So, today I'd like to begin by talking about the 39th ancestor in our lineage, Yunzhu Daoyin. Yunzhu is the name of the mountain that he set up or sat on top of to teach and Daoyin is the monk's name. I'll be reading stories from primarily the book which is called The Transmission of the

[01:01]

Light which was compiled by the 51st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th ancestor, Keizan Jokin Daisho. So, this 39th patriarch, Daoyin, studied with Dengxian. And the case of this entry in the book of Transmission of the Light says that Dengxian asked Daoyin,

[02:05]

what is your name? And Daoyin said, Daoyin. And Dengxian said, say it from beyond. And Daoyin said, if I speak from beyond, I cannot say that I am Daoyin. And Dengxian said, that is the same answer I gave when I was with Yunyan. A fairly simple story, right? And it's a little

[03:12]

bit complicated though what's actually going on here for a number of reasons. One is that, as I'll show you, in the text it depicts the first meeting between Dengxian and Daoyin and then it says that after this initial encounter that the one I just read to you then occurs. So this main story here of the relationship between these two people is said to have occurred as sort of the conclusion of their first dialogue. However, it also says at the end

[04:16]

of this section of the book that this same dialogue happened when Daoyin entered the teacher's room to receive Dharma transmission. So one possibility is that this dialogue happened, this fairly straightforward dialogue happened between them upon their first meeting and then dialogue was repeated at the time that Daoyin formally received the transmission of the teaching. Another possibility is that it's a mistake in the text, that they don't really

[05:17]

mean or they don't mean to imply here that this dialogue happened right after the first dialogue, that there was a space of number of years between the first dialogue and then the story which I just told you. Another thing that occurs to me about this story is that it's pretty straightforward, especially the first part about what's your name and he says my name is Daoyin. I could imagine asking some of you what's your name and you might say oh my name is Daniel or my name is Martina and then I would say to you say it from beyond and I could imagine some of you saying if I speak from beyond I cannot say that my name is Daniel.

[06:19]

I could imagine you saying that. Seems possible. And I could even imagine myself saying that was the same answer I gave when I was with Shogaku Shinryu. Daoyin left home to become a monk when he was still young. He became a fully ordained monk when he

[07:28]

was 24 and his teacher had him study the scriptures of the individual vehicle, the vehicle of the saints, but he didn't like them so he left them and went traveling and he arrived at Sui Wei monastery and asked about the way from the teacher Sui Wei. It so happened that a monk arrived from Yuchang and vividly recounted Dongshan's teachings and in the end Daoyin went to Dongshan and Dongshan asked him, where do you come from? And Daoyin answered, I come from Sui Wei.

[08:29]

Dongshan says, what does Sui Wei say to his students? Daoyin said, one time Sui Wei was making offerings to the arhats, to the saints and I asked, you are making offerings to the arhats but do you think they will come and accept the offerings? Sui Wei asked me, what do you eat every day? After hearing the story, Dongshan asked Daoyin, did he really say that? And Daoyin said, yes. And Dongshan said, you didn't meet that adept in vain. And it says that then he said to Daoyin, what's your name? And so on.

[09:39]

We say these days Buddhas and ancestors and we say we have this lineage of all these ancestors and this is our English translation of a Chinese character which 10 years ago we used to say patriarchs but as part of our ongoing questioning of the abuses of the patriarchy we thought, how about saying ancestor instead of patriarch? And recently, or a couple of years ago anyway, I met the Zen scholar Cezanne Yanagida and he said, well ancestor isn't really such a good translation of that word although it's one of the things that that Chinese character means. It means ancestor, it also means patriarch, it also means founder,

[10:55]

and it also means pioneer. And in China to use that character for ancestors is okay under certain circumstances but in the context of Zen practice to call these people ancestors doesn't quite work because these people are not just any old ancestors, they're particular ancestors and they had a particular role as leaders and as founders. So he said that founder would be better than ancestor. If you don't want to use patriarch, how about founder? But I, looking it up in a dictionary, finding pioneer, I thought that, I like pioneer actually. Pioneer means somebody who goes into some unknown territory or some unclaimed field and settles

[12:04]

or founds a way of practice. So Buddhas and pioneers I like. It also of course has this quality of we're kind of pioneers certainly here in the West. Clearly often translates to Buddhas and Zen adepts. So pioneer is derived from an old French term which means someone, a foot soldier, who sent in advance to clear the way. And it's derived even further from one who has big feet or broad feet. Like sometimes if we're hiking out of Tassajara in deep snow,

[13:12]

it'd be nice to send somebody with big broad feet ahead of you to make a path. This is also the root of the word peon. Peon means that too, it's originally somebody, a foot soldier, who sent ahead to clear the way. So these people are trailblazers. Each generation opens a new way, clears some new space that hasn't been claimed before, goes into some unknown territory. And here in this original story, although it looks fairly straightforward, this is an example of some words between people that cleared some space in unknown territory. The teacher says, what is your name? Takes a little step into the unknown,

[14:22]

inquiring, what will he say? What will his name be? I wonder what his name is. What's your name? So he gives back his name, Daoyin. Then he says, ask it from beyond, say it from beyond, go into the unknown and speak it. Be a pioneer right here, right now. And Daoyin does go into the unknown and says, from the unknown, speaking, I cannot say I'm Daoyin. And then Dungshan says, although you have just gone into new, uncharted, unknown areas, you gave the same answer that I did when I was with my teacher.

[15:26]

The feeling of freshness is the same. Here's another story about them, which I think has the same quality of scouting out the unknown together. One day Dungshan said to Daoyin, where have you been? And Daoyin said, walking in the mountains. And Dungshan asked him, what mountains are fit to live in? And Daoyin said, what mountain is not fit to live on? So up to here we have pretty much familiar Zen teaching.

[16:42]

Where have you been? Walking in the mountains. Now he asked, what mountain is fit to live on? Well, according to Genjo Koan, the way starts from here, but this is a suitable place to build our practice. Wherever we are is fit to live on. But now again, the wonderful teacher goes a little further and says, in that case you have taken over the entire country. A subtle fraud, a little bit further, not too far, but a little bit of a step forward.

[17:47]

Can you feel that? And Daoyin says, no I haven't. I haven't taken over the entire country by saying what mountain is not fit to live on. Then Dungshan says, if that's so, have you found an entry path? And Daoyin said, there is no path. Dungshan said, if there is no path, how could you meet me? Daoyin said, if there were a path, we could never have met. Dungshan said, hereafter not 1,000, not even 10,000 people will be able to restrain you.

[19:06]

So, reading this story to you now, I feel that this is a story about telling the truth. It's just my feeling about it. And also I feel in this story a give and take between two people, an effort to test the space between them, and they seem to have found something really wonderful together. And reading you this story, I did not plan this story teaching me what it has just taught me.

[20:41]

I did not plan on learning anything from reading you this story, but I feel I did. And from what I've studied about the teaching about the fourth precept of no false speech, I feel like this little dialogue is a wonderful example of no false speech. And if it is a good example, or just an example, then I also feel no false speech takes a lot of attention, a lot of alertness, it takes courage, it takes attentiveness, respect. Listening, takes all that. And it gives all that.

[21:59]

And one day Dao Ying was accompanying Deng Shan, and they came to a stream, and Deng Shan asked Dao Ying, is the water deep or shallow? And Dao Ying said, it's not wet. And Deng Shan said, course, fellow. And Dao Ying said, how about you, teacher? And Deng Shan said, not dry. Do you remember that other story about Deng Shan? He was walking along with his spiritual uncle Mi, and they came to a river, and Deng Shan said to Uncle Mi, Uncle Mi, how is it upon the occasion of crossing the stream? And Uncle Mi said, the feet don't get wet.

[23:06]

And Deng Shan said, such a venerable old person as yourself, and you still talk like that? And Uncle Mi says, well, how about you? And Deng Shan said, the feet are not wet. I don't mean to put any pressure on you people, but between the time you heard that story about Uncle Mi, and now when you heard the story about Dao Ying, when you've been crossing the river together, has anybody had any conversations with their friends about the occasion of crossing the streams? I have neither. I crossed the stream with some people recently, and I did it in silence, but it was quite an occasion. Now, the first time we crossed, we both took our shoes off. And doing that, I noticed that it was kind of slippery. I put my feet on the rocks with the algae on top and so on.

[24:10]

Next time we crossed, I kept my shoes on, and she took her shoes off. So from then on, every time I crossed, I had to wait for her to take her shoes off and go across very slowly, because it's much more stable to have my shoes on. It wasn't slippery at all with my shoes on. I was kind of dashing through the water with my rubber-soled Nike. But we didn't talk about it. I'm kind of sorry now. I didn't even think of it. I thought crossing the stream was good enough. It was. But next time, I'll try to have a little dialogue before going across. In the middle's nice, too. And then on the other side. Yeah. Now comes a story about these two guys,

[25:15]

which is not so ordinary. I hesitate to tell it, but... Well... I think you can stand it. Don't compare yourself to this now. Okay. Or go ahead, compare yourself. So... What happened here? So one time... What's his name? Dongshan. You remember, Dongshan was first recognized by the great teacher Nanchuan when he was a young monk. So Dongshan said, Nanchuan asked a monk what scripture he was reading. And the monk answered that he was reading the scripture on Maitreya's appearance in the world. Everybody know who Maitreya is?

[26:16]

Maitreya is the name of the Bodhisattva who's living in Tushita heaven. Everybody know about Tushita heaven? Well... Tushita heaven is one of the best heavens. It's a place where the future Buddha hangs out and all kinds of other wonderful things happen there. It's one of the nearer heavens. So right now, according to Buddhist whatever, the future Buddha, the next Buddha in the next eon is living up in Tushita heaven and this Buddha's name is Maitreya, Bodhisattva or whatever. So Nanchuan asked him what scripture he was reading. This monk's reading a scripture about Maitreya's appearance in the world. And Nanchuan said, this is Dongshan telling Tao Ying about a story about Nanchuan. So then Nanchuan says, will he appear? And the monk said,

[27:19]

right now he is in the celestial realm and he will appear in the future. That's what I just told you, the regular Buddhist story. Nanchuan said, there is no Maitreya either in the celestial realm or on earth. Tao Ying said to Dongshan, if there is no Maitreya either in the celestial realm or on earth, what does the name mean? Hearing this, Dongshan's seat quaked and he said, Tao Ying, once when I was with Yunyan, I asked him a question and the fireplace shook. Today I was asked a question by you and my whole body is dripping with sweat. So,

[28:21]

sometimes a student makes the teacher's body drip with sweat and shakes his little seat or whatever size seat it may be. Then Nakaizan says, there is no difference in question and answer between the teacher and the disciple here. Now, I want to tell you another story about Tao Ying, one that I encountered when we published the book Timeless Spring, which I've kept in mind as a precedent for when monks at Tassajara want to go be hermits. So now, after all this happened, right? So, after they had all this dialogue and relationship

[29:22]

and Tao Ying had been recognized as the foremost among all of Dongshan's students and an enlightened disciple. Tao Ying built a hut and did not come to the monastery for 10 days. Dongshan asked him, why don't you come here and eat these days? And Tao Ying said, every day spirits bring me offerings. And Dongshan said, I thought you were an enlightened person but you still have these kinds of views. Come tonight to visit me. That night, Tao Ying went to Dongshan and Dongshan called out, Oh, hermit, Tao Ying. And Tao Ying replied,

[30:24]

Yes. And Dongshan said, without thinking of good, without thinking of evil, what is it? Tao Ying returned to his hermitage and sat silently in Zazen. After this, the spirit came but could not see him. After three days, the spirit left. I don't know how much I should say about this, but anyway, people, some, this very advanced Zen monk goes out in the woods and celestial beings bring him offerings

[31:26]

of some form so he doesn't need food anymore. When his teacher asks him what's going on and he tells him, his teacher says, this way of seeing things is quite surprising coming from someone like you and gives him this practice of without thinking of good, without thinking of evil, what is it? To sit with quietly and that stops whatever that stuff is. I don't want to explain anything really. I leave that with you to think about what does it mean and what does that have to do with being off on your own being a hermit. And this story is part of why I've been very hesitant about people being hermits at Zen Center. Why? If somebody like this couldn't handle it, then what about people like us? So it makes me wonder

[32:27]

if we really, you know, need to do that until we really have good understanding. So after the spirits no longer came to feed Daoying, one day Dongshan asked him, what are you doing? And Daoying said, I'm making bean paste. Miso, right? And Dongshan said, how much salt are you using? And Daoying said, I added a little. Dongshan asked, how does it taste? And Daoying said, it will do. Someone said that

[33:33]

one of the characteristics of Buddhism is that you eat before enlightenment and after. After. Some people have views about other than this. I think some people think that after enlightenment you wouldn't eat anymore. Therefore they want to stop eating now. Or after enlightenment or if you don't eat, maybe you'll get enlightened and then you won't have to eat afterwards either. Or maybe then you can start eating and really enjoy it. Various theories I've noticed. But it seems like something happened. Right now? The candle's leaking?

[34:36]

Anyway, I suggest from what I've seen of the way of the Buddhism, Zen pioneers, they eat before and after awakening. Doesn't mean you have to stuff yourself incessantly, but that's why we have a Tenzo Ryo, that's why we have a kitchen is to feed people before and after enlightenment and you can't tell who's who by whether they're eating or not. Another time Deng Shan said to Dao Ying, if someone completely without Buddha nature commits the five unpardonable crimes, how could she take care of her parents? Five unpardonable crimes are to, I think, kill a Buddha, kill your parents,

[35:45]

I don't know if there's two, like kill your mother's one and kill your father's another one, I don't remember. Create split in the Sangha and claim enlightenment without a certificate. Just kidding. To claim enlightenment without, you know, proof. And you know one of the main proofs of enlightenment is eating. What's up, Doc? I'm enlightened. Anyway, if a person completely without Buddha nature commits one of these, commits these five deadly sins, how can this person take care of his parents having killed them? Dao Ying says, Dao Ying says, this person observes filial piety

[36:48]

for the first time. After this, Deng Xiang gave his complete approval and made him head monk of the monastery. So, I think those stories were pretty much in sequence and you can see some development there perhaps. And that brings me back to the first story again. So, we're being told that there's this sequence about what I just demonstrated and then it says that after all that then when when Dao Ying entered

[37:50]

the pioneer's room for Dharma transmission and to receive the Dharma intact, Deng Xiang made a point of asking him, what's your name? Dao Ying. And of course if it's this time they've been together for quite a while he knows his name. In any case, he's making a point to ask him something he already knows and perhaps he's also repeating the earlier dialogue and Dao Ying says Dao Ying again. Keizan says even if he were asked over and over countless times he would still have to say Dao Ying it would still be Dao Ying. Dao Ying made no excuses

[38:52]

and even though Deng Xiang did not disagree with this response in order to help him in order to help him tell whether or not Dao Ying had the capacity to pass through barriers and escape convention he said, say it from beyond. And again Keizan says this guy Dao Ying lacked discriminating consciousness now. He was like someone whose face is missing or a straw dog and he said if I say it from beyond then I cannot say I am Dao Ying. And again Keizan says this is extremely difficult

[39:58]

to reach and if a student has not reached this realm she lacks the power to proceed she will still be confused by false views. Because Dao Ying guarded this realm this difficult to reach realm carefully he was able to have this conversation about this person without Buddha nature who commits the five unpardonable sins. Now when I say things like this I think maybe people will get discouraged when they hear how difficult it is to reach this realm

[41:00]

and in fact isn't it difficult when someone says to you if someone who lacks Buddha nature kills her parents how will they take care of their parents? It's difficult maybe for you to imagine being able to say that's really taking care of your parents it's not so easy to say that it's the same realm as what's your name? Dao Ying So it's extremely difficult to reach but it's very close to where you already are because if someone asks you what your name is don't you say Daigon or Eva that's what he said and if you guard that state of ordinariness you perhaps will be able to not be caught by convention in the end

[42:14]

in the end Kevon says what can I say today so that you will fully understand this story and after a while he says never has it been bound to names and forms how can you speak of beyond or relative so there's the stories about Dao Ying and Dung Shan Dung Shan Dao Ying was the disciple of Dung Shan whose lineage has survived Dung Shan had other disciples and one of the other disciples was named Cao Shan

[43:15]

and Cao Shan was a great scholar and very famous as a matter of fact the name of the school is made by using Dung Shan's name and Cao Shan's name the school is called Cao Dung school in China or Soto they used Cao Shan's name because Cao Shan was very famous Dao Ying was not famous his lineage was is the vital lineage of Soto Zen but he was not famous therefore the school was not named after him along with his teacher and someone said the reason why he's not famous was because this thing he took care of this realm of what's your name Dao Ying this realm nobody ever gets famous for taking care of that he was a wonderful pioneer

[44:16]

he took care of the real life of Buddha Dharma but nobody's interested and nobody should be even though it's exactly what we must take care of it's not a matter of interest it's a matter of telling the truth that's all so of course I want the stories of the 39th pioneer to fit in with the 4th precept because that's what I'm talking about now but I think they help me out I think these people were speaking the truth I don't think this stories are false speech I don't see any lies in these stories sometimes seeming ordinary sometimes seeming extraordinary but anyway may I have your permission

[45:28]

may I have your permission to not talk about the 4th precept if you want to uncross your legs or something make yourself more comfortable that's fine with me you have permission I have your permission too the 4th precept is called no false speech has all inclusively turned there is no excess there is no deficiency one complete moistening of sweet dew bears fruit as actuality and truth this is his instruction

[46:28]

on receiving and teaching this precept the dharma wheel has exclusively all inclusively turned there is no excess there is no deficiency one complete moistening of sweet dew bears fruit as actuality and truth another translation is the dharma wheel turns from the beginning there is neither surplus nor lack the whole universe is moistened with nectar the truth is ready

[47:30]

to harvest Kyogo says when we establish true and false as two and try to get rid of the false and take hold of the true we are thus separated from the realm of truth we have attained birth in human form and met the correct dharma we should clearly understand the principle of true and false without knowing true and false we love the false because we love the false we don't dislike it or

[48:31]

we may understand the false and dislike it this is to know about disliking without clarifying the false just to love the false is not to know the false and even to dislike the false is also not to know the false when we love the false we don't know the truth we should know that when false speech occurs sentient beings and the great earth speak falsely at the same time when no false speech occurs sentient beings and the great earth are all no false speech this being so

[49:33]

on the face of transmigration in birth and death there is a speck of dust that is not false speech in the light of buddha's eye as buddha's wisdom there is not one thing that is not truth thus truth and false are not two things you should not seek the true outside the false indeed if you seek in such a way you cannot attain it that is to say there is nothing but no false speech not two not three the reason

[50:35]

for this is buddhas and pioneers in the ten directions speak entirely the same sound with one mouth when we understand that buddhas of the three worlds expound the dharma in the midst of fierce flames we do not say that they turn the dharma wheel only by verbal karma since the buddhas expound the dharma also by body and eyes as soon as we understand this we also understand that they expound the dharma by fierce flames therefore

[51:40]

Dogen says the dharma wheel has all inclusively turned as there is no two or three outside of no false it says no excess no deficiency as it is the sweet dew of one vehicle we say one complete moistening not relying on buddhas skillful speech is called attaining the truth and attaining actuality do not forget about

[52:54]

this principle and get stuck in the true and false of the common world the true and false of the common world cannot be held even if they are correct for example saying the world is fire is false speech for those who are born in the realm of water if you say that the world is water that is true for those who are born in the realm of water if you say to fish that the water is palace it is true for them but false for gods because gods see the water as lapis lazuli if you say to hungry ghosts the water is water it is false because for them water is fire in this way what is true for human beings is false for fish this is the same

[53:57]

for gods and hungry ghosts in this way if we describe a palace lapis lazuli fire or water by means of a view that is based on karma it is false for the buddhas for this reason we should not take the view of different beings as a basis but should follow the buddhas view thus false and true speech should not be based on our own view to see mountains is to understand mountains to see rivers is to understand rivers this is correct speech in the common world to see a tree is to understand grass this is false speech in the common world

[54:58]

on the other hand even if you describe not seeing as seeing even if you describe hearing as not hearing these are all things of the common world therefore they are false however false speech is common in the world excuse me however false speech in the common world results in suffering and evil destinies the fruit of no false speech is that the things perceived by humans and devas although looking like bliss are not bliss from the point of view

[56:04]

of the three evil destinies the human realm is bliss but from the point of view of buddhas realm the human realm is filled with all the pains of birth, old age, sickness and death we should truly attain the correct view and arrive at the buddha fruit obtaining birth among humans and devas we should understand the gain and loss of false speech and no false speech if we do not hear or see the body and mind false speech it is a mistake of our lifetime it is a great loss those who clarify this immediately reach the rank of all buddhas

[57:04]

the rank equal to the greatly enlightened one several years ago Rinzai Zen teacher came to Green Gulch who I became pretty good friends with his name was Taitsu Konoroshi

[58:05]

and he lectured on the Mumonkan and one of the cases he lectured on I don't know it just stuck with me and I felt like today I would read it even though I can hardly see it it's the 24th case of the Mumonkan and it's called Feng Shui's Equality and Differentiation a monk asked the priest Feng Shui speech and silence are concerned with equality and differentiation how can I transcend equality and differentiation Feng Shui said I always think

[59:07]

of Chiang Nan in late March the partridge chirped among the many fragrant flowers so that's what I have to offer if there's anything else you would like to do other than go back and sit I'm open to it but we could also stop if you'd like yes how can we ever know the truth what is truth we can't escape that but even the Buddhist

[60:09]

you think the Buddhist truth must be true for Buddhists what you're saying well if a Buddha is a woman like you then a Buddha would still have your point of view, right maybe but Buddha's point of view is not your point of view so what's Buddha's point of view like if Buddha's point of view is not if Buddha is a person and we're instructed not to see our own point of view how does it say it anyway anyway our karma your karma is currently to be a woman of a certain age and so on and any view we have

[61:11]

that's based on karma is false for Buddhas Buddha's view is not based on their karma although Buddhas still would have a view based on karma just like we do so what's a Buddhas view a Buddhas view is a view that's not based on karma right but if you try to get away from the view based on karma that would be another view based on karma right does that make sense to you got a view based on karma now let's have a view not based on karma that's totally based on karma because you make that in relationship to the one it's just more karma just move over here and make one that's not based on karma it's another karmic view Buddhas can do that too they can have views based on karma and then they can have anti-karma views too which are just fancy confusing on top of confusing so with all that going on how do we transcend

[62:12]

and have a Buddha view one thing is to listen to the teaching that says how about for this reason we should take the view different we should not take the view of different beings as a basis but should follow the Buddhas view what's a Buddhas view the monk says how can I transcend equality and differentiation, silence and speech the views of humans the views of animals the views of gods how can I transcend all these different views the teacher says I always think of late March at Tassajara the songbirds are still here the stream is noisy there's wildflowers all over the place is that Buddhas view

[63:25]

is that not Buddhas view what do you think I wonder I wonder if there is any such thing as a false view of truth or something that's what it says at the beginning here you should not try to get rid of false speech when we establish true and false as two and try to get rid of the false and take hold of the true we are thus separated from the realm of truth so there's always some view to try to get rid of the view is no good even if it's a false view if it's a true view to try to hold on to it won't work either there's no absolute truth but there is a truth and that's not an absolute truth

[64:29]

like what I just said and what is speech in accord with that are you and I speaking the truth are you and I practicing no false speech right now are we sitting in the middle of fierce flames right now expounding the Dharma and on the fierce flames we're sitting in the middle of also expounding the Dharma and where do you look and where do I look for a basis to answer that question do I look in my views in my karmic views do I look in escape from my karmic views where does the Buddha's answer come from I don't know

[66:00]

you know I'm trying I'm committed and I'm trying to tell the truth and I think if I tell a lie I know I'm telling a lie sometimes I tell lies and I know I'm telling a lie that's pretty simple but what's telling the truth what's what's no false speech is no false speech some other place from me knowing I'm telling a lie is no false speech some place other from me lying and not even knowing I'm lying is it some other place if I lie and I don't know I'm lying the whole world is lying

[67:08]

the whole world is false speech if I'm lying and I say that was a lie that's a lie from my point of view I know from my point of view that was a lie that's what I know is that Buddha's view it's my view why don't I admit my view why don't I admit my view how's it going for you Pam it's okay

[68:14]

yes is it alright you first said that you're having trouble understanding me today a lot of trouble well before I get into that I would say just my first response is I'm not surprised that you would have trouble understanding because if I would think after hearing what I've said today I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't understand what I said but I want you to know it's not like I exactly do understand what I say but somehow I did feel that this is what I wanted to say now trouble

[69:38]

if you'd like to tell me about the trouble you're having one trouble for example you could just not understand and that could not be a trouble as a matter of fact that could be something you could do fairly easily maybe effortlessly not understand right but part of you wants to understand maybe and is frustrated is that right and maybe that's part of the hard part right I'm not telling you that you should stop give up wanting to understand that's your business and I'm actually sorry if it's painful for you to want to understand and not be able to I'm sorry about that but I wanted to talk about something and I want to continue talking about something that how would I put it is not geared primarily so that we people in the room will understand it and be able to say I understood it

[70:41]

I want to talk about something that doesn't have that much to do with whether we say we understand it or not I really would like to and I would like to continue if you feel like you understand that's fine too but so I would recommend that if you want to understand what I'm saying and you can't and you feel frustrated by that that you just see that that's the problem the problem is you want it part of me also would like you to understand or would like you to like my lecture part of me would like that because then you will like me and you'll say oh that was a good lecture his lectures were really good during satsang you know and then I'll be famous like some other people because all the students really understood and felt good but partly I'm talking to somebody I'm talking to

[71:41]

Buddha here in you and the person in you may not understand this but I'm not doing this just so that you won't understand either but also I would say to you if it's too hard and you really want me to give a different kind of a talk I'm amenable to the suggestion and if it's too much you know maybe it would be better just for my talks to be silenced and those wouldn't be easy to understand either but at least you wouldn't have to listen to me make all this noise yes? do you want to say something? the noise is the isn't that noise the Dharmak's button I hope so

[72:43]

right I said isn't that just a noise the Dharmak's button itself can you say it one more time wah [...] thank you wah wah wah I don't I kind of want to ask you to help me and to actually to actually not deny how you feel as a human being when you hear this kind of teaching and I'm sorry if it's painful for you what happens to you when you hear this kind of teaching but I also

[73:44]

really believe that somebody is hearing it and I want you to please support that person and let her enjoy this stuff and the more you let her enjoy it the more you will be able to allow yourself to feel the frustration too that's ok you can sustain it and you can transcend it but anyway as I said yesterday I think if I do what I had planned that I would imagine that people would human beings in the room would think oh I'm not understanding this and maybe somebody else does and so on and so forth so in fact you're feeling what I thought some or all of us would feel yes my problem is that I feel every little story is so rich heavy and full I cannot

[74:45]

take to many I almost drop out you feel overwhelmed by the richness too rich too many I understand that too well tomorrow I won't give so many stories I'll just give a few maybe just one at least three you want three at least three yes it's nice when you tell a story and then you tell the same story over and over and over again because in the earlier session you gave lectures in which I didn't understand what you were saying and then you just kept saying the same thing a lot of times and by the time you said it enough times I began to think maybe I understood something more that's my usual way and so like for example I spent

[75:45]

the whole ten day session on not covering very much ground but going over and over pretty much the same thing going over the three refuges over and over and same stories over and over those first two ancestors those stories over and over and over and then the human being feels like hey this ain't so bad after all this is working this is going deeper and deeper so I'm intentionally not going so deep from the human point of view I'm going across a lot of material and going across a lot of material the human being will probably not be able to feel like they're understanding and that I would think would be somewhat difficult that's why I kind of asked your permission to take this approach which I think from the human point of view would be more difficult to have a sense of understanding and maybe I should give it up

[76:48]

but anyway that was what I thought would happen and I thought the other way of approach I think you get more of a sense of I don't know what you get more familiar you feel more intimate but this is the intimacy I guess what I'm trying to do now is make an intimacy with something else which is not the same kind that was before and maybe after a while this will seem like the other way but in another dimension or something we'll see anything else this morning? so I guess I'm just recommending that we just take this this babbling into your Zazen and see what happens I

[78:44]

am not aware that I am that I am not aware that am not aware I am not

[79:21]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ