Um, Today I'd like to meditate on this self-receiving and using awareness and also meditate on the name of the bodhisattva of as it appears in the Heart Sutra.

[01:03]

So we have on the green board, GGU, which could be translated literally as self-receiving and using, self-receiving and functioning, or self-reception and function. And then I wrote the name for the bodhisattva as it appears in the Heart Sutra, which is Kanjizai. This name for Avalokiteshvara, this name for the Bodhisattva, I don't know any place else where this name, any other sutra where this name appears. Probably there are, but I just don't know any.

[02:08]

It's an unusual name for the Bodhisattva. Usually the two most common ones are Ze-an and Kan-an. Right? Kana-zeon means observing or contemplating the world's sounds or the cries of the world. Kana-zeon is to observe or listen to, be aware of the cries, the sounds. But this one is different. It's to observe or contemplate. And this character is also a character used to translate vipassana in Chinese.

[03:19]

It's to contemplate with wisdom, you could say, the self-existence. That's the way to read it. But another way to read it, which the śisra mentioned a couple of days ago, was that the self-existent is one way to translate īśvara. And īśvara means like a sovereign or a lord, like a sovereign deity, īśvara. So, you know, avalokite. Avalokita Ishvara could be the sovereign lord who contemplates from above the world. But this translation into Chinese offers whole new opportunities because by using this self-existence, Ishvara means self-existent. A self-existent one is a sovereign.

[04:23]

That's part of the meaning there. But the way I wish to look at it today is it's contemplation of the self-existent one, you could say, but also contemplation of how the self exists. The bodhisattva who contemplates how the self exists, or the enlightening being which is the contemplation of how the self exists, The bodhisattva who contemplates how the self exists, or the bodhisattva who is the being, which is the contemplation of how the self exists. It's not like there's a bodhisattva separate from the contemplation of how the self exists.

[05:26]

That's what people would usually think. The bodhisattva is a being. It's not like a person, or a rock, or a dog. All of this function . It is the way of being. It's the enlightening being, this way of being, which is the contemplation of how the self exists. That is the bodhisattva. And whenever that contemplation is going on, wherever that contemplation So in this sutra, the Heart Sutra, where it appears, you have the Buddha sitting in meditation. And then you have Avalokiteshvara. You have this enlightening being in the neighborhood or being affected by the Buddha, the Buddha's meditation.

[06:30]

And the enlightening being takes the form of studying how the self exists. So Avalokiteshvara is practicing deeply prajnaparamita. So this... this contemplation of how the self exists has now become very deep. And it's gotten so deep that the vision of how the self exists has become the vision of how the self cannot be found. In other words, in this studying of the self, It's gone so deep that there's been now a verification that the self cannot be found in anything. So this now sees clearly that all things of existence are without a self, are empty of a self. They're all empty of the self.

[07:33]

The Adalokiteshvara this bodhi being has been studying this the name of this bodhisattva is the study of the self and now the study of self has gone so deep that it has realized the study has realized that the self which has been studied cannot be found And the study, when the study realizes that the self can't be found in anything, then also the study realizes that the person studying and the study are not two. So when you talk about the study of the self, that totally includes a person. But it's not the person doing the study. It is the study. And so it says, one translation would be, This kanjizai, the studying of how the self exists, saw. The study, the contemplation saw.

[08:38]

The contemplation sees that there's no self. And when the contemplation sees that there's no self, it's called wisdom. And when this wisdom is like that, that wisdom relieves all suffering. So it's not outlook, it's not a person separate from other people that liberates the other person. It's that vision that liberates. And so far in the Sprite Spirit we've been putting a lot of emphasizing on studying the self through studying action. One of the ways to kanjizai is to study karma, because karma is fundamentally an activity of mind which represents the self in relationship to the world.

[09:40]

Just every moment your mind is active creating or being created in such a way that it manifests within itself, within its awareness, a picture of the relationship of the person to the world. And that's the basic action. And studying that, you see, you'd be studying karma, but you'd also study the self, because karma is a pattern of relationship of the self Yes? Is own being, is that the same as self, the own being? Own being is like a self, yeah? Yeah, so when it says, Vajnaparamita has a clear knowledge of the own being of all dharmas, for she does not stray away from it, does that mean the same thing? She has a clear knowledge of the own being, she understands the self. In other words, she understands that the self cannot be bound.

[10:44]

Most people aren't sure about it. They've heard that the self cannot be bound, Some people have not looked, we think it's there. Other people have heard that it's not there and haven't looked, but still sort of think it's there. Other people have looked a little bit and haven't found it. Some people looked a lot, but she understands that you cannot find it. She doesn't stray away from it. She doesn't stray away from that understanding. Okay. Or she doesn't stray away from the way the self exists. In fact, her name in the Heart Sutra is close to how the self exists, contemplating how the self exists. So in that name, enlightening being is being close to how the self exists. That's what enlightening being is in that particular bodhisattva. And I think I could now shift to another direction before the questions are coming up, which I wanted to do, which is to look at this other contemplation.

[11:56]

OK? Closely related, and the other contemplation also has the word self in it. So the first contemplation, which is the name of the bodhisattva in the Heart Sutra, is literally contemplation of self existence. This is absorption. This is Jiji Yuzanmai. This is the samadhi of the concentration of self receiving and employing, of how the self is received and employed. So it's a very similar type of contemplation. In one case, the self exists. The other is seeing how the self is born or received and functions. So they're very similar names, actually. But there's some difference, too, which I think will be helpful to point out.

[12:58]

I see a relationship that might be helpful. That's my intention right now. is that relationship of talking about this name. So the verbal karma following it and hand gestures. One story of the origins of this term might be that when the Buddha was first awakened on the bow tree, She spent about a week after that just in joy, awake and liberated, tasting the sweetness of liberation for a week. Yeah, I think it's a Samadhi name. the absorption in the sweetness of liberation, absorption in the taste of liberation, for a week, just enjoyed it.

[14:11]

And then a later name for that could be self-receiving and employing samadhi. Receiving and employing is a compound. Enjoying, wisdom enjoying itself. Wisdom quietly illuminating itself over and over for a week. So that's like self-enjoyment, the samadhi of self-enjoyment. Self-enjoyment, in this case, the enjoyment of wisdom, wisdom enjoying itself. It's Buddha enjoying itself. That action of that there is a joy of wisdom illuminating, constantly illuminating itself. And then we also have this term, what is it, Vairocana Buddha.

[15:19]

Vairocana Buddha, Purodhankaya. So Vairocana literally, kind of literally means universal, universally pervading, universally illuminating light, universally pervading radiance. That's what Vajracanth means. So it's the Buddha of universal illumination of the light, or the Buddha of universally illuminating light, Vajracanth. And it's a high-ranking kind of Buddha. It's the pure Dharmakaya. The pure dharma body of Buddha is this universally radiating light. And then people would start by mentioning

[16:22]

that there's two dimensions of this universally radiating light, or two gestures in this radiation, or the circulation of this light. And usually they would mention how this works for the Buddha. But today I'd like to mention how it works not for the Buddha but for unenlightened people, unenlightened humans and non-humans, unenlightened sentient beings. The way it works for sentient beings is that they inwardly illuminate the true dharma world with the light of wisdom. So you have a sentient being inwardly illuminating the true dharma world with the light of wisdom. That's Vairocana Buddha. functioning in a person, in a human, who's not enlightened.

[17:28]

That's the self-receiving and employing experience. Usually they would mention that that's the way it is for Buddha. And it is. But today I mention, first of all, that's the way it is for sentient beings. So, when or that abuddha-tathagata inwardly illuminates the true world with the light of . That's the self-receiving and employing. And to be absorbed in that is the self-receiving and employing samadhi. But it's the same for unenlightened beings. And Then there's also, for unenlightened beings, it's when a sentient being outwardly illuminates all beings and teaches them with of their own body.

[18:45]

And of course, usually they've mentioned that the other side is when the Buddhas, outwardly illuminate all beings and teach them with the light of their . And in some treatises, when they're explaining this Vairacchana, they just mention that the Buddhas inwardly illuminate the true dharma world, illuminate the true dharma world, the one you hear spoken of in what was chanted in the service. That's a picture of inwardly illuminating the dharma world. Usually buddhas are mentioned experiencing that inward illumination, which is very enjoyable, as you might be able to imagine, to have two dharma worlds inwardly, to see how you're appreciating everybody and everybody's appreciating you, to see how everybody's assisting you and you're helping everybody, to see this, to understand, to clearly understand

[19:55]

this imperceptible mutual assistance among people. Of course, the Buddhas do that. But that text we recite says, when you practice a certain way, that happens for you too. But many treatises just mention the Buddha because they're, you could say, not in accord with the Buddhas and the sentient beings being not separate. or they're caught by the distinction between Buddhas and sentient beings. So I just mentioned the Buddhas. I start by mentioning the sentient beings. And then outward, and that's the samadhi. But there's the other one where, and this is not necessarily called a samadhi, because it's kind of hard to to do the other one on the samadhi, but it's not impossible, and that is that you, the unenlightened beings, outwardly illuminate all beings and teach them with the light of our body.

[21:07]

Our body has a light. Now, of course, we know the Buddha, the Tathagata, Tharvajan has a light. That's the Buddha's name. So it outwardly illuminates and teaches all beings with the light of her or his body. In this house, or this school, or this tradition, this samadhi refers to how Buddhas are inwardly illuminating the Dharma world, and outwardly illuminating and teaching, and how sentient beings are inwardly illuminating the Dharma world, and outwardly illuminating all beings and teaching them with the light of their body. So this is like practicing wholeheartedly in delusion of being a sentient being, and in that wholeheartedness, leaping beyond Buddha and sentient being and opening to this absorption.

[22:27]

in this imperceptible mutual assistance, entering into, wholeheartedly opening to the nonduality of sentient beings and Buddhas. The nonduality of sentient beings and Buddhas, you could say, is the womb of our school, the treasury of our school, the source, the spiritual source of our school, is the nonduality of unenlightened beings and enlightened beings. to wholehearted and enter into imperceptible mutual assistance. This is also called to wholeheartedly sit in the treasury or womb of light. This is also called to sit upright and express in your actions of body, speech, and mind, to express the Buddha mudra in your body, speech, and mind.

[23:48]

What's the Buddha mudra? Imperceptible mutual assistance. So when you sit, your body is expressing imperceptible mutual assistance. When you speak, your words are expressing imperceptible mutual assistance. When you make a gesture, your gesture is expressing imperceptible mutual assistance. Your body, speech, and mind are enlightenment in the sense of the silence, the unspoken bond between all beings. Every movement of your body, you move this way, you move that way. And in that action, in that action of body, you express this silent bond between all beings, between all living beings, all unenlightened beings, and between all enlightened beings and all Buddhas.

[25:01]

You express that. Every action expresses that. That's expressing the Buddha seal in this samadhi. You're expressing it and being aware of this. You're aware of this and expressing it. So you're paying attention to your action and connecting your action to the circulation of this light. So you're meditating on light and you're bringing it together with your action. expressing the Buddha's seal, every action. So this sounds like something else I talked about earlier, right? What? Every activity as Buddha's activity. Doing activity as Buddha's activity. Doing every activity as Buddha's activity. In other words, it's all the grandmother mind. So when Dogen was

[26:03]

admonishing Tetsugikai about not having a grandmother mind, he was saying, you don't practice this self-receiving and employing samadhi enough. You're pretty wholehearted in your activity, but you don't seem to be celebrating the non-duality of your activity in the Buddha way. You think there's some Buddha way a little bit different from your activity. But finally he understood that there is no Buddha activity separate from your activity. In other words, his activity became expression of the Buddhist seal. Yeah, so that's enough, I guess.

[27:10]

Yes? Do you have to be conscious of your activity in order to express this, or can it all be? If it's really non-dual, is it also unconscious activity? You don't have to be conscious of the non-duality for the non-duality to be living. Right. But I'm wondering if the hands of the world are the same as the hands that you develop in the monastery. Are you asking if you're not paying attention to... of how you're expressing the nonduality of Buddhist and sentient beings when you speak, if you're not paying attention to that? Well, those sentient beings who are not aware yet, do they have different hands? Is it a different activity or is it the same?

[28:13]

Are you asking, is their activity the same when they're aware or not? Right. Yeah, it's the same. In one case, they have a kind of a problem because they're not aware of what their activity is. In the other case, they're having a really good time. The same activity at that moment. They're just distracted. So then this connects to confession and repentance because one who is devoted to practicing the samadhi then when one doesn't really have a practice that's absorbed in this, if one was committed to this and thought it would be good to be aware of this inner illumination of the Dharma world that's going on all the time, because the Buddha's light is working.

[29:19]

If one wanted to pay attention to that and celebrate that in every action, If one wanted to speak to somebody while simultaneously meditating on the teachings, people do talk to each other, right? They sometimes pay attention, they sometimes don't. Sometimes people, when they're talking to each other, are also aware that there's a silent bond between us and all beings. There's a non-duality between what we're doing and what the Buddha's activity is. If you actually try that out, and decide that you will learn this, and then you forget to do it, then your practice has slipped. If you decide to pay attention to how you exist, you think that would be good because you want to join Avalokiteshvara's way of being. You're still that way, but you've forgotten that you're that way.

[30:27]

So then you can confess, I got distracted. And I feel a little bit bad about it, just the right amount of bad, so now I want to go back and pay attention to it again. The light is actually working through you all the time anyway. And the way it is, is always the way it is. However, as you meditate more, the light does work differently. It's always working differently as you meditate. So the hell beings are also being illuminated by this light, but because they have trouble meditating on it, it illuminates their relationship in a unique way due to their underdeveloped meditation practice. Yes?

[31:30]

I have a question about intention versus action. Intention versus action? Intention versus action. Intention as a kind of mental activity. I have a mental intention to express the Buddha's seal in every action, but I don't do it. Well, the intention to express the Buddha's seal Intention is an action. Intention is the fundamental meaning of action in the type of action which was encouraged to pay attention to. So you said in the beginning, you said intention versus action. Intention isn't versus action. Intention is action. So the intention to do the intention to meditate in a certain way, is and is mental action.

[32:31]

Then at the next moment, you forget about that kind of intention, or you have an intention now to scratch your nose, but you forget about scratching your nose as an expression of the Buddhist seal. At that moment, your intention is to scratch your nose, pretty much, period. I mean, as far as you can see, all you can see is, I just want to scratch my nose, man. Give me a brick. Now, if you look more carefully at the intention of scratching your nose, you will notice that actually, my God, the silent bond between this... Between this, between this sentient being touching his nose, and the Buddha's is realized as I do this.

[33:39]

So you can intend, I intend, every time I touch my nose I intend to celebrate I intend to celebrate the silent bond between me and all beings, and all beings with each other. I intend that every time to celebrate that. And then, as I'm moving my hand, my finger to my nose, I may forget. And with my finger to my nose, I say, what's it doing here? It doesn't even itch. Oh, I remember! I was going to do a little ceremony called Buddha's seal as I touch my nose. But the intention to touch your nose that way, here's an action. So if your action changes, it is a reflection of the fact that actually there's been a change in your intention. Yes. That's clear.

[34:43]

If you watch your intentions, you will notice they're changing. And if you don't watch them, you might think they didn't. So you think you want to practice the Buddha seal. But thinking you want to is an action. Yeah. But then when you don't, that means something else is coming. That's right. When you don't, then other actions occur. So again, in the Chinese hindsight, the word chaitanya, with this, this character, think, it means think, or intended, When you think away, when you think, you want every action, and every moment there's an intention, when you wish in every intention that that intention will express the bond between that intention and all other intentions. The intention to express the bodhisattva in every action.

[35:45]

That is an action to express the Buddhist seal in every action. And then you forget that, and you have an action that somehow has become distracted from this celebration, from this ritual. And you have something to confess if you really were committed. And say, oh, yeah, so my practice is kind of shaky. Once in a while I do it, and sometimes, quite frequently, I don't. And I notice quite a few... I feel happy because I notice quite a few... So then I can confess. But when I confess, I want to make my confession also an expression of a Buddhist sin. I want to make the confession an expression of the perceptible mutual assistance. I want to realize that when I confess, everybody's helping me, and I'm helping everybody. Illuminating my inner Dharma world as I confess, and my confession illuminates and teaches all beings with the light of my body.

[36:52]

And I forget, and I confess." Koen Eijo, he said, most bestial of humans am I. Forty years walking in Chinese fashion on Shashu. Today, don't touch my cousin. You know, I really enjoy seven days. So she was, you know, one of the things was really inspiring was that we talked a lot about back up what she was saying. And there were two questions. You know, being brought up with this soul concept. I can somewhat see the self in this.

[37:56]

Well, my question is, would it be somewhat safe to say that the five advocates is the soul? And my other question is, So two questions. Question number one was, are the five aggregates a self? A soul. Yeah. The five aggregates are not a soul and are not a self. There's no self outside the five aggregates, other than just being one of the five aggregates. And there's no self outside the five aggregates. What do you mean by the five aggregates? Five aggregates are like these components. If you analyze your experience, you may be able to see that they fall into these five categories.

[39:01]

Perception. Perception. Actually, I always say conception. Mental formations, which includes one of the elements of the mental formation is attention, which is the whole pattern. And under the fourth aggregate, they're plunked into the fourth. And then the fifth one is consciousness. Those five aggregates, most people that I know who have actually work with them, I'm pretty well satisfied that whatever anybody's experiencing, you can account for in these five experiential categories. So I mentioned this to Kazan before that I was reading the Gideon Bible, and it has those kind of like topics at the beginning. And one of the topics is the soul. And I looked at it, and I had citations about what the soul is. And most of the citations that I saw of what the soul was in the Bible sounded to me like the pinnacle rising.

[40:11]

So I would say the dependent core arising of the five aggregates is the soul. But dependent core arising isn't a self. Dependent core arising is how things are imperceptibly mutually assisting each other. So I would say the soul. And each of us has our own dependent core arising. Each of us is a different example of imperceptible The way you're helping me and the way I help you makes you. That's our soul, but it's an insubstantial causal relationship. So again, soul is closely related to intention. Intention is your cognitive representation of your soul. In other words, your intention is your cognitive representation of your dependent core rising. So your dependent core rising is how the world, everything in the world, including gives rise to the person.

[41:22]

And each of us has a picture of that every moment. We are made by that process, and then we are made into a conscious product of that process. and then the conscious product of the process of dependent co-ordination is a picture of that process, which is not the process, but it's a picture of it. But it's related, it's based on the actuality. The way you're actually made is the basis of how you imagine you're made. And the way most people imagine they're made is to make themselves, to keep themselves going. and that the environment doesn't really make them, so they feel separate from it. So the representation we have of our interdependence is one of separation, usually. But as you study that more, you will find out there is no self in that soul. I should say there's no independent self in that soul.

[42:27]

There's a self in that field of relationship, just like there's a self of you, that interdependent self. And another kind of look at the soul and dictionary and why the definitions is the animating principle. And this is the pinnacle of rising also. The principle by which you become animated, but rocks also would have souls according to that. Because they have an animating principle too. The causal process by which rocks occur is their soul. In the Bodhidharma eternal, except in the sense that there's always a causal process. But I wouldn't say in five letters there's a soul. We could study rocks. Do you mean? When I say rocks, do you mean? I wouldn't. As far as I know, they don't. actually going on and sleeping. Actually, my understanding about future is when I'll be out moving and all that, we're in some kind of coma state.

[43:35]

When you're dreaming, you're not in a coma state. When you're in deep... When you're in dreamless sleep, you're similar to a coma, actually. Quite similar. And... Sleep, there's various types of consciousness which occur during sleep, but basically they follow the same principles as the waking consciousness, being that there's five aggregates. But usually when we're asleep, we are quite withdrawn from the first aggregate. We're more working on the objective. So when when we're asleep, they register very small, or we convert them in a very different way into images than we do when we're awake. And then sometimes, when we're in dreamless sleep, at that time, we don't make images of the

[44:42]

sensory input. We are having direct perceptions at that time, actually, when we're in dreamless sleep, I would say. Today I would say that. But we don't have any conceptual cognitions going on in dreamless sleep. In dreaming sleep, we're having dreams of conceptual cognition happening in what we call sleep. How you doing, folks? Just joking and staring around. Everett and himself. So, you know, to go alphabetically. Everett? I kind of wanted to follow up on that, because I'm asking about dreams. It seems to me that dreams are a very different kind of intention.

[45:54]

If you wanted to talk about that a little bit. What kind of intentions are there? Well, my experience would be that in my dreams, When I dream, I see an intention. I see that I want to get up and go to Zazen, or I want to touch somebody, or I want to walk through the hills. So I see a picture of my relationship with the world in my dreams, with my eyes shut. And then... in the world, and also between me and the world of Dharma. And when in dreams I see myself getting up and going to zazen happily, I think, oh, this is a nice dream.

[46:59]

I'm even dreaming of going to zazen happily. This is like very auspicious. And if I don't think that when I wake up and remember it, that was a nice dream. But then there's sometimes I've also dreams of where I'm dreaming that I'm late for zazen. I actually have quite good dreams where I'm late to give. Why should I deal with that? Well, I guess it doesn't matter if I never come. Or I try to get there on time. So I think there's an intention in that dream. I usually see intention in my dreams. Does that intention apply to me? It seems to me that what's happening when we're in a dream while we're asleep, what's happening when we're in the world, they typically do something too close together to be dangerous, because what we're doing in a dream is very much more inward, and perhaps not so related to what's outward.

[48:12]

Yeah, well, there's other kind of dreams I have. I dream of flying quite often. But I don't fly by waving or what do you say? I don't flap my wings when I fly. I just go like, I spread my arms out and I basically levitate. But I usually have my arms out and I hover. I hover and then I hover at greater and greater heights. And I'm often also usually kind of like showing off. Saying to people, isn't this amazing that I'm And I sometimes think, you know, this is really one of the real benefits of dreams. Yes. Is that you can do this. And it feels safe, too, you know. I don't like, you know, swoop at high speed. I just kind of hover. It's like a hovercraft. And to bring those two together might be a problem.

[49:15]

Other kinds of stories which are very pleasant in your dream, but if you try to bring them together in the day of life, it might be not appropriate. So we should be careful of that. And then, I guess, Sarah has come next. And which is, alphabetically, I see. No age. So, we come first? Okay. Okay. I wanted to ask about something about this, about the penicillin and studying the intention. And I was remembering how for a while you were talking about the Thaddeus and you were, I don't know if you were recommending, but you were talking a lot about meditating on the central writing. Yes. And now you seem to ...talking a lot about meditating on our attention.

[50:26]

Yes. So I wonder if you could just articulate more clearly. I mean, it seems like, in a way, they're the same meditation, but at the same time, it also seems like they're different if you are talking about setting your mind forward when you're talking about setting your mind forward, I think. Right. That's the biggest thing. Right. Charlie talked to me that one of the characters they use to translate the is a character they used for Carmen, right? Yeah. So the fourth standard is listed in some kinds of mental formations. And sometimes the character they use for mental formations is one of the characters they use to translate karma.

[51:28]

And that's partly because I think the fourth aggregate has dealing. The mental karma, the whole situation. So meditating on karma and meditating on the pinnacle of rising is closely related. The difference is, when you're meditating on karma, you're meditating on your mental representation of the pinnacle of rising. You understand that, maybe, hopefully, that you're seeing your own mental activity as it's representing itself. I mean, as it's representing you in relationship to the world. In some sense, your action is your representation of what you're realizing. Depending on what you're realizing, you can meditate on it separate from looking at your own present intention, which is your own present cognitive representation or depicting or story about you.

[52:39]

Because your picture might not look like the pinnacle rising. When you hear about the pinnacle rising and just meditate on it as a principle, then it's interdependent and nothing exists independently of other things. Everything's only existing independently. But in karma, you have pictures that doesn't look like that. So, One of the things I said when I was talking about studying the pinnacle of rising is notice, hear the teaching of the pinnacle of rising and notice how you do not believe it. In other words, notice how I hear about the pinnacle of rising, it doesn't look like me, like I'm the pinnacle of rising. It looks to me like I'm separate from the causal field. So it is closely related to that. In the previous thing we studied the pentacle rising and then noticed how you don't really see it. The way you don't see it is your karma in an unenlightened state.

[53:45]

The way you don't see the pentacle rising in your mind is your present delusion. So studying your delusion would go with what you're deluded about is that you don't That you're independent. You see you're in addition to your causal network. So that does keep going. Sarah? I'm really appreciating how you're illuminating grandmother mind. And this question keeps coming up. It's the same thing. Yes. As a matter of fact, I thought at one point, not too long, because it's been a long time, very long to find out, I thought, did Dogen write Tenzo Kyokun for Tetsugikai to help him understand grandmother? I thought maybe he did.

[55:01]

But actually, when I look at the date, I don't think so. Because he wrote it, I think, maybe before he met Tetsu Gikai. But the same care, the kind of care that he's talking about in Tenzo Kyo, Tetsu Gikai to apply to everything. Because Tetsu Gikai was a great Tenzo. But even though he was a great Tenzo, he thought, even though he was taking good care of everything he did, he thought that there was some other Buddhism. In other words, he didn't think that his care the monks and the pots and his effort to bring people the food through the snow and that kind of thing, which he did, he didn't think, this is expressing the Buddhist seal. He thought the Buddhist seal was, you know, something more than him trudging through the snow, something more than him washing the table.

[56:03]

He thought there must be something more to Buddhism than just the activity of sentient beings. In other words, yeah, sentient beings and Buddhas aren't separate. He thought that they were separate. And that's not grandmother mind. What's happening to me is what you're describing. It didn't kind of warm my mind. But I had a shallower understanding of grandmother life. But it was just like, it had this quality of warmth. You know, that reservation just came with him. Yeah. Hugely generous means really let everybody be not separate from Buddha. Imagine if you had a chance to meet Shakyamuni or some kind of like Dogen or just a few minutes with Dogen.

[57:08]

Imagine your attention and your generosity and Now how about treating everybody that way? That would be... And also all your actions that way. How about that? Any problem with that? To make every action a ritual celebration of the Buddhist seal. That's to express the Buddhist seal in your actions of body, spirit, and mind. in the speech that's enlightened by those intentions. And then if you don't notice that, you say, oops, sit, go back to work. I was wondering, when you talk about, you're sort of talking about even thinking about our intentions or doing something, for the benefit of all beings and keeping that in mind when you are touching your nose or scratching your nose.

[58:13]

And it reminds me of the expression of putting the head. And I wonder how, can you say something about that or how does that, how do you keep thinking about your intention while you're doing something from actually, you know? Yeah. So how can you make a hand gesture, how can that hand gesture express the bond with all beings without putting something on top of the hand gesture? Right? Exactly. Yeah. So this hand gesture is expressing our bond with all beings. It's one with the hand gesture. It's not on top of the hand gesture. Because this is a ritual. I don't have any hand gestures. In this practice there aren't any hand gestures that aren't rituals.

[59:19]

This is a celebration of our bond. [...] It's not like I'm patting my head and on top of that I'm celebrating enlightenment. This action is a celebration of enlightenment. So, since it's a celebration of the non-duality of all beings, particularly unenlightened and enlightened, since it's a celebration of the non-duality of delusion and enlightenment, we don't want between the action and the celebration. We don't want to make a separation between a birthday party and a celebration. The birthday party is the celebration. The nodding the head is the practice of your imperceptible mutual assistance.

[60:27]

That actually is the practice of it. And without that practice, we hear about this, but somehow we don't get it. We have to get into it, we have to make it practical. And we have lots of practical opportunities, and then we forget. So then we say, look, I forgot. We can actually, you can actually give someone something as not just a gift, but as an expression of your non-duality, with them and with all Buddhas. Because all Buddhas do that too, of course. And that light's coming through you at that time to illuminate that Dharma world, and the light is going out from you while you act that way, and you're celebrating that. You're celebrating the light coming off you and illuminating and teaching all beings.

[61:31]

You're celebrating that by this meditation. And you can forget it. The light's still here. The nonduality's still there. It's just that if we don't practice it, we miss it. What do you mean by practice it then? it through every action. Express it through every action. That's the practice. That's the practice in the midst of this awareness. Tim and Shoho and Maria and Simon and Timo, and it's going to be a while on you. But I see you. We're getting around to you.

[62:32]

You are disappointing. You're disappointing. And Nina. Okay. So I think it's from the salute that my mind, and actually there's some other hand gestures that have certain evil connotations. Sure, sure. I was talking about with somebody this morning, the difference between gosh, show and just watch out for one finger. And I just cut off. Yes? The one-finger gestures? Yes. And I was thinking, well, what is the essence of evil? If we talk about evil, it's never the meal, except for the son. What's the essence of evil? Is it seeing beings as separate things? Is that evil? How does this relate to the action of being?

[63:38]

If you say essence and you don't mean an independent existence, of evil. Because good doesn't have an independent... No dharma has an independent self, right? So good doesn't have an independent self. Still, we can talk about what is good and what is evil. So, did you hear what I said before? So, I'm not saying that... ...the self in independent existence from everything else. Good is a dependent core rising, and evil is a dependent core rising. What we call good is a dependent core rising, or what I call good is a dependent core rising, and what I call evil is a dependent core rising. And part of the dependent core rising of good usually has a lot of tension around it.

[64:45]

And also the commitment to it requires, it makes sense to require or entail devotion to attention and carefulness. Whereas practicing evil does not require attention. With inattention, unmindfulness, and in an intoxicated state, you can do evil. So I speak of it in terms of what's needed for it to happen. Evil, I like the word because it's live spelled backwards. It's kind of our life turned upside down or twisted inside out, or it's contorted our life. So you said, is it just to see yourself as separate? I would say it's not just to see yourself. It's to believe that. Like the word delusion leads to be tricked or deceived.

[65:48]

It's delude, right? False play. So a play of our relationship so that we seem to be separate is kind of false. When it tricks us, it's a successful delusion. And then to be tricked means you believe it, right? The actions which are based on this are... The delusion itself isn't exactly evil, it's just a trick, it's a deception. or that human minds give rise to, given our evolution and so on, but create these false plays of our relationship with the world, where we seem to be separate. That's a delusion. The actions, maybe, that we do based on that, those are evil. Somebody needs your help and you say, you know, I don't care. You're not me. I'm not connected to you.

[66:50]

Somebody disagrees with you, and you feel irritated, and by that disagreement you don't see it as... And then you act on that. You sort of see a relationship, like, I want to avoid this person because they don't agree with me. And that's an action. Think that way. To see, oh, this person doesn't agree with me, and I feel separate from them, but I don't... then the delusion has not functioned so strongly as to cause an evil intention, like, I want to be separate from this person. So then that's not so unsealful, not so harmful, even prior to enlightenment. But you still can have some thoughts, some intentions, some intentions which are actions, which are not actually evil, they're actually kind of good because although you still see yourself as separate, you don't want to get pushed around by that too much.

[67:55]

You don't believe it. Well, you believe it still. You believe you're separate. You want to be kind to the people you feel separate from. Somehow you're on board that much with doing good. And then being kind to people that you feel separate from requires attention because you've got to negotiate the separation enough, step on their toes and stuff. and so on. So see, good can happen even while we're still deluded. And then part of the message of the ancestors is that if you practice good, it means you're paying attention to these patterns of relationship while you still are deluded. As you pay attention to these patterns of relationship while you're still deluded, your vision improves and you start to see not so separate. You start to believe it less and less. So it can be degrees of belief, right? You can be sure that you're separate, doubt that you're separate, be pretty sure you're not.

[69:00]

And then you can actually irrefutably verify that you're not separate. So again, there's a different level of vision. The more you look at your separation and try to be good around it, the better you can see. So when When you see yourself as separate from beings and you don't look at that, study that intention of separation, that tends to lead to actions which tend to lead you to look less and less. So the karma coming from not paying attention to your relationship and being careful with it lead to more and more blindness and less and less looking, which are really just acting out this delusion, more and more under the power of it. And good ones are leading us to be less and less under the power of delusion until finally we realize the non-duality of delusion. Even while the delusion is there, we realize the non-duality with enlightenment. And we also realize the non-duality of self and other.

[70:01]

So then again, the delusion, the appearance of separation, doesn't have much kick. And along with that, you can begin this practice of expressing non-duality even before it looks like that to you. So it doesn't really look like sentient beings are Buddhas, and they're not. But you can still understand maybe that I actually want to join the house of practice that comes from the nothing separate, even though I can't quite see the nothing separate yet. And I'll pay attention to all my intentions as part of that practice. Okay. I don't know who was next. I said my two names. Simon, yes? Yeah. But you all want to finish, yes? When you're talking with Sarah about Grandmother Mind, you're talking about Buddha. Yeah. And the attention would be there.

[71:04]

Yeah. And then imagine that with all being. Yes. And that would be Grandmother Mind. Yeah. Well, not quite. Grandmother Mind would be not only that you treat everybody like Buddha, Not quite, because, of course, that would be good to treat everybody like Buddha. I mean, if you like Buddha. If you hate Buddha, don't treat people like Buddha. But if you not only love Buddha and appreciate the meeting as a precious opportunity and would like to, you know, really give it your full attention, but not too much, you know. I also saw that that there was no Buddhism in addition to your interaction with the Buddha at that time. And then when you treat other people like Buddha, that you see that every action is expressing imperceptible mutual assistance between all beings. It's not just that you treat everybody well, it's that you understand that you're non-dual with them.

[72:09]

But treating people well is is conducive to getting to the point of realizing non-duality. We don't say trash people on the path of non-duality. Being kind to people promotes attention because, again, being kind, you have to be careful. You have to use your awareness. The more you use your awareness, the more you'll be aware that there is some duality and so on. So it's not quite grandmother mind just to be very kind to people or serve them as you would. But that kind of attention can help you notice whether you're practicing grandmother mind, whether you do feel like, ah, this isn't, I can't quite see this action as expressing the non-duality of Buddhas in such a way. Buddhas are something in addition to this hand. That recognition would still be good and introduce it to grandmother mind.

[73:10]

Is it kind of hot here? Well, I don't know who's next, but . No, you can take the pointer. . Absorption in the treasury of light, yes. . Yes. Yes. Well, like it says in the chat, we do a new service. The beings in the six worlds are liberated by this process, by this working, by this imperceptible mutual assistance.

[74:23]

They're liberated by it. This is how they're liberated. But they don't necessarily know. They aren't necessarily practicing it. Even beings who aren't practicing it are liberated by it. And this is the only way anything can go through this imperceptible mutual system. This is how we're liberated. But if we don't practice, human beings, we're in the sixth world system too, if we don't practice, it seems like it's not true. So I'm telling you that this... The Buddha is sending you light right now. You can't stop it. The Buddha's body is emitting a light which is illuminating and teaching you right now. But if you don't practice, you won't get it. Enjoy that. If you do practice, you will.

[75:26]

And also you are emitting a light which is illuminating all beings and teaching them. And if you don't practice, you won't get that. And if they do practice, they will get it. The one who's emitting the light is not practicing. They don't understand that they're emitting a light which is illuminating people. But the people who are practicing are illuminated by those who aren't. The hell beings are illuminating the Buddhas and illuminating the non-hell beings. And the non-practicing realize that the Buddha activity of hell beings. Now, it's also the case that hell beings have a hard time practicing. So it's very difficult for them to practice. Even celestial beings have a hard time practicing. If they don't practice, they don't get this. Therefore, they're attached to their heavenly state. Human beings who do not practice this, even though it's working through them, even though it's abundantly functioning in them, it doesn't appear in their consciousness.

[76:38]

He says no consciousness reaches this, this light. And yet, although no consciousness reaches this, this light can illuminate consciousness. So, Buddhists are totally this light, but no consciousness can reach this thing they're doing. Which is, they're just this light. They're receiving it and giving it all. That's the Bhairavacchana Buddha. And they're practicing in accord with it. They're totally turned on and no consciousness can reach this function. But sentient beings are in the same soup. You know, they're being radiated and they're radiating. But without practice, it's just talk. But when there's practice, it's not talk.

[77:41]

When you actually do something, and you do things all day long, and you do that as a celebration of this amazing multi-dimensional circulation of Buddha's light, At that moment, you get it. Maybe. Yeah? I want to talk about the point you're making. Earlier you said you see how you're assisted by and assisting all beings, right? It isn't that you see it, because Dogi says, all this hardware does not appear within consciousness. You don't really see a dog or a woman. No, no, no. Okay. It's not like a mechanic. It's not much different. It's separate. It's not like you mechanically can take it apart like Lego and put the part back together. This is a very dynamic thing, but you have a sense of it. Did you...

[78:41]

No, you don't have a sense of it. You are it. Yes. You have a sense that you are it. You might have a sense that you are it, but that's not it. That's right. And then you added a little bit casually, you said, and in addition, you are teaching, you know, not only that your action is expression of people's activity, but your own vision. And it sounded to me, my direct experience of the day goes together. Basically, you are telling yourself you're doing what you're doing and there is no extra thing on top of what you're doing. You're just being alive and celebrating life. This is the truth of the term. And the teaching is along with it.

[79:48]

So somebody might, who is ready to see a teaching, have to buy their seats in. And are you saying that there's something in addition to that, to be teaching? I don't think I am. Okay, that's what I thought. So what you just said is like, oh, every being is practicing. The beings in the not-so-conducive realms might not be practicing, but the activity is also Buddha activity, which has the practice of practicing and living the Buddha realm. Yes. So does that mean that, for example, not-so-wholesome actions are also teaching? Not-so-wholesome actions are also engaged in Buddha activity and give often light. So if our teachers are not still, and are not giving the teaching, they're sleeping,

[80:52]

That's also the teaching that we receive. If we want to see it, if we are with the Buddha, we see the teaching through that. Yes, that's right. Anyone standing? Oh, Timo. Oh, Timo and Ryo Timo. Was it Timo? Yeah. At the beginning when you were talking about Kanjizai, In the definition I understood that the study itself is the being who studies the self. Right? Okay. Study the self is the being who studies? No, no, no. That still separates the being who's studying is the studying. The study itself is the being who studies the self. No. You said it and you said it and you said it too much. The study itself is the being, because not the study itself is the being who studies.

[81:55]

Okay, I see that. Yeah, good. Okay. Anymore. Now, that afterwards I understood, you said that this study is that there's not a separate person who studies. Right. Which fits to that. And I wonder, but the person is not separate from the study. Right. Okay. So I wonder the relationship between person and study. Is the person also a being, or is it just a construct over a number of beings? A person is a being. I would use person as a pseudonym for a being. A person is a synonym for being. I would say person or being. So I agree to call a dog a person. Okay, so then I really want, and I make it separate and that's what I will, I have the person and I have that study, the being study and the being person.

[83:07]

Yeah, and that's what I was just talking about a minute ago. He said, the study and the person are not two. Right. Unless the person's not studying. Study and the person are not two. Then the person next door is studying and you're not. Aren't they identical? What? Person and study. When the person's studying, they're not identical because the person's more than a study in a way. That's what I'm looking for. Because the person can... So you would say the person are an aggregate of several beings? That's what I'm looking for, and don't exist as a separate being now, I see. A person is kind of an aggregate of separate beings because each of the skandhas is to some extent a being. But they're kind of being. So when we say beings, they're sentient beings, Buddhas, and non-sentient beings.

[84:09]

So your fingernails is a being. The rocks are beings, but they're not sentient beings. Sentient beings are the whole person. They're not awake. And the elements, the aggregates that make the person, those are, you could call them beings. Each aggregate could be called a being or a dharma. So persons are a composite of a lot of different kinds of being. But those beings are not all the beings. Sentient beings that are, you know, like, your feeling isn't a deluded person. But deluded persons, deluded sentient beings, sentient beings, living beings, offer their own feelings. So the person being, if that is a composite of beings, I wonder what is the difference in the connection of the beings of a person that make it a human being?

[85:20]

in contrast to beings from separate persons, which are obviously not connected, so we make a separate unit person out of it. Mm-hmm. Did you understand the question? No? Well, maybe you could... I think the question's pretty clear that it's complicated. Okay. So I wonder what is, if we say that a person is a composite of beings, I wonder what sort of connection, what's the nature of the connection of the beings in a person that makes us making them separate from another person, which has Different, which is a composite of, I don't know, other beings. Okay, could you stop for a second? Yeah. So you said separate, okay? You don't have to say separate. But that's what makes other things, that's why.

[86:26]

You could say different, and then we deal with separate. The thing that makes separate is very simple. What makes that is delusion. What did you say? Delusion. Delusion makes it simple. The person is not separate from the other people. The person is different from other people. Okay? So what makes this composition different from other compositions? Okay? In other words... They're not separate, just different. Do you get the question now? Why is it... It starts with the body. Okay? And bodies exist in this thing called space and time. And your body's over there in a different place from my body. Okay? So, this body receives... It becomes at some point a sensitive body, and this sensitive body gets stimulated by the environment. And your sensitive body, because we're together here now, your sensitive body also is stimulated by the environment.

[87:32]

And we both of us have... This body and this body have past cognitions as conditions for the arising But the arising of my cognitions depend on my body being stimulated and responding and dancing with the environment over here in a different way than your body's dancing with the environment where you are. That's what makes us have different cognitions. And we have different bodies that have different cognitions, and we have different five elements. Yeah, that to me sounds very much. I don't get at this point when you explain it like that, that these two bodies are not separate. What I hear when you explain it like that, that you have a different body from me and it has a different input. Thank you. It sounds for me like that. You got it? Did everybody get it? It sounded separate, right? But you missed the point that my body arose from the environment in which you were stimulating me. You make me. You're not. You make me.

[88:34]

I got body. I'm not a being until my body gets turned on and you turn on. That's all. We're not separate. And I turn you on. You never exist. You never get turned on without me. Exactly. Somebody said, that's a song. You never can turn down without me as long as we're together. We are together. We created you because you're my environment and I cannot be without my environment stimulating me. And then we go from there. And we have mental activity, which I have a picture of my relationship with you. So you also contribute to consciousness, which then has a picture of how I'm related to you. So you even contribute to my karma. And then my actions of speech and posture that come from there, they have consequences for me, but also they make you.

[89:44]

That's how we're not separate, but we're different. Without different beings, we wouldn't exist. But there's no separate beings. There's no separate beings, but there are different beings. There is somebody beside me. Besides me, there's somebody besides me, and it's my life. It's not separate, it's different. Food is not the same as me, but I need it. Without it, I ain't here. Yeah. My question is to do with the treasury of light. Yes. And I'm thinking that it would be, for example, you were using earlier with hand gestures. It's really beautiful the way you were moving very consciously and slowly and talking about our practice. As you were going through that, delivery, I kind of had this division in my mind of light, and my question is, imagining light, you know, of course, have different frequencies, and tension to one's movements, I'm wondering if this treasury light and Buddha's energy that comes forth through us actually travels at different speeds and have, like, different, maybe, like, behind it

[91:17]

based on our intention, what the actual gesture is, what the intention might be behind it. In other words, like someone can gashow and have a very sincere gashow, or they can gashow, not that anyone here would do that, but they can gashow and there'd be like, actually energy, you know, like, I mean, we all, you know, we're all, yeah. Okay, so one person got showing to say, I respect you, I appreciate you. The other person is saying, you look like the inconvenient thing you got shown to you, so I'm going to do it now. It bothered you. This got show is primarily to... There's two different intentions empowering those two gestures, right? Okay, so now what's your point? Well, I guess my question is, within the treasury of light that you were describing, are there, I mean, is this something that one, at a certain stage of enlightenment, can see and like colors of light, or?

[92:22]

In this example you gave, okay, so if I found myself joining my poems and bowing to someone to, you know, to express my respect for them, I would do this, gosh, not just to express my respect to them, as an expression of our nonduality. And not just the nonduality between me and a person, but between these two people, one of whom is a sentient being, and I would be expressing the nonduality between this person and a Buddhist, and I would use this gesture of nonduality. And that nonduality is the light. Buddhist light is the non-duality, and it's also what illuminates the non-duality and teaches the non-duality. So when I speak to you, and while I speak to you, I'm practicing the non-duality of you and me and the Buddhas.

[93:25]

The Buddha's light is coming in. It's being practiced and realized in that way of being. The light is still there, whether I practice it or not. But without practicing, it's not realized. That's why we say practice. It becomes real when I remember, while I'm talking to you, that you and I are not separate from Buddha. I guess the reason I ask is that sometimes if, like, if the feeling is actually, you know, sometimes you can actually feel a very different intention. You can feel it? Yes. And maybe that's just my mental construction. Okay, so let's say you do. So if I have that feeling, I guess my question is, I'm just wondering, within this treasury of why, I mean, is there actually a different frequency coming forth from that intention? It feels... That's why I'm asking. Is there a different frequency coming forth from what intention?

[94:28]

Other beings' intentions do affect us. Other people's intentions may affect us differently. And as I'm influenced, for example, by you, moment by moment, this samadhi, this meditation, is to see that my action of receiving my experience of you and having a sense of my relationship with you, that that action is expressing the non-duality of these people and the Enlightened Ones. And intentionally, you're devoting this interaction to the Buddha way. I'm making this interaction with these particular influences that are going on between us.

[95:34]

I'm remembering grandmother mind while we're talking to each other. And then we have a different type of influence, which may be more or less enjoyable, But no matter how enjoyable it is or how unenjoyable it is, grandmother mind is that intense memory of how important it is to make this another moment of celebrating your non-duality. Grandmother does not have to try to remember her grandchildren. It's easy. When you could remember the kind of memory which we remember that every moment Every moment, you're celebrating the Buddha Way. Every moment, you're celebrating this light, which is coming off you. This non-duality, you're celebrating it. That's meditation. Through all the variations of colors and frequencies and stuff that twist us and turn us and flip us around.

[96:35]

That happens to us. Well, what am I supposed to remember again? Oh, God, you know? Oh, non-duality of what and what? The more you practice, the more you can remember as you get spun around, which we want, right? I want to remember when I have Alzheimer's, when my mind gets, like, turned inside out. Somehow I have this practice. of celebrating this so that the celebration goes on and I don't even have a mind anymore. Alzheimer is blood coming through the Alzheimer person and often it happens there too. And there's a practice there that goes on even as the mind changes in that way. This is my commitment.

[97:37]

in the direction of losing my facilities. It's getting close to 11, and we have a couple of new people raising their hands. Yes? Going back to Timo's discussion a little bit, sometimes then... In my own experience, the feelings come up of difference. A difference? What kind of example? Well, what I'm calling a sense of separation. Oh, separation, not difference? Well, the discussion pointed to this ability of identifying those feelings as... as coming from this mutually arising sense of difference and that I'm adding this sense of separation onto it unnecessarily and that the pain of that sense of difference is from the addition of onto it.

[98:41]

I think so. So that when that appearance arises to bring it back to the place of the naturally arising sense of difference without the addition would alleviate the pain. That's correct. However, before that belief and enchantment by the appearance of separation, before that's been overcome and seen through, we practice in that delusion, prior to this realization, this vision of the find the ability of this separation, while you're experiencing the separation, that you practice wholeheartedly, even in that painful sense of separation, that you make the pain of feeling separate from somebody an opportunity to make that painful experience of celebrating the non-duality of you and the Buddha, and them and the Buddha.

[99:45]

And that doesn't involve denying the difference at the origin of the... Excuse me, you said difference again. That's what I'm asking. You don't deny the difference, and you don't deny the pain. In other words, that's the thing about being wholeheartedly practicing. You're not excluding anything of what it's like to live in delusion. And if we can wholeheartedly practice in delusion, that's what you could do if you understood non-duality. And so it's hard for us to practice wholeheartedly in delusion, and that's what it's like when you don't understand duality. But as you get closer and closer to wholeheartedness, You get more and more like it would be if you understood that this painful state, this non-dual with the undiluted, peaceful state, because you're so wholeheartedly willing to practice in delusion.

[100:51]

But that can also draw into that the encouragement to practice in delusion is because of the non-duality. Delusion goes someplace else to practice. And, you know, we do sometimes think about that, I understand. Does that take care of it? It does, and I'd like to say something additional. They're laughing so much. I'm making it harder for you. She's doing something around here. It's just that it seems like this gives me a way to not take difference or the appearance of difference as a kind of to shore up a feeling of separation. That's what I... Good. However... That's good. However, having...

[101:54]

lots of evidence to shore up this, your belief in separation. Okay, so separate, but you're like totally like, we're really separate. Okay. Now that's going to be very painful. Like I'm totally separate from you. Like you're like nothing to do. Shore that all the way up, you know. And then, okay, I'm going to practice wholeheartedly that. Because this, this full tilt, boogie separation is non-dual with the Buddha. So it's okay to turn down the sense of separation. That's non-dual with Buddha, too. Sort of a mild, garden-variety separation, spread in heavy metal, trashy. Either way, it's the wholeheartedness that counts, the wholeheartedness. And you've got the delusion, and the wholeheartedness opens to the fullness of it. But if it's mild, That's fine. There can be mild moments.

[102:55]

But don't miss those. Don't say, well, they're so mild, I don't know. They're non-dual, because they're kind of not that uncomfortable. So when it's easy, practice, make that a ritual. And when it's hard, yes, this is going to happen. I'm going to practice with this, too. And again, the more wholehearted you are, the more when they push you into the next chamber, you'll be able to, better chance to like, okay, this is another opportunity. But what you say is true. I suppose you're not recommending anything at least. I'm recommending you practice with that, and when it's easier, practice with it. And that will get you ready for like, okay, Catherine, can we turn up the intensity of the belief now and see if you can practice with total delusion.

[103:57]

You can say, no, thank you. Maybe later. Okay, it's getting close to 11. Any new people? Who? Who points? Brian. Brian? Well, Brian. I actually raised my hand to say that Sherho's name had been called, but she was skipped. Okay. Sherho. Sherho. Brought to us by Brian. Um, I just want to, um, actually I want to have to completely want to reify what you just like to say about... You want to reify something? Yeah. Oh, future. I'm getting that. Sorry, so... Actually, I accept your suggestion.

[105:01]

Should I forget it? Did that melt away the root of transgression? I was hoping it would help me, I think. You were hoping that your demonstration of the attempt to reify would help everybody? Probably it would. You want to do it? Okay, here's Shoho making... Shoho. Thank you. Thank you. I have to say, practice, you mentioned practice quite a bit. To reify practice, is that like having each moment receiving a moment of the sixth consciousness of knowledge? Each moment you receive a conceptual knowledge, and each moment we are adjusting this knowledge to a correct belief. So we are like each moment, applying our knowledge to a correct belief, if you take it as such, it could be different, right?

[106:13]

But now we'd say it's a non-duality of things. And you do that so long till you see it. You see it as a fixed consciousness, maybe. Is that practice? That's a good one. You know, I was having trouble following that. It was a little complicated for me. Could you break it up into parts or something? It still should be helpful for beings. So if it's not helpful, it's a problem. So the idea was that practice, so the reification of practice, that's the attempt right now. So we have this consciousness that each moment conceptualizes our experiences. And part of this works out that I'm taking myself as a reference point.

[107:17]

But anyhow, I think it's a moment, and it's a dual thing that's happening. And the practice would be to take a correct belief, like to claim non-duality, and to to each moment take what is and turn it over to the correct belief and then so adjust our each moment experience and conceptualization to the correct belief till we really see it correctly. I wonder if that's practice. You're wondering if that was reifying what you just said? No, I wondered if that could be a description of practice. That sounds like a valid and potentially very beneficial practice, as you described it, and not that different.

[108:20]

Exactly. Yeah. I understand what you mean by reifying. Reifying in the sense of like... Reifying usually is used to make things substantial, right? Right. But it's happening each moment, and so... So if you would make practical and substantial. I didn't see how that would make it substantial, but it sounded like... Well, because it always could be, if it's conceptually, in the conceptual realm, I mean, that could be reapplied. Like, it could be... I'm not seeing what the reifying function is here. I don't quite see it. I see it looming in the neighborhood, but I can't see it hitting ground yet. Because you were saying that we know it's actually not conceptual. So whatever we are knowing is conceptual. I'm getting lost again.

[109:22]

You said whatever we're knowing is conceptual, but we don't just know things are conceptual, right? Right. So what did you mean when you said whatever we're known is conceptual? Just repeating the correct belief, I heard you whisper a dual thing, but the inconceivable cannot be known. And it's beyond our knowledge. How would you say that? Yeah. And so I thought of that. I was like, well, I could say my love. Inconceivable may be beyond your knowledge, but things that are conceivable are not. And things that are conceivable are not necessarily conceived. For example, sense perception is conceivable, but it's not conception. It can be conceived, but without conceiving it.

[110:23]

you can have a direct experience that hasn't been conceived, that you can conceive of it. At that moment, though, that is immediate, it's not being conceived. So you know it, but it's not inconceivable because you can conceive. But some things are inconceivable. A correct belief is probably something that conceives of it. I don't know. But colors are conceivable. Touches are conceivable. But you can know them without conceiving them. But then after you know them without conceiving them, then you can know them conceptually after that. So we do know things that aren't . No. We do know things not through conception. You said we only know things through conception. You know things through direct experience and conception, mostly two ways. But we do all know, we all know non-duality right now.

[111:29]

But some things, some things cannot be conceived. Okay? They cannot be conceived. But we know them. And they're working on it all the time. For example, this light is inconceivable. The way we're illuminating each other The actual light is inconceivable. We're talking about it, conceiving of it, that the actual light, the actual way that you're illuminating me, being inwardly illuminated by Buddha's wisdom to show you the Dharma world, the way that's actually happening is inconceivable. It's imperceptible. And that is what we're talking about meditating on. I know it. We know it. Without... Without contact right now.

[112:30]

We know it already. We know it already, but we don't know that we know it. And that hurts. Is that enough for you then? Is that too stuff? He don't want me to. I don't know if he wanted me to, but he told me to. And I didn't follow his instructions. OK. You are in friendship.

[112:59]

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