Just tell us something about what we came to or what we talked about. Honestly, I've seen them actually dance through the dance floor. It's kind of lighter and lighter, but there's still a use for karma. It's like those boys from the Anomaly of the Scripps. Once you're on the path, you know, along with creating karma, you're out here bringing it up. That's just the amount of things you can use to create karma. This is by which is at the ,, which is a city. We still, we still experience the result of that, but we've had, like, because of that, there's some, the fire, the sea, it's difficult to get out of the water.

[01:11]

And that's a way to do the hard work. Like, who's not, who's not making, who's making it? There's no other way. There's no other way. There's no other way. No. When you're on the path, the question outperforms the function. It's a path. It's a signal. Also, once you're on the path, it's not turning back. What is that? It's a state. Following the precepts leads me up the path. Please stand.

[02:23]

Right, right, right. That is the sexual misconduct. It's one speech. Don't lie inside. Think about it. And it also prepared them very well. You look like a fine guy. Oh, this is a kid's episode. That can be as fine as necessary, if you want to. Or as much as you want. Talk about that.

[03:27]

Okay, great. He's sick, so I might have to leave any second. But I asked him to do it, to give his review anyway. But anybody, anyone like to comment on the couple points he brought up? One, the last one being the idea of or you could want to say again the idea that they're rotten is it fine that it just fills in his faces with any moves that are necessary you know it's very large and that when you have films where it's yourself Don't mind if I put me in here. It's like, you know, we don't pick people.

[05:10]

We don't count our practices. We're just mounting up the relationship. The practice on the path. We don't understand. We don't receive. The second part makes sense to me, but saying that the fine net of the Theravada is like jhana practices, that doesn't quite understand that because in the jhana practices you don't need any rules. You don't need any precepts because you're not moving, not doing anything, so you don't need any... Your conduct is... You don't really have any conduct to speak of. But I guess you do, but... You don't need any rules because your eyes are shut. You're not moving. It's an advanced jhana. You're not even thinking. So the second part about the Mahayana, I didn't understand.

[06:12]

I said, I don't quite know what you mean by the jhana. The jhana. No, I think they're a protective net for the giants, too. They would mean that it would be almost impossible to find yourself in an unwholesome state if you follow those rules. If you're in one of the highest levels in the world, you're a giant state. You're a giant state. Right, but you'd always fall back. If you kept living, you'd always fall back to Kamavacara. And at that point, you'd once again have to protect yourself in such a way that you'd stay in a wholesome state, whereby you could then again begin to practice the jhanas. So yes, they do.

[07:14]

Every time you descend the ladder of the jhanas, you'd have to start from a wholesome state again. And you'd have to go to the first jhana, second jhana, third jhana, fourth jhana. And as soon as the power of that compulsion and obsession of the jhanas fulfilled itself, you'd fall back to the kamas of chara. I mean, not hopefully, but if you fall back to the kusala kamavacara, could even fall back to akusala, but even if you fall back to akusala, if you then again immediately begin to practice the precepts, you won't be there for long. Is there a set of rules for like the… Not in Buddhism. Mm-hmm. Because the path is practiced... the path is not practiced in these mundane... these mundane trance states.

[08:40]

The path is practiced in the super-mundane sphere where all these ordinary kamamacharya events can occur too. And even if you enter the jhanas there, then the same rules apply. Now, sexual misconduct is false if you had rules that prevented you from being involved at all in any kind of sexual misconduct from the point of view of considering being in a room with a woman as sexual misconduct. If that's considered sexual misconduct, then in the group of HR2, you'd have to stay out of... You'd have to avoid any relationship with... you're a man with some feminine principle. I don't know exactly what I mean there. It's laid out.

[09:41]

It's described in Abhidharma Kosha and other books. It's described what kind of feminine and masculine spirits there are in Rupa Vichara. And sexual interaction occurs in those levels, but also in Abhidhamma Korshya it tells you, you know, what parts of the sexual body are still present and what parts aren't. It talks about whether or not, what sense it makes for the male and female reproductive organs to be present or not present. But people aren't the same. I mean, it's now not, it's not sensuous interaction anymore. It's interaction of rubas. but still sexual contact, sexual intercourse in some way still occurs. So the rules that you had no longer would apply. In that case, then, you'd find a lot more elusive rules. But one of the rules in the Big List is still... There are certain rules which would still apply, but they'd be the same rules, just that some wouldn't apply anymore.

[10:49]

For example, there wouldn't be any curry in the Rupa Ganshara. Curry. Curry sauce. And there wouldn't be any... What else can't they have? Various particular things like that there wouldn't be. Actually, I think it's the smell and taste. Yeah, smell and taste aren't in the lip of the jar. So things would be different, but there would still be some rules, but there aren't a new set of rules for Buddhists. Yogis may have special rules that they use to conduct themselves in those spaces, but I don't know if they would or not. Their rules would probably be some way to prolong the state rather than how to behave themselves.

[11:50]

But I don't know. Govinda found his touch as well, smell, taste and touch. What? Govinda, I think, says that the sense of touch is also missing. He's absolutely... He does? Maybe in Theravada, they're missing too. I don't know. I don't want to quote you anyway. Smell and taste. there's still touch. So you still have some sense of touch of this. But the thing is you see that these rules are meant for the people on the path or on preparation to the path. People on the path don't propel themselves in these states in the first place. People on the path don't put themselves in these in these worldly jhanas. Is that right?

[13:02]

Well, if you want to learn about that, you don't have to ask yourself. They say that the sound of breathing practice leads to the white jhana. They said the breathing practice leads to the five jhanas. Well, the Siddhimagga says it leads to access. So I don't know. It says it leads to the full trance in five jhanas. But it describes what then becomes a breathing practice. They describe the detail, like the breathing practice that means that mindfulness of breathing is coming out and starting to work. I'm breathing as it is.

[14:06]

I'm breathing as it is. I'm breathing as it is. You could use breathing, you could catch your breath and then still concentrate on something else. It's another kind of practice too. That's what you mean? This is the basis. The intention you mean? Yeah. Yes, I think it would have something to do with it. If you were trying to enter the jhana, I induced the jhana. But actually, even so, it still says, in the Vasudhimagga, it still says it gives access, not the whole trance. Where in the Abhidhammatasimhagga does it say it?

[15:09]

You might find it and tell us when you find it. But the people on the path can even do the kasinas, and still, even though they do the kasinas, it's as though they're visitors. They do the same technique, but the purpose is no longer to induce the state. So if breathing does do that, that doesn't matter so much, because even if they do the direct kasina practice, even if they enter the trance, even if they enter the fourth jhana, it's still not the same, because they're not doing it in order to attain that state. The only reason why someone in the path would do that, and it most likely would be an arhat that would do it, I would think, would be as some kind of teaching device. But they'd spend very little of their time in such states, probably, except, I think, maybe as some

[16:14]

Like we talked about the Buddha dying in the fourth rupa jhana. Not the fourth arupa jhana, but the fourth rupa jhana in the four jhana system. You see some teaching in that. And also it would be an easy state to pass away in too. There's no pain. Or there's pain in the pleasure, but they don't have any sway. Yeah, I would think that if they entered those states there would just be some skill and means. They wouldn't actually be entering with the end in mind of spending time in that state.

[17:20]

I mean, after all, if they did do it for that reason, that would just create more karma. Why would they do that? To create more karma with the idea that it's just a show is not really to create more karma. You weren't really, if you were doing it just for a show, that wouldn't necessarily create any more karma. So if they entered those states, it would seem that would be in that spirit. Did you find it? Yeah. Right. Eight, nine. The 10 Reflections, page 390, 925, 2003, that later on is explained as the 1,500, 1,500. Well, it may be that the late, that the 10th century Theravadins thought that, or...

[19:11]

it's possible that they thought that it produced the full jhana. I don't see still... I guess even if you could find some place where it said that it did... Did you find a place where it said it produced the full absorption, that it actually said that for breathing? It does seem like that, but I... Well, it says in paragraph four that the preliminary stage of mental health is sustainable with all these 40 subjects of realization. That's all we need. It will be followed. Access. Here it says, but the conceptualized image is obtained in the casinas, the impurities, parts of the body, and breathing.

[20:40]

Right. Oh, great station. Where is this? Where are you reading this? Okay. Okay. your concentration on breathing process leads to one point in this of the mind.

[21:48]

What would lead to the insight which leads to arhatship? Well, there seems to be a couple of things mixed together here then. One is the mindfulness of breathing, which is an insight practice, and the other is the mindfulness of breathing, which is a jhana practice. Insight does not...you don't do the jhanas for the insight practice. But here, anyway, it looks like it's saying that it includes breathing under the heading of the concentrative stage, which is the full trance. But the Buddha Vasuddhimagga says it's access. So I don't know what to say. Other than this later book, 10th century book, seems to say that the breathing is possible to attain it.

[22:49]

But the Visuddhimagga says it's not. But still, an arhat can enter any of these states if they wish. But they don't do it from the point of view, they don't do it with a wish to attain or induce the heavens. I think they do it just ... Well, as you look, you see that the arhat column, they can enter these states and they become ... What kind of karma are they then? . So they can enter these states, but they're not really any longer pulsing karma states, even though they're entering them. But it says that they can enter kamavacara, rupa-vacara or rupa-vacara stages, but when they enter, they aren't really any longer wholesome karma.

[23:55]

So whether or not this me-breathing practice obtains the full transfer or not, It seems to be different at the Visuddhimagga stage and this stage, but I don't think that changes this fact, because regardless of what technique they would use, whether it be breathing or kasina, whatever technique they use, when they enter the jhanas, they enter in a different way. OK, so this is another point that Jerry brought up with. He left. OK, I agree with that.

[25:00]

I didn't want to make a mistake with the whole class. He said, is this going to be a weekly affair? Are you going to ask other people to do this? I said, well, not if they keep getting sick. He said... And said... Huh? No. He said, okay, I'll do it. So I'm glad he didn't stay the whole class. The one thing he said was, if you remember how he said it, I don't think anymore there's unwholesome states. He wasn't sure about that point. And that was one of the main things we talked about last week. And so this week, rather than go over that again, I'd like to start studying now the unwholesome states and then, as we study them, talk about the path in that context of studying this.

[26:12]

So we start on page 102, or no, we start on page... 99, 98 of the Dhammasangani. People often say when they're studying this material that they can really identify with this section.

[27:17]

And actually, as you know, there's how many kinds of unwholesome states to find? Twelve. Twelve, and then there's how many wholesome in the same sphere? Eighteen. So in the ordinary world we live in, actually, especially if you consider interrelationships, unwholesome states, there's more varieties of unwholesome states. But another way to look at it is, which is not necessarily different, is that the teaching here is that they want to articulate the unwholesome states more than they want in this sphere, they want to articulate and describe the unwholesome states more thoroughly. So as we saw when we were studying, we studied the various states, we noticed, well, the eight states or twelve states or whatever, that the number we came up with just sort of seemed to be, you know,

[28:32]

determined by the number of factors you had. So you just consider a certain number of things, just consider three things two ways, or two things three ways, and you get a certain number of things. And that also states they just seem to consider more things. Now, I'd like to... We already studied the classification of the twelve kinds, and that's pretty much the same here, isn't it? Have you noticed the similarity? The order seems to be the same, isn't it? So, in the unwholesome states, we had before twelve kinds, and the first kind was... associated with gladness or positive vedana of what?

[29:40]

Body or mind. And it's with, thought with, a kind of view, and unprompted. And the next kind, with samanasa. Oh, the first one didn't have a view. Second one. Oh, this is like a mistake then. Oh, the second one had a view too, but it was instigated, yeah. The third one had also samanasa, but didn't have a view, and so on. So this first one here says... When a bad thought has arisen which is accompanied by happiness and associated with views and opinions and has as an object a sight, a smell, a sound, a taste, a touch, a mental state or whatnot, and once again they leave out the fact that it's unprompted.

[30:55]

They don't write that in. Then we have the first four universals and then we have the next, we have the concentration factors. And then we have some faculties. And then we come to the wrong view. wrong intention, wrong endeavor, wrong concentration. We come to some powers, powers of energy, concentration, unconscientiousness, and disregard for blame, disregard of blame. And lust, dullness, covetousness, and wrong views again, and then unconscious, conscientiousness again, and disregard for blame again.

[31:58]

and so on uh quiet grasp balance okay so let's see which is uh so now i'd like to open up the abhidhamma to sangaha to the section on on wholesome which starts on page 94. Sorry, moha and then ahirita. Now, we had before, what was the definition of an unwholesome state?

[33:07]

How do you know when you have an unwholesome state? You can't see? You can't see? Yeah, I guess so. And what does that mean, that you can't see? No insight. And what's the word to use for no insight? No insight. Yeah, what's the word for it? Technical term. Abdominal factor. Do you think of anything that might suit the bill? What word is he looking for? Mohawk? As close as I can get to blindness.

[34:24]

So, yes, you can see. There's always moha with whatever one or the other was. There's some root in these states. At least there's that one root, moha, and all unwholesome states. Delusion or ignorance. Mohas can be used as equivalent to ignorance. Delusion, blindness, whatever. And then what else do you always have? But particularly in... We know these first ones we read, they're there.

[35:32]

Contact, feeling, perceptions. Fasa, vedana, samna, cetana, citta. And in the unwholesome states, also you have vitaka, vichara, piti, sukha, and concentration. You always have unconsciousness and disregard for blame. For those two, you always have... Oh, this is Akhita, or Akhri, and this is Anotapa.

[36:54]

Anotapa. Or in Sanskrit, Anapatrakya. Do you have to leave to come from this? Yes. Not this. What's this? In Sanskrit. What is this? Self-described. Self-described. Open up the columns.

[38:04]

Quite unfortunately, you can use both of them, but I prefer to use it over here. Whatever it is, it literally means fear of exile. Fear of exile. And that's the fearless... Fear of exile. But this tree, it's true that I have this book here which has various uses of these words in different places. And tree is sometimes, let's see, something that you did to call me. No, I don't know. Yeah? What book is that? Take a little, uh... The list of the Sarvastavadana, the Sarvastavadana Thirty-Five Diamonds.

[39:21]

That also correlates in with, uh... It's not this book. This is a book with a whole bunch of ZR stuff. So, I think it's better to put the poem over there. This is called, uh, any other words, Paul? Prudence and moral shame. Which prudence? Here, here. Prudence? Yeah. It seems to be the... [...] I think that the root of previously is to protect the self.

[40:45]

It looks like the same root, doesn't it? Could. But maybe it's the same root. They say the root is Why don't you look it up and then see if you can find it in there. And I would almost like to see what the root is for it. Anyway, it doesn't mean in English. I looked it up and looked. You need to protect yourself. And just in self-respect. It's a spirit of what? It's a spirit of shame. It's a spirit of predatory... So one's internal and one's external, right?

[41:54]

That one's internal. These two are These are the wholesome versions. These are the wholesome roots. And this is only the not-biz and not-biz. The not-biz is you don't have self-respect. You don't have self-respect for yourself. So you can do anything with nothing that's beneath you. And you don't protect your self-image. You have no self-image to protect. So you do very improving things. And you're not afraid of shame.

[42:56]

You know you're not going to experience any shame. You're not afraid of it. When shame is... I guess when you study shame, the word shame in anthropology, when you study shame cultures and guilt cultures, shame is pictured as external and guilt as internal. Shame is something you feel about others. that it doesn't come from conscience and guilt does. It doesn't come from something that you were brought up with as wrong, but as shame is not from something you did wrong, but from something, not wrong in the sense of an absolute immoral, but in the sense of wrong. It isn't right in a social context.

[44:05]

And also, like this culture was, I learned that this culture, our culture was a guilt culture, a Japanese culture. Chinese culture. With shame, poor shame. Confucianism is built on shame, not on guilt. a strict ethical system built on shame. What Georgette said is very important. This word shame is pivotal in Buddhism. But I think she's bringing up what seems to be a conflict between shame and internal. I think you could also say, internalized, self-respect must be learned. you can maybe born with some self respect in actual situations internalized maybe is better what you said I can still say internal in other words you now instead of feeling like instead of carrying guilt with you as she said some idea of absolute sin something that's fundamentally wrong

[45:25]

you have a sense of, you've developed a sense of shame. One definition of shame is that which is shameful. In other words, that which is inappropriate, that which doesn't work, that which is out of place. So your fear in this case, or your lack of fear, is you're afraid of the burden you give to yourself. to the inappropriateness of your actions. But you know it's not fundamentally wrong. It isn't wrong from way back. It is something you inherited. Shame is very... For me, it's very interesting to study these two things because it's difficult for me to get a hold of this theory. It's not a word I use behind my... I keep slipping back and forth in my understanding of it. It's like I don't understand what guilt is because it comes with us.

[46:28]

I can't figure out what it is. It's back there someplace. When I was in 31, I was about eight years old. So when I was about 14, I had this feeling all the time that something was wrong. I needed to figure out what it was. Now I know what's wrong. I converted that elusive nagging in the back of my head. It always seemed like it was something that needed to be done or something was wrong. I converted it into shame. And now I all know exactly what's wrong. It's like I'm more ashamed now. I'm not used to it. I'm hardly guilty at all. I really changed. I know there's nothing in the back of my head that I can't. Well, that's sort of what I'm coming to put in. I haven't heard that before.

[47:29]

You know, I'm experiencing stuff. It's good to, it has that quality. The shame is something right out there. You can do something about it. It's good. Shame also wants you to relate to other people. If you can express your thoughts of shame, something you couldn't talk about, but if you feel a little bit, that's a good thing. Guilt is closely associated with the oblivion scene. There's nothing you can do about it. It's a shame. I mean, you can keep the body working, by the way. I think Dr. Karubi said that the activity is nothing. Like heresy? Like heresy. Yeah. It has some quality of contradicting bodhicitta, contradicting buddha-nature.

[48:36]

or possibility of enlightenment or something like that. And shame is rather healthy, as you can see. Fear of shame. Shame, which is quite similar to fear of shame, I would say. If you're experiencing shame, you must also be experiencing fear of shame or being close-knit about anything. So this is a very important word to think about for us and to watch ourselves. I think I've seen this transition myself, which has happened primarily since I've been at Zen Center, that I've been able to articulate this kind of thing, that I pretty much know what to work on. It's an enormous pile of stuff to take care of. It's endless, endless things to take care of, and you have a clear sense of your shortcomings. There's no need to say if a murky business is all the way up to leave in a rushing way. But it helped it.

[49:37]

So it converts the shortcomings into workability. And this, though, blame, fear of blame, that's the difference. That's just, you're afraid you're going to get caught up with a shot. But I also wrote a positive side to those people that you're afraid to blame are your teachers. Yeah, right. But it is that. The person, well, someone, there's this one, you know, thinking, not just so many, it says, person who has this, who has this, did what? The person who has this is what... The person who has this is their own best teacher. The person who has this is a good student. So if you're sensitive either to the feedback from other people in the sangha or from your teacher, you have this. And if you're self-motivated and you can have... really keep track of your own shortcomings and keep pushing ahead to take care of them.

[50:44]

You're your own best teacher. I feel like I'm really one of those guys who's really been taught and cultivated in pain. The idea that it's better to just be going away or something. There's something in you. The way I think about it, it's kind of precisely so, like, independent. I mean, when you're on your feet, it's thankful. You also have the idea that a lot of times you see everybody else alone. So I almost, when I see somebody and it says, well, where are you? I sort of look down and it's like, all right, let's see. Well, it's probably possible for a person to emphasize this side. Maybe you emphasize this side. But the Abhidhamma says, actually, this is present, too.

[51:48]

But one, if the negative of this is present, the other one is positive. So he may not emphasize the decorative side in nature. But according to Abhidhamma, it's also present. It is, actually. But I can see how you maybe don't think the emphasize it. So I think you can see some people think, well, some people say, I'm saying they emphasize this side, but they're very self-critical. And they don't seem to manifest the decorous qualities. But then they also usually are pretty . But they just sort of don't, they don't put the second layer of deed over there. These other people are pretty good on this side. But they don't, they depend a lot on other people for their side. But usually also, they carry something for themselves too.

[52:51]

But it doesn't seem to be, I think if you think of people that maybe, Since Jim confessed, you can see how maybe he's sort of on this side, sort of taking care of himself, sort of taking care of himself, and yet he's not sort of going on, not emphasizing anything. This word decorous, okay? The word decorums or decorous. Decorum is very interesting word. I like it a lot. This helps me understand it, too, the study of the rules. It means, it has to do with, to a certain extent, I think, the quorum, to follow certain rules. In one sense, it means to follow certain rules and morality.

[53:54]

But the quorum also carries over into social thinking, where it's you that You'd be concerned about serving properly or, you know, not eating at the table right. Not right, but certainly you're in decorum. You'd conduct yourself in some way and situations. I did my role. Jake Roach has talked about Japanese and having shame and playing roles too. Yeah. Decorate roles. Yeah. There's a very good book out now called, what's it called? It's by Danny Fingert.

[54:56]

It's the one about Confucianism? No. It's called Ritual? Confucianism. It's about Confucianism in total. Yeah, but the title has Confucianism. It has a character for Rian, which means ritual. It talks about shame and ritual. Ritual is another way to get this done. So this, I think that though you can say this is internal, but still it is taught. But the direct feedback for shame is yourself. Other people don't shame yourself. If they shame you, actually, they teach you, right? In a sense, shaming is teaching. And that's part of the connotation logic of it. You don't actually hurt the person. You shame them. You make sure they know the quality of your action and what appropriate time it is to do it.

[55:59]

Did you get a check to see if Yvonne's going to come? She said she'd go. Maybe you could check and see if you want me to show it on too. I thought you said, what a shame. I'm just thinking, probably not trying to shame you down there. Yeah, if they don't have their culture mashed up, they won't work. We can shame the Zen Center if we just have agreed to accept our shaming. So we shame each other. And so it's part of how we train each other. We get together. Well, you know, it's the typical Zen practice. Even there's a thing of the comic book, the Zen comic book, the young monk comes in, the old monk sits one over and they sham, they sham, tell him Zach was always false and so on.

[57:01]

But there's no real, I mean, it's called acts of good kindness. Because there's no feeling at all that there really is no person to be wrong with them. It's just like, you're a terrible person. How could you fall short of what you can be? I mean, how could you be less than a Google? So there's shame in all the things you did wrong that day. But it wouldn't work at all if giving someone more protection just wouldn't work. Because you don't agree with their shaming system. If they expect of us, we're not alone with shame that we're not alone with those things. Also, if you say, I can't do it. Exactly. If you can't do it, shame on you. It's convenient. Yeah, that's totally true. That T. Samuel and I like Confucianism, I think, on both sides, too. One side is you can't feel shame until a certain point. and they can't, you have to learn some of this too.

[58:06]

How can shame be communicable without the decorum? Yeah, you have trouble acquiring the forms. Because the decorum is basically the form of the culture. Yeah, so you have to pick up a little form in order to experience shame. There's still some, some identical people, but with shared space. Like, either a physical design or a negative one. A shared space in which they bought those things. No. If that doesn't happen, I'll have to do something. Yeah, the more we study them, they blend in each other. And actually, in some cases, as you may know, the evolution is where it's almost one.

[59:12]

But there's some real advantage in separating them. If they were one, I wouldn't learn much from them. So guilt is not operating here. There's no guilt. It's just all... This is all just... These two words represent... It's interesting. They're both... These... In the... In the Sravastava tradition, the... What's it there? Anapotrabya in Sanskrit. These two. These are the only two. They're always present in one person's state. Oh, excuse me. These are the only two that are always present in a hosting state. I can't remember if it's this one. And this one, or this one, what could it be?

[60:20]

I think the two really bad ones. Yeah, the two ones, the Kusala Mahabhumi. Yeah, right. So it is these two. Kusala Mahabhumi. Akushala Mahabhumi. Akushala Mahabhumi. It means, maha means great, and bhumi means stage or place. So it's the, it's the, or probably like you put ka in the, person or member of the class. So it's, it's the, The akushala, the bad things, the great extension, the great place, then all the bad states you find these two.

[61:23]

So things are like you can't practice Buddhism. If you have this, you can't listen to any teachers, or you can't meditate because you don't have this upper set. It just makes the others, it makes them lose their... They're like you can work with them if you don't have these. These two, well, put it the other way. Put it the other way that you have this and this. You have this and this. Then, even if you have other unwholesome dynamics, at least you're afraid of the shame button, and you're afraid of the blame.

[62:28]

So these protect you. These are really most protective, especially in a situation where where there's unforeseen events. And these are more protective in some ways than others. They mean you'll never just sit back and let them happen . You'll always be somewhat upset about the presence of some defilement. So these can exist, used to exist in all awesome states. C. They exist in our wholesome states, and these two exist in our unwholesome states. But I can't remember exactly. But I think we can say that these exist only in wholesome states, and these exist only in unwholesome states. Anyway, that's just about the violent thing.

[63:35]

Here it doesn't say it. It says that they always exist, but then we say always are unwholesome. So these two, to me, these are the most educational among the unwholesomes. And they then reflect back to our question about what Jerry did bring up in that way. Even if there are unwholesome dharmas in the path, He says, we see them for what they are, or we see the whole situation for what it is anyway. Now whether or not on the path there are these, now we looked in the Dhamma Sanghani, it says that those are present, doesn't it?

[64:42]

So one question that comes up, it describes a state of consciousness where the fear of and fear of shame or self-respect and decorum are both present. This is a state that looks very much like a wholesome state of consciousness in the Kama Vichara. But we're told it's slightly different. It has this faculty of believing, and it has the additional path faculty. So right speech, right livelihood, right action. Otherwise, it's quite similar. So that's the state. And it also has these things, these protective qualities. then in what sense, where are the unwholesome dharmas? Where are they?

[65:50]

So, it says, it says, the first path, the first path to the moment, the first path, First path at the first moment. And it said, and this has to protect you. Hold some diamonds in it. Keep you on the path. It says that in this path, you drop, there's two ways of talking about it. One way of talking about it, you drop certain asravas, right? What are the asravas you drop?

[66:54]

One view. One view, mostly view. And as you may have read, there are places view that you need to drop. Then what? Then you motion them. It's easy to see, but it's difficult to manifest. Emotion, for me, I always think of emotion being body-giver. In psychology, emotions come from the body, expressed with the body. Emotion. The first path takes care of these views, these certain views that were reviewed, pre-floods, pre-floods stopped to review.

[67:57]

And also it's expressed in terms of certain states of consciousness being dropped, certain unwholesome states of consciousness being dropped. So what does it mean for a state of consciousness or a moment to drop state of consciousness? Well, this makes certain defiled states impossible. It makes certain unwholesome states impossible. And it drops certain views. But still, some unawares states are still present, still possible, and still some flaunters are still possible. Where are they? If this path consciousness doesn't have to be encountered again, why are they considered to be still there? I think the one, that's where they have to be.

[69:04]

Maybe they have to be in Bhavana. All these are places around here. Places in this coastal area.

[69:26]

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