we've been talking about practices for developing intimacy with birth and death. So, one practice is the practice of presence, the first bodhisattva pure precept. The next is practicing all wholesome dharmas, which can be summarized by six basic practices. And the other practice for becoming intimate with birth and death is working for the welfare of others or working to mature others. Working to mature others also helps us become intimate with birth and death. And going through the six basic bodhisattva training methods, we have come to the place of what's called the enthusiasm practice, or the practice of effort, developing energy for the practice.

[01:09]

And this practice of developing energy, the root of that practice is, remember what the root of the practice of energy is? Aspiration, yeah. Aspiration is the root of the energy for practice. Aspiration itself is not exactly energy. It's what you aspire to. And when you think about what you aspire to, energy starts to arise in you. Enthusiasm for... You might think of something that you'd like to do, but you... The word enthusiasm, by the way, means full of God. I guess the the-asm, the the-asm part is the God part. En-thoo-zee-asm. En-thooze. En-thooze-the-asm. So that practice in particular is enthusiasm for the next practice, which is concentration.

[02:16]

And concentration is to be concentrated in the sense of being focused, not being distracted. And that's similar to the practice of being present. But it has some new qualities. The practice of concentration has new qualities over being focused. It has the quality of relaxation and flexibility and openness and clarity and alertness. And the historical Buddha, when the historical Buddha was getting quite close to dying, the Buddha was practicing concentration practices, which he had been practicing all along, but he continued to practice them as he became, in order to be intimate with the later stages, the final stages of dying.

[03:24]

So, as we're dying, part of being intimate with the dying process is to be calm with the dying process. Which could be quite difficult to be calm, for example, if you had pneumonia and you're feeling, you know, hard to breathe, or calm if you had asthma attack. You have to be well trained to to continue to be calm and relaxed when your breath is being cut down. But wouldn't that be nice if you could be calm as the breathing was kind of like forcibly constricted? Now, I think when many people die, they do have a final breath. So a lot of people actually exhale calmly and that's it.

[04:39]

But some other people may be feeling some constriction in their breathing process as they approach that final breath and a lot of people get scared and agitated and so that when they're scared and agitated around the, for example, constricted breathing or other uncomfortable situations, they become agitated and not so calm. So, the intimacy with the process is somewhat undermined. So, again, the second to the last practice of being intimate with Dying is tranquility or concentration, a tranquil concentration, a concentrated serenity, a concentrated flexibility. I think a lot of people think of concentration as, you know, I mean concentrating hard, you know.

[05:47]

This is a soft concentration we're talking about, a flexible concentration, an open concentration. This kind of concentration, you're not distracted, but you're also flexible and open. So if you're focusing on something like your body and your sensations or whatever, you're open to many possible ways that your sensations could really be. So this sets the stage for wisdom, for now inquiring, well, what is this breath? What is this breathing? What is this pain? What is this illness? What is this dying? What is this, you know, things are getting dark? What is this, my feet are getting cold? What is this, I don't hear so well now? Questioning.

[06:58]

Questioning right on through the process. Wondering and questioning. Not getting so upset that you don't even, you know, you're scared. You're not saying, well, what is it? You're calmly able to continue to question what's going on. So you're calm and dignified and present and intimate with the process. And again, if you're calm and questioning, this is also not so much into grasping and seeking. So again, although you're in the dying process, you're also getting ready to realize no death. Not because you're denying the dying process, but because you're wondering about it. You're in it. You're in the dying process now. You're not behind the plow. You're in the dying process.

[08:01]

You're not denying it. But you're also not having a narrow attitude towards it. This is the dying process, and what I think it is, is what it is. In other words, a kind of self-righteous attitude towards what the dying process is. No. If you're concentrated, you're not narrow about what dying is. You're paying attention to it, moment by moment, But you're wondering, you're open, and so you can wonder and question it. Again, wondering and questioning it, as you become more and more intimate with the dying process, you more and more realize that the dying process is not the dying process. You also realize that the living process is not the living process, and the birth process is not the birth process. And in this way we become free of birth, living and dying and death.

[09:08]

We become liberated together with being intimate. Being intimate and liberated go together. And when you're intimate with something, you realize that the thing is not that thing. Okay? You look like you don't understand me. Or you don't understand what I'm saying? You understand me, but not what I'm saying. Pardon? What is what? Oh, if dying, if the dying process is not dying, what is it? the dying process is not dying that's what it is it's not dying that's what the dying process is the not dying process is not the not dying process things are not what they appear to be in other words things are not what you think they are things are insubstantial they're not what you think they are

[10:33]

Nor are they otherwise. Exactly. Nor are they otherwise. Because, in fact, you're dealing with what you think. You're dealing with what you think is death and dying. You're dealing with what you think is birth. You're dealing with what you think is suffering. That's what you're dealing with. But how are you dealing with it? That's the question. And what we've been talking about is dealing with it compassionately. And then we're talking about based on compassionately dealing with what you think's going on, you get to a place where you actually can now look to see what is actually going on because now you're compassionate and calm and you can look and see, oh, what I think is going on It's just what I think is going on. That's all. But that's not what it is, nor is it otherwise.

[11:38]

So then you're intimate and released. Released from what? Released from your own thinking, which is where birth and death lives. Birth and death is not floating out in mid-air. Its birth and death is flowing through the Buddhas. And the Buddhas understand intimately what birth and death is. And they are liberated from it. And they're inviting sentient beings into this liberation. How? By becoming intimate with it like they are. They are in nirvana without attaching to nirvana and not being separate from samsara. And they understand that there is no samsara. There is no birth and death. Yes? Yes? Okay.

[13:12]

So can you live with that? Do I want to add anything to that? I don't know if I want to add anything to that. What's my experience of what? my experience is that whatever you're talking about if I'm intimate with it life is peace death is peace and if I'm not intimate with it it's suffering suffering So if you want to show me some extraordinary situation, which you might want to call death, or... If you want to show me something you think is different from life, like a dead person, and I'm saying if you're not intimate with that dead person, I would say that you're suffering.

[14:32]

And if you are intimate with them, you're fine. And if you're trying to get something from that dead person, you're not intimate with them. If you're trying to figure out what a dead person is, okay? Puzzled is okay. But again, are you intimate with being puzzled? Huh? Well, then you're fine. Then you've got no problem. What are you asking me about if you're intimate with it? Huh? What? Oh, okay. Well, that's what I have to say. If you're intimate with being puzzled, you're in nirvana. No nirvana? It's a big word. It's about the same size as puzzled. For me, it's just too much of a joke to say you have to be intimate.

[15:49]

I didn't say you had to be intimate. That's like a program, right? What's a program? To be intimate? Yeah, it's a program called the Buddha Way. Right, it's a program. So there's very difficult things happening in this particular area. Yes. Difficult things happen, yes. So because they're difficult things, they're an exception to the practice? You don't practice with difficult things because they're difficult? If you're overwhelmed by them, does that mean you're not intimate with them? I know, but are you intimate with being overwhelmed? Well, then there's no problem. Then you're hampered. Then you've joined the Buddha program.

[16:55]

Advance. Sometimes you think nirvana is too advanced. Yeah, right. A lot of people think nirvana is too advanced. In other words, a lot of people think samsara is too advanced to actually be intimate with. Because it's too painful. It's too dramatic. It's overwhelming. So if you're not able to be intimate with something, I guess at that moment it's too advanced for you to be intimate with. If something's painful and you can't be patient with it, If it's too painful for you to be patient with, then you can't be intimate with it. Right. That's right. So you could say it's too advanced, but I'm saying if you were able to be patient with it, if you were able to be intimate with it, then it wouldn't be a problem. That's the point. Anything that you can be intimate with, you can be free of. And the Bodhisattva wants to learn to be intimate with all living beings.

[18:10]

with every situation, rather than just with some, because then the people who are in a really bad situation, they can't be with them. Because the pain of being with them is too advanced. Right. Sometimes it's too advanced, I understand. I'm just saying, but if you were able to be intimate with it, then there would not be a problem. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying this is what will make things work out for you. But I'm not saying that I can be intimate with every kind of pain. I'm just saying that intimacy with any pain that you name is, there's no problem anymore. Then there's peace and freedom and ease and joy and non-attachment to the peace, freedom, ease and joy. That's what I'm saying. But I'm not saying it's easy to open to extreme pain. Like, for example, being strangled.

[19:12]

I'm not saying it's easy to stay calm with that. I'm just saying... I'm talking about learning how to be calm with being suffocated. That's what I'm talking about. And nowadays we have people are given... when they have, sometimes when they have pneumonia they're being given sedatives so that when they start being when the breath starts being cut off they don't get scared because they're being put to sleep. Rather than being allowed to feel the fear and relax with it or feel the pain of strangulation and be patient with it, they just get sedated, not like, what do you call it, killed, but just they take the pain that makes them afraid, take that part away. What?

[20:13]

What? Do I think that's bad? If I think it's bad, then what do I do with thinking it's bad? Huh? What? I relax with thinking it's bad. There's nothing on the list here called thinking it's bad. That's not one of the practices. I'm not teaching you to think things are bad. That wasn't one of the six practices I talked about, was it? That's not being present. That's not maturing beings, thinking things are bad. Also, thinking things are good is not one of the practices. I told you the practices. And if you're thinking something's bad, you do the practice with that. And if you want to find out what I think, you can ask me, but it's not really important what I think. What important is, what do I do with my thinking? I'm teaching you what to do with your thinking, and you can do the same with my thinking if you hear about it.

[21:14]

Don't get concerned about what I think is good and bad or whether I like you or not. Learn to practice these practices with me liking you and disliking you. But don't even get into that. You've got your own likes and dislikes to take care of. You don't have to add mine to the list. Do you understand now? It sounded like that, and that's what you're interested in, whether I was disapproving or not? Yeah, well, I think that's kind of a distraction to get into whether I'm disapproving, but you can try to find that out. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to, like, encourage you to try to find out whether I approve or disapprove. That's a waste of your time and mine. I'm not trying to find out if I approve. I'm trying to find out how to deal with my approval and disapproval. You're wasting your time to find out about whether I am or not. What you should try to find out about is, am I doing the practice that I'm talking about?

[22:22]

Because I didn't come here to teach you about approval and disapproval. I really didn't. And that's not on the agenda, not one of the things I was talking about to learn. It doesn't help you to become intimate to approve and disapprove things. It doesn't promote intimacy. However, It doesn't really stop intimacy either if you practice intimacy with approval and disapproval. I'm trying to teach you how not to be distracted by your mind and to think if you can figure out what's going on with it that that's going to work out. No, you're not figuring it out. Be intimate with it. You're never going to figure it out because it's not out there to figure out. It's insubstantial. You're never going to find anything. And if you keep trying to find things, you might find something, but then you're in trouble if you find anything. Because you think you found something. You think something's substantial.

[23:22]

You got something. And then you're going to get high on self-righteousness, which is a temporary, you know, it's a high. Isn't understanding a what? Yeah, that's the way you use the word understanding, is figuring things out. That's one kind of understanding. But that's not intimacy. When you understand that way, figuring things out, you think there's something out there that you figured out. That's the kind of understanding that you're not interested in. If you realize that you didn't figure it out, If you're figuring out, you're still separate from it. If you're here figuring something out, you're not realizing it.

[24:23]

Realizing it, there's nobody figuring anything out anymore. Yeah, well, figuring means thinking about something. No. You understand it by being intimate with your figuring. Or put aside thinking and just be intimate with the thing. If the thing's not thinking, then be intimate with something that's not thinking, like a feeling. like a pain, like a color. Yes. Maybe Norma, because she hasn't... So, in fact, what you're attempting to share with us in part is what I'm hearing is the act of

[25:41]

Staying calm within the moment of experiencing pain, of loss, of dying, and just being in the moment with that feeling. Not figuring that out, just... Being in the moment, I would be intimate in the situation with someone, to say for instance, being a paradise. You know what I mean? That you're in the room with a group of people and you're really just that way. So there's a lot of feelings that come up with different people for different, there's a lot of feelings that come up with loss. But it's the idea of being, not struggling with the loss, but just being in the moment of that feeling. If you're looking at somebody else and you're feeling some pain looking at somebody else who is approaching, seems to be approaching death or who you think has just died, then you have your own feelings to work with. And if you're intimate with your own feelings, you will be realizing peace with your own feelings.

[26:48]

Or even if you're struggling, if your feeling is a struggling feeling, you can be intimate with that too. And I'll deny that, but if you're intimate with your struggling with this person who has just died, you are also teaching that person how to be intimate with their process. That's one of the advantages of having people around you when you're dying who are practicing, is that they're working on being intimate with their relationship with you, So they're teaching you how to do these practices of being intimate with what you're going through. Because sometimes when you're in a lot of pain, you may have trouble being close to what you're going through. And other people who are trying to do the same practice can support you and remind you as you go through all these intense changes, they can support you to do your work. And sometimes people who are dying support the people around them. So these great masters, while they're dying, they're teaching their students how to deal with their dying by the way they're dealing with their dying.

[27:56]

It's like Suzuki Roshi did a good job of teaching us how to be with our feelings of his passing while he was passing. There was also, not only was there pain, but there was this kind of joy in it, and a quiet joy of, this is what I want for them, their journey, being with them, to go, you know, to help them act as they were with us when they were born. You know, so they were like this, at the same time they were with us once. At the same time that there's, you could say a loss, but when you really get intimate, it's not a loss, it's just a change. There's no gain or loss in this place. And there is a joy in being with people free of gain and loss. There is a joy of being with people in no gain, no loss.

[28:57]

But you have to be intimate with the change in order to realize that place. And you have to give up you know, this whole practice from the point of view of gaining something from it in order to get to intimacy, in order to realize intimacy. But realizing intimacy with people that are born, with people that are dying, and everybody in between, this is the Buddha way. But a lot of pains are very difficult to be intimate with. they require a lot of training in order to be able to be intimate with them, in order to be patient with them, in order to not wiggle away, in order to not wish it would go away, in order to try not be someplace else. It takes a lot of training. And then to be calm with it takes a lot of training. And most of us are in that training. We have been in that training this weekend. You have been... Practicing patience this weekend.

[30:00]

You know, it hasn't been that hot, but you've been practicing patience with a little bit of... Some of you have probably been a little bit uncomfortable with the heat occasionally. A little bit uncomfortable sitting occasionally. And in Zen practice, we have quite a bit of discomfort. We don't try to make discomfort, but somehow we're given it. And then we have a chance to see, can we be intimate with the discomfort that comes with it? It's the practice where we don't primarily try to get away from the discomfort. That's not our first intention with discomfort. Our first intention with discomfort is to be intimate with it. In the moment. Which means be generous with it, be careful of it, be patient with it, be present with it, be calm with it, be relaxed with it, and then the final stage of being intimate with pain is to wonder what it is. Not to try to figure it out, but to question it, to wonder, to investigate.

[31:06]

What is pain? What is death? What is birth? But not to ask to get, but ask to understand and enter. you'll never know the nature of it that's what you think that's what you think and I think differently I think you can know the nature of birth and death the nature of birth and death is there's two natures one is whatever you want to say birth and death are the other is that birth and death are you can never find either one of them they have the nature that they cannot be found Did you say right? Did you say that? Yeah, right. You can know that. You can know that they can't be found. But not finding something is not that you can't know them. You can know that they can't be found. You can know that.

[32:10]

And you can know that about everybody you know. You can know that everybody you know cannot be found. That beings are not graspable. You can know that. We can know that, but it takes training to know it. Now I'm saying that, easy to say, but to understand that, you have to be intimate with something. Because you might think, well, if I got a little bit more intimate, maybe I wouldn't know. But when you're really intimate and really calm and really open and questioning, you can prove, you can verify that nothing can be found, that things are not graspable. We can know that, and that's liberating. But it doesn't mean liberating and then bye-bye world. It means liberating and then it makes it easier for us to embrace, continue to embrace it and continue to teach others how to be intimate with the world of birth and death and understand it and liberate other beings from it by teaching them how to embrace it also. Isn't that nice?

[33:15]

How she went from you can't know what you can't That's all you have to know. All you have to know is ultimate reality and birth and death. That'll take care of it. And birth and death is a superficial kind of birth and death, which is kind of like the way babies look, you know, and the way people look when they're so-called dying. That's enough. Just work with those and then everything in between. and then just find out that nothing can be grasped and then the whole process is liberated and then continuing to do the practices of compassion which took you to that place but now from the place of understanding you do the same practices you did before and before means before you understood that they couldn't be found then continue to do the things you can't find after you realize that but actually it's easier to do them after you realize it than before And if you aren't interested in continuing to practice compassion after you find out that the things you're compassionate with and the compassion practices can't be found, you don't have the right understanding of can't be found.

[34:23]

Can't be found, the correct understanding should make you more interested in the beings that you can't find. Is compassion a practice? As you were saying, it occurred to me that compassion may be a practice grounded in non-grasping. No, well, everything is grounded in non-grasping, you could say. Cruelty is equally grasped in non-grasping. But once you understand non-grasping, your compassion will be unhindered. Compassion takes you to understand non-grasping. Some people are really compassionate. A lot of you people are really compassionate. I can see that, or at least I can dream that. I see a lot of compassion in this room. Many people are really compassionate, and they grasp. They're compassionate towards beings that they think they can find.

[35:25]

It's still compassion, but they don't yet have wisdom. And if you are compassionate towards beings that you think substantially exist separate from you, then your compassion, still compassion, is just somewhat undermined by your lack of understanding of the nature of phenomena. But compassion will take you to understand this, and then that will make your compassion more effective. Compassion will take you to realize non-grasping, and then your compassion won't be hindered by grasping. Because some people are compassionate, but then they sometimes can't be compassionate anymore because of their grasping. They get what's called burnout. Because they're grasping the beings that they're practicing compassion towards. Exactly, exactly. Grasping leads to expectations. And then you try to help people and they're not helped and you say, well, I'm finished with you.

[36:29]

I'm not going to try anymore because you weren't helped. I can't stand the pain of trying to help you and failing at it. But without grasping, we don't expect. We just keep practicing giving and so on. We keep doing the practices without grasping and expecting. Okay. That's right. They do want to have a particular outcome, but they're not attached to it. They want... the particular outcome of everybody being really happy and free and at peace. They really want that particular outcome for each particular person and they're not attached to that. So they can keep working for it forever. They don't get discouraged that people are resisting the program. They want everybody to have Buddha's wisdom but they don't quit even though quite a few people are resisting the program.

[37:39]

They're just happy that some people, if anybody ever listens a little bit, they're very happy about that. Not to mention if they listen quite a bit and receive quite a bit and actually become wise, then it's even more happy. But they're even happy to be trying to help people who resist the help. Yes. So I have a question that I have to ask in words because I don't really know another way. Words are fine. Well, it's... It's like there's this sort of touch of something I might call understanding or knowing or something kind of happening, and I want to kind of check with you and see what it sounds like when I try to say it in words.

[38:58]

Okay. Okay? I'm listening. Okay, so... A little while ago you were talking about the process of dying isn't the process of dying and the process of being born isn't the process of being born. I said the process of dying is the process of dying? You said it was the process of dying but you also said it wasn't the process of dying. I said ultimately it's the process of dying is not the process of dying. So And then you were talking about being intimate with... The process of dying? With the process of dying. For example. For example. Yeah. So it seems like nothing is... the words that we call it are what I think it is, if I'm intimate with it, if intimate means that I am so one with it that it's not at all separate, so there isn't anything out there to be anything because there isn't any separate for me.

[40:19]

It's like that picture you draw sometimes, you know, the circle and the little bump. So... So, it's all empty. Hmm? It's all empty. Everything's empty? Yeah. That's what the sutra says. Yeah. All things are empty. All things are insubstantial. Yes? Yes. That's what the sutra says. Yeah, it does. So what are you saying? I think I'm saying that it seems like being intimate with something is a way to realize what the sutra says. It seems like being intimate with something is what? It's a way to realize what the sutra says, that it's not separate. This microphone's not working too well. Take it away from your face.

[41:19]

Being intimate... Being intimate... is a way to realize what the sutra says, that form is emptiness. That's right. Being intimate with things is a way to realize what the sutra says. That's right. So this one sutra says that the bodhisattva of infinite compassion was practicing deeply the perfection of wisdom. The perfection of wisdom is the practice of the perfection of wisdom is to be intimate with things. And if you're intimate with things, you realize that all of our experience is empty of substantial existence. And that relieves all suffering and distress. At that point, you realize nirvana and you understand that it's not separate from samsara.

[42:35]

Yes. based on that practice of intimacy and realizing the true nature, the ultimate nature of things one realizes nirvana and also nirvana is another thing that's empty so you don't attach to nirvana. And then you continue the practice of being intimate which continually realizes nirvana in the middle of samsara and you don't attach to nirvana and you don't attach to samsara. But when samsara shows up you embrace it and then become intimate with it and realize nirvana nirvana isn't samsara it's just they're not separate they're not the same but they're identical one's suffering and one's peace but they're inseparable and if you're intimate with one you realize the other if you're intimate with samsara you realize peace if you're intimate with peace

[43:36]

you open to samsara again. Until everybody's at peace. Well, I'm saying that if you are intimate with emptiness, you will not attach to it. But some people actually do have some realization of emptiness, but it's not mature and they actually think that emptiness is actually substantial. They realize the insubstantiality things and they attach to that realization, but then that's not a mature realization. Yeah. It's not the correct understanding of emptiness, right? Emptiness is also... Realizing that things cannot be grasped, that realization also cannot be grasped.

[44:38]

But if you do grasp it, that shows you that you have an immature understanding of it. which does happen sometimes and it's quite dangerous people who are attached to forms and feelings and emotions they have troubles but most other people understand what their problem is because they have similar troubles but most people are not attached to selflessness because they haven't realized it yet at all so it's hard to help them it's a special sickness that only people who have made quite a bit of progress get But in some sense it's a sickness which only spiritual practitioners get. But it's more dangerous because there's not as many doctors for spiritual illness as for ordinary psychological illness. So these people can sometimes get really lost because they need quite a good teacher who knows about these spiritual diseases.

[45:44]

And a lot of people can spot when somebody's got this disease, but they don't know how to talk them out of it. Because, you know, they say, they point out that the person's sick, but the person just says, well, your comments are insubstantial. So somebody has to say something to which will make them realize that this is not a laughing matter. Or it is a laughing matter. I realize that the redefinition of intimacy in today's life is so close to being a cat and having the possessor and all the cravings that come with it. Well, you can say without trying or you can just say without take away the trying and just say without holding on.

[46:51]

It's caring for something without holding on to it. And usually, when we start caring for something, we're already holding on to it. Or if we don't notice we're holding on to it, as we start to care for it, we start to realize we are holding on to it. But if you keep caring more and more and get more and more intimate, you finally get to the place where you can't get a hold of it anymore. When I started off this practice, I had this tremendous difficulty, so I gave it up within two or three weeks because I would just start crying with the person, and especially the family members or the person dying. I had a very difficult time dealing with that because I would feel very close to the family members and I would feel that pain, but I could not just let the pain be.

[47:58]

well maybe you can go back and give it another try now try hospice work again see how you do now after a few years of meditation maybe you can be devoted to the hospice situation and be even more intimate than you were before and more loving than you were before so that you don't get attached to the situation. And if you can't, then it's maybe good to take a break again and come back again, because you're not necessarily doing yourself or them any good if you're getting attached and manipulative. They need people around them that can teach non-attachment. Because they have the same situation that you had. It'd be nice if somebody would help them be more thorough in their compassion. And maybe you can do that now. It's almost, it's definitely a colon, yeah.

[49:16]

It's definitely something to wonder about. oxymoron is, I don't know, going a bit far, don't you think Carl? Your work, I'm sure you're encountering people going through these difficult moments. How do you, if I may ask, can you relate any stories of how you can be detached and compassionate at the same time?

[50:22]

Well, I told you, were you here this afternoon when I talked about being with my teacher? So that's an example where when he was suffering on the airplane, I could not be there. My attachment made it so I could barely be in the seat next to him. I couldn't be present. I couldn't be intimate. My compassion was really pretty weak. Later, I was able to be there with him better. But I don't think I would say that I necessarily got to the point of absolutely perfect intimacy with him. But that's an example where I made some maturity in my ability to be with him through those months there. where he gave me repeated chances to be with him in his suffering. And I was accepting these opportunities and worked on being with him and caring for him.

[51:28]

And I wasn't trying to not be attached to him, but I was more able to be there with him more and more. And yeah, so it was a very good training in the direction I would like to go. And I do see quite a few people do bring me quite a bit of suffering and give me quite a bit of opportunities to see if I can open to their wide varieties of suffering. And sometimes maybe I feel a little closing, a little grasping, a little tensing. And then I don't beat myself up for those shortcomings. I try to be gracious when I notice tensions and graspings. The limits of my patience being pushed. So I'm continuing to work on this.

[52:30]

On these practices I'm talking to you about. This is what I understand so far that I'm sharing with you. Anything else you'd like to bring up this evening about practicing in the midst of birth and death? Yes. Mickey? Yes. You're trying to apply what I'm talking about. To... Regrets I have over my brother's death and the fact that it's in the past is... But your regrets are in the present. Right. Yeah, so you can work with your regrets in the present.

[53:32]

You regret something. So you can use that regret as a stimulus for being devoted to the way you want to be. as I wrote before, you know, in developing ethical practice, the third practice is regret over things that you didn't do the way you would like to do, what you aspire to do. That regret, when you acknowledge it, stimulates you to go back and try to practice what you aspire to. And in that way, your relationship with your brother can also be a support for you for you to work on things you really want to work on and also that way your relationship with your brother becomes more wholesome and more beneficial because in relationship to it you're inspired to practice more wholeheartedly the way you want to.

[54:34]

So in that way your relationship with your brother is in the present because it's part of the inspiration for you to practice what you really think is best. So your actions are past. And you, the person that was there in the past, is past. But the person who is here now, you say, still feels some regret. I shouldn't say still feels regret. Newly feels regret. And right now you feel it. And that is part of a living practice of ethics. And that regret or sorrow, when it stimulates you to work for what you aspire to, that's a healthy process towards realizing your aspirations in relationship to your brother. Most of my regret has to do with not having enough of an understanding at the time he was... Yeah.

[55:41]

Yeah. I regret that I didn't have better understanding and based on not a very well developed understanding I acted in accord with that not very well developed understanding. I regret that. So regretting that can stimulate me to wish to develop a better understanding. I regret that I don't understand people right now. I might right now regret that I don't have a better understanding of people right now. That stimulates me, perhaps, hopefully, to inquire further about who these people are, to ask more questions, to wonder more, to be more open to that people might be something far beyond what I think they are and so on. So regret, this regret is still working and your care for your brother is still working to help you and support you to develop deeper and deeper understanding of everybody well, he's not around anymore to actually ask questions about, but it's possible that retroactively you could understand him better.

[56:48]

Like sometimes that happens that people say something to you and later you say, oh, that's what they meant. Sometimes that happens. Now I understand why they said that. Like, for example, that thing about... You know, your parents tell you that they love you, you know, and you say, yeah, I know, I know. You know, it makes sense to you. And then you become a parent, and then you go, oh, now I know what they meant. This is what they meant, what I feel now. I didn't feel, I didn't understand what they meant before I was a parent. And like, yeah, the Buddha may say to you, I love you, and you say, well, yeah, great, I'm so happy to hear that. And then you become a Buddha, and then you say you love someone, and you say, oh, now I see what Buddha meant. To love somebody, to care for somebody, without thinking you own them. to care for somebody, to love somebody, without having expectations, without being attached to them.

[57:59]

Oh, this is a different kind of a love. I see that new kind of love. I get it now. This is what the Buddha felt for me when the Buddha said, I love you. I mean, it made sense to me, but now I see this new meaning of it, now that my understanding has changed. When I was a kid, there was this TV show that I watched. It was called My Friend Irma. My Friend Irma. And it was about these two women who were secretaries. And one of them was named Irma. And I was like eight or something. And Irma seemed to be really silly to me. You know, she just seemed like a very silly person, always making mistakes and stuff like that in the office and saying funny stuff. And then she had her roommate, I think who was also a secretary, was, you know, a very reasonable, intelligent woman. But all the men liked Irma. And I said to my mom, why do all the guys like Irma so much?

[59:03]

And she said, you'll understand when you grow up. laughter And I did. She was kind of a silly girl. But after certain things happened to me, I could understand why the guys liked her. She's very attractive to adult males and not attractive to eight-year-old boys. So you have a different understanding. Things change. You have a different view. A whole different world. Anything else tonight? Any other comments or questions? I just want to announce that if anybody's interested in downloading recordings, I have a different procedure and there's a little inspection sheet available outside.

[60:07]

I just had this thought that it would be interesting for, for these workshops to go on for a really long time and watch the technological evolution. If anyone would like, you know, an implant... It's like pressing your wrist. okay well we could conclude tonight with a little chant which some of you know and others of you can listen to and enjoy I hope and maybe hum along.

[61:17]

Okay? May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way.

[61:35]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_87.66