but identities are nothing more than words. There's no identity in addition to your middle name. But anyway, identities can never be found, actually. So there is a danger of losing your identity. And that's there all the time. But when you're tranquil, it's kind of like... But you know, as you're approaching tranquility, that you might lose your identity as you approach tranquility. In fact, you might lose it. However, you need insight to be convinced through direct perception that nobody can find it, and they'll never find it. Because although you don't find it right now, you're in this kind of

[53:54]

fairly healthy form of sedation. So, since you're so sedated, it's kind of like, well, yeah, I can't put my identity, but I feel fine. And that's... A lot of people who are afraid of losing their identity do take Valium for that purpose. They're terrified because they're aware that they might lose their identity any moment and not find it. So they take medication so that they feel more at ease with that possibility. Any other questions about tranquility? Well, you were saying that it's helpful if the Zen Dojo is very quiet, and I was just thinking yesterday... It's helpful at the beginning. Later it'll be helpful to make the Zen Dojo noisy. Well, I was going to say that when there was that Zen Dojo in Brastonburg, with the bombers

[54:56]

flying overhead, and there were a lot of birds, and the Royal Air Force was doing some sort of practice or something. Yes. And I had more success with this practice there than anywhere else because I personally... I mean, because I had these images which I then experienced without the concepts on them. And I was just feeling yesterday that at the end of it, it was way too quiet. There was nothing to nothing to welcome sense-wise. And it's also very dark. Do I know what you mean? I think so, yeah.

[55:56]

So, this is a more advanced Zen Dojo for you. Something that I do with my mind is really confused. And I've seen lots of confusion. I intentionally try to calm it down by doing some kind of loving-kindness meditation. So my question for you is is this a skillful means, a helpful thing, or should I just somehow try to sit with the confusion? Loving-kindness is not limited to being a tranquility gesture. But that is one of the uses of loving-kindness is to calm down discursive thought. So it is,

[56:58]

it can be used, it is used by many people as a way to develop non-discursive silence. So, you're confused or whatever, you're confused or you're angry. Usually they don't recommend loving-kindness if you're feeling lustful thoughts. Intensify them. Not only do I want to have this kind of relationship with a person, but I also just really wish them the best. I think I would really get on with this lustful activity as soon as possible. And then you get more kind of excited and less

[57:58]

and more discursive, like where should we go now? And does your husband know about this? These kinds of things. But loving-kindness is particularly good if you're in your particular form of confusion, it may be very good for you. But for your neighbor it might not be good. So that's part of what... And also if you're calm, or if you're already calm, loving-kindness also continues to be good. But if you're not calm, it can be used to help you be... to give up discursive thought. Because it's kind of simple, you know, it simplifies your discursive thought. So for many people just going into non-discursive thought is too abrupt, so they do better if they have a little bit of verbal discourse which is somewhat simplified, like for example the Heart Sutra. If you can just like breathe

[59:00]

and then give up being discursive about your breath, that's simpler than for example chanting the Heart Sutra. But sometimes if your mind is too gross or too coarse, meditating on your breath may be too subtle. So walking meditation might be better than sitting and being non-discursive about your body and breath. So you can like walk and be non-discursive about your walking. So some people when they're walking they can be non-discursive about the walking, but they can't be non-discursive about the sitting. Does that make sense? And some people can't be non-discursive about walking so that then we have them try to be non-discursive about running. Some people can't be non-discursive about running so we have them tightrope walk. You know? Because then they learn, if I'm at all discursive, I'll fall to my death. Or I'll fall to the Met anyway. So the coarser the mind

[60:01]

is, the more kind of like coarse the antidote needs to be. And then when the mind calms down you get more and more subtle antidotes to more and more subtle discourse. And so loving-kindness meditation is maybe a little bit more coarse at the beginning than... Because it's discursive. It's a little bit discursive. May all beings be happy. May all beings be free of anxiety and fear. May all beings be at ease and buoyant in body and mind. That's discursive, but if you just stop there and don't say and especially this person next to me I'd like me. So you just pick an object and then you have a standard discourse for every object you're working on. And there's a discourse about the order of the objects and you consult with your teacher and then you go back to your teacher and tell your teacher how you're doing and your teacher says, well you don't do that. Don't do that. Stump that part. That's extra. So again

[61:01]

many people need to be... But in a sense this is always discursive at the beginning because you actually have to choose an object. That's why we're talking now, we're just getting discursive instruction about how to be not discursive. And so your question is could I be this discursive and I'm discursively saying, yes, you can be that discursive. And then when you're calm with that, then I might suggest to you, why don't you see it now if you give up that discourse of loving kindness, see if you can also continue that same simple way of being with what's happening. And you might try it and say, no, I can't. Continue that longer then. And you say, no, I think, let's try it again. And then you try it again and say, yeah. I don't need it anymore. But you still could go back and do it even though you don't need it. I mean, you could go back and do loving kindness even though you're already calm. So at first but you don't have to. So once again, as you'll see in the text, if you look at it, it says that once

[62:02]

you attain tranquility, you give up that type of attention and switch over to the other kind of attention, the inside intention. So once you're tranquil you don't have to continue giving up discursive thought. You can pick it up again because you've realized the fruit of settling. So once you settle you can give up settling meditation and start thinking again. Yes. If you are in a state where you are getting mostly just first impressions of phenomena with a discursive thought, yet all of these impressions are a reflection of thinking because it's a phenomenon. I would say better, maybe better to say more certain to say all of these are reflections of thought. Of thought. Of mind rather than

[63:02]

a reflection of thinking. Because sometimes thinking is really attenuated. And then thought. And it's so simply because our mind is alive and and For a given discourse I'm not going to be more instable at this point. Pardon? You were about to give a discourse about the nature of mind. About being alive and so on. Is there anything else you want to say at this point? No, I was wondering what is thought? You're wondering what is thought? Yeah. Wondering what is thought is some... Yeah, so that's a different topic. Enquiry is not wondering what is thought. No. Give up wondering what is thought in tranquility. Yes. Not that I know anything about it. In tranquility training.

[64:03]

Yes. There is a teaching out there about tranquility, about self-absorption of tranquility. I never hear anything about it. So I was wondering I mean is it just because one is not flexible enough and one goes into self-absorption and they don't fit into 48 periods and don't... Are you referring to like these four different types of transism and the four formless absorptions? Yes. And you're wondering why we don't talk about them? I think because very few people at Zen Center are actually practicing those. And that the first level coming to the place of tranquility where you could enter into the first trance is sufficient for most of the type of meditations which we want to work on here. But in the full range of your

[65:04]

development over innumerable lifetimes you probably would study those things. And those in some sense more advanced states of concentration than just attaining a legitimate state of tranquility wherein you could develop authentic insight. Authentic, I mean like true understanding can be attained from a state of tranquility which is not even yet the full state of the first jhana. Because in the first jhana when you're in that state you cannot actually discursive thought is attenuated. So in those higher states of jhana you cannot actually be meditating on the teachings. However, once you're in a state of tranquility in a state of tranquility you can meditate on these teachings and attain authentic understanding.

[66:04]

You don't have to enter into those higher trances in order to attain it. Once you have authentic understanding then you can go back and deepen your insight and then deeper your tranquility through these trances and then your insight will also develop without any further study. But the authentic vipassana can occur in a state of samatha which is not even yet the first level of trance. But it's a state of samatha where you could easily enter into the first level of trance if you wanted to. I don't know if people could follow that. How do you enter the first level? How do you enter? Well, basically once you're tranquil you basically give up these two mental factors which you use to enter into tranquility called vipassana

[67:04]

excuse me, called vichara and vittarka. Vittarka is the way you apply yourself to the image clearly and sharply and then the vichara is actually a little bit of discursiveness around it by which you comprehend the object more clearly. Then you peel away those you kind of like take those two mental factors to their limit and then you drop away and then you enter the trance. However, once they drop away you can no longer speak or understand verbal instruction. And in that case you wouldn't be able to meditate on the teachings at that time. You have to back up from that trance again and reenter a place where they're operating. Those two mental factors are operating again in order to study. Yes? As far as what you were saying about

[68:06]

tranquility and thoughts I'm just thinking about I feel like when I'm in an interaction and there's background images going on, background objects moving, people interacting like somehow I'm not consciously thinking about what's going on in the background but there's energy that I feel affected by. And so I'm just wondering I guess I'm just wondering is that possible or is it just that I'm not so conscious about my thoughts about this background stuff and does that even make any sense? One of the things you said was is that possible and what is it that you're referring to about is that possible? Well I think it is possible

[69:11]

that there's this background these background images that are going on and I feel like I'm affected by that even though there's no actual thinking about what's going on. Yes. Is it possible for such a situation to be occurring? Is that your question? I think so. And so there's so as far as tranquility goes so I'm not having any conscious thoughts about all this stuff. Excuse me in a sense you're having conscious thoughts but you're not it doesn't sound like what you're describing it doesn't sound like you're being particularly discursive with this material so that way of being with this material where you're not being particularly discursive is a type of mental retention which is conducive to tranquility. And so I guess my question is

[70:14]

can can it be that it's because I'm not having well I think I'm not having discursive thoughts about it but if it's kind of like If you think you're not having discursive thoughts about it that's a discursive thought. At the time though I don't think I am. But today now looking back you think you are. Right. Maybe. You think maybe you were you think maybe you were kind of giving up discursive thoughts as you imagined that. It's just these I'm just wondering if the images somehow can come in and cause non-tranquil escapes because they're bizarre and sometimes disturbing. You're wondering if images can come in and cause non-tranquil states. It's like saying you're in a war.

[71:15]

You know well we're in a war every day in a way. So we're interacting. And there's there's battles going on in the peripheral. So you feel you feel in the periphery in the periphery of your awareness you feel images and you're asking if those images arise or come in to your awareness can they cause a non-tranquil state? Right. The answer is yes. And that's basically what non-tranquil states are is when images come in and they are conditions for non-tranquility because we get involved with them and we start tying them together and you know seeing relationships between them. Okay. And being involved in those relationships and running back and forth among all that and to do that and being you know kind of caught up in that is a state of agitation.

[72:16]

But what if we're not even getting caught up in it? It's just like... If you're not caught up in it then you're tranquil. That's what tranquility is is when you're not caught up in it. So they don't sort of there's no other way for them to enter except to actually be fully conscious. I guess there's times when you know the mind is a tricky thing and it can seem like I'm not caught up in it but sort of the battles out there... It can seem like you're not caught up in it, right, and then it might be possible to test you and find out you are caught up in it. So that would be part of the practice too would be change the context a little bit to see if you're caught up in whatever context you're in. So I guess if you actually thought there's something going on

[73:17]

if I actually went over and did some investigating and saw what arose it could be that I could get very much caught up in it when I'm actually engaged. Yes, that's possible. Another way to put it is you might find out that you were already caught up and you thought you weren't. That you thought you were calm but you really weren't. So if you think you're calm maybe you are even if there's lots of stuff going on. And you could also be quite discursive about what's going on but be calm. And if you're calm and you're involved in certain kinds of discursive thought, you can continue to be calm. As a matter of fact, when you're calm and you start entering into discursive thought again, you notice there's a certain way of being discursive which doesn't disturb the calm. And that type of discursive

[74:18]

is the type of discursive which promotes insight. There's another kind of resumption of discursive thought which disturbs the calm fairly quickly. That's probably not skillful discursive thought. That's probably not insightful discursive thought. So if you are calm and then you pick up some teachings about the nature of mind and the nature of phenomenon, it's possible that you even become more calm as you become discursive about certain teachings. But you're already calm, you know what it feels like. And then you start being discursive about certain teachings, and you also notice that you're getting calmer. And then you can continue to be discursive and get calmer. And more insightful. But if you're calm and then you enter into discursive thought about, for example, how bad everybody else is, and how stupid they are, and how you're much smarter than them,

[75:20]

and if you enter into that kind of discursive thought, even a fairly calm person will start to become somewhat agitated, probably. Now, if you're super calm, you may have to think some really bad thoughts to disturb your calm. So some people are so calm that they can think the most horrendous things and continue to be calm for quite a while. But in some ways the best kind of discursive thought is the kind which actually deepens your calm. But if you're not already calm, it's hard to tell that the discursive thought is calming you. Sometimes. But some people, as I mentioned, they notice that certain kinds of discursive thought, they feel calmer. At least temporarily. Like the loving kindness? Yeah, loving kindness. Or like sewing is a little bit discursive. Simple kinds of sewing. But if you're

[76:20]

going back and forth, in and out, it's a little bit discursive, but relative to the extreme discursiveness that a lot of people are involved in, it's a step way down in discursiveness. It's much more quiet than usual if you'd just be saying, I take refuge in Buddha. I take refuge in Dharma. This kind of discursive thought is a vast reduction in discursive thought. So they already start feeling a little bit calmer fairly quickly from reducing it. So it's attenuating it, attenuating it, attenuating it, down to almost zero. So at first you may have to say to yourself, instructions, you have to have discursive instructions about how to be not discursive. And as you become more calm, in some sense, the discursiveness that you're using to reduce your discursiveness, you're trading in extreme discursiveness for attenuated discursiveness, for attenuated, attenuated discursiveness. You trade it in, you trade it down, down, down

[77:20]

until you have almost no discursive thought. And then that's the place where people say, like, there's no thinking going on. But there still may be still a sense that something's happening. So we don't have full insight because we still think that there's birth and death and so on, but we're down to like very, very attenuated discursive thought. And when we stay there for a while, we always, we sometimes come to the experience of feeling very calm and relaxed and really having lots of enthusiasm for all kinds of wholesome activities that might be offered, that we might have an opportunity to do. So we feel, now we can turn the discursive thought up a little bit and see what kind of discursive thought goes with this feeling of composure and ease and even deepens it, but at least doesn't disturb it too much. Even disturbing it a little bit might be okay. Because sometimes the tradeoff is like we're very calm here

[78:22]

and we do certain kinds of study and it's slightly agitating, but it's so helpful to do this study that I'm willing to do it. It doesn't completely erode the tranquility. But, you know, like listening to somebody suffering or something, a little bit disturbing, but I also feel like I think it's really helpful if I listen to this person's story of their misery, it seems to be helpful to them, I'm willing to do it. But sometimes you might even feel calm when somebody comes to you to tell you and share their suffering with you, and you listen to it and you might even get calmer. Because you're being a little discursive because you can understand what they're saying, you know. This happened, and that happened, and like that, there's some discursive activity going on there. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to understand what they're saying. But you're calm with it and you get calmer, maybe. And that can happen. But you can also get a little bit more agitated and you both feel like, it's okay to listen to this. I still think this is really good to do.

[79:23]

I'm happy to do this. Does that make sense? Does kitchen work within the process? No, that's an exception. And so there's one big topic which I think I can say quickly, and that is please look at this very deep question of what is your commitment for this now it's not even three weeks anymore what is your commitment for the next 19 days or 18 days what's your intention maybe I shouldn't even say for the next 18 days I'd just say what's your intention for today and then if you can answer that, what's your intention for the rest of the practice period what's your vow, what's your commitment what's your responsibility

[80:26]

here in this situation here I'd just ask you to look at that question if you have a moment and if you can answer I'd be happy to hear what you find if you don't, I suggest you might look again now and then what is your intention here during this period of practice together what is your intention and what is your vow and then if you find your intention, do you wish to make some commitment to it could you clarify for me the difference between having the intention and having the game idea well I might have the intention to be kind to respond kindly to everyone but I might not see that as a game as a matter of fact right now I don't

[81:26]

I kind of don't see it as a game to be kind to people just something I kind of would like to be kind now I could get into how it could be a game if I'm kind to people then I might become famous I might become rich I might become popular people might be nicer to me might be good for my health might reduce stress I could get into that but when I first think if I'd like to be kind I could stop there and not think of it as a game possible but if I do see it as a game I still have that intention and I wish to commit to that I still have it even though I notice that I see this looking at it in terms of game is there a lot but I just see that that's part of what I have to be kind about I'm a human being and I often interpret what's going on in terms of what I get out of it

[82:27]

but maybe I could at least before I get too deep I just superficially would like to be kind to someone and I have to commit to that before I get into any kind of getting something from me out of the deal here in the neighborhood so maybe I might commit to that before I find out how devious and tricky and sneaky I am about that and then after I commit to it I find out, oh geez, I was trying to get something out of that but I already put myself in a cage of being kind and now I have to deal with any kind of impure attitude I have towards that yes you were talking about the bird at the beginning is the bird tranquility, is the bird insight what is the bird

[83:29]

I don't know I hesitate to say what the bird is but in some sense I would say it's your mind, it's your heart and if you can put your get your mind into the cage and close the door you know you don't we don't want to push your mind we don't want to push the bird in there roughly we don't want to let the bird come in voluntarily we don't want to force people into this training, right but we want to open the door and put something pretty inside you know, like nice green guts with the ocean nearby you know get vegetarian food nice people you know, California so we want to encourage people into the cage and then we want to have the person close the door once they enter then once they're in maybe they start how did I get in here

[84:32]

but little by little they settle down so the first part is get the mind into some container where it can feel like it's running around and then it settles so I think you could say the bird is the mind which is all over the place but we want to train the mind to enter into the cage voluntarily so that when it after it voluntarily you know voluntarily enters the cage then it says nobody forced me in here and yet I came in here because I wanted to but now I'm trying to get out I came to the place I really wanted to be for one hour or three weeks I really wanted to be here now I really want to go away so you know you struggle with that as you said struggle and then maybe you settle down and when you settle down and then you can paint the cage away and you realize there really is no container here

[85:34]

there is no actual forms but first of all we have to put ourselves inside before we can paint them away so the mind has to sort of like settle before it can realize that the place it's settling can never be found or the heart has to settle before the heart can realize that there can be life without actually being able to get a hold of anything we can live with that but we have to sort of like volunteer for this course now you have volunteered and now you're trying to get out but you might not be able to for 19 more days you might not be able to get out but then after that you'll be able to get out and maybe before you get out the whole thing will disappear and you won't be tricked anymore by any limitation and then you can sign

[86:35]

oh doesn't the top of that character have no no top oh thank you I wrote the character wrong it's like that it's like that that's the way that's the way that's the way thank you if you do this like this you put a hat on it it means true thank you I vow to save them delusions are inexhaustible I vow

[87:40]

to end them the gates are boundless I vow to enter them Buddha's way is unsurpassable I vow to count

[87:58]

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