I brought this expression, it's a special transmission outside the scripture, on Sunday. I wondered, is that, any questions about that? Do you understand what that is? Yes. It's a special transmission outside the scripture. What is a special transmission outside the scripture? What is it? It's the Buddha Dharma, it's the teaching of the Buddha. And when the Buddha was first teaching, there was no scriptures. The first scripture is a transcript of what he was saying to the people, and that became

[01:14]

the scripture. So, of course, at that time it was a special transmission outside the scripture, because there wasn't any scriptures. However, he was talking at that time, and sometimes it also is a special transmission, not depending on words. So, even while he was talking to people, the transmission was not what he was saying. And his physical presence was there too, but the transmission was not necessarily even his bodily presence. But there was a transmission between him and those five people, and one of them woke up at the end of that first talk, or at least partially woke up.

[02:16]

So there was a transmission between the two of them, and he was talking, but also he was in between his words, he was quiet. The transmission was going on, not just when he was talking, but also it was going on while he was talking, but it wasn't in the words. But, you know, when he was talking, of course, he would look at people, and they would have a look on their face, or they would say something, like, there was a talk, and they would respond by talking, maybe, and then he would see a look on their face, and it would lead him to say something else, and so on. So this transmission wasn't even in the words, but the words were going on and off during the transmission. And...

[03:23]

Yes, please. I was just going to say it felt, or it seems to me it's about embodiment. You know, it's sort of the embodiment of the Buddha Dharma. What's the embodiment of the Buddha Dharma? Transmission outside the scriptures. The transmission of the embodiment. Yes. I thought you were just saying that it wasn't about his bodily presence, either, and so if it isn't, is it dependent upon bodily presence? For people who are in bodies, for human beings, for what are called, so-called sentient beings, living beings who are not realized Buddhas yet, they're in bodily existence, and so

[04:30]

in this particular story, in the stories we have about Buddha, the Buddha takes a body and the Dharma takes the form of a Buddha, so that bodily beings can interact with a bodily being. But it's not that the Buddha is the transmission. The transmission is what happens, is that the other people wake up, too. The transmission is what happens between the Buddha and the other beings. So, the bodily being, usually it seems to require a body. We don't have stories of sentient beings waking up with no embodied Buddhas in the neighborhood. Except Maitreya. Isn't that Maitreya? Wouldn't Maitreya wake up without another body? Isn't that Maitreya? When Maitreya, in the next evolution of events, Maitreya will wake up without another Buddha there at that time.

[05:37]

But the condition of living with Buddhas in previous lives will set that up. Yeah, so the actual, that's the Buddhism. So in every era, one of the theories of Buddhism is that if a Buddha has appeared in your world, even if you haven't met the Buddha, you're not a Buddha, because somebody else has already told the story of the Dharma, or somebody else has already started the transmission going. But when you're born in a world, if you discover the Buddha Dharma, and are able to transmit it with people, and there wasn't anybody before you, then that would be one person in that era who could do that. Everybody else after that can receive this transmission and participate in it. So the next Buddha, after this situation deteriorates,

[06:40]

well, you won't see them getting a meeting with another Buddha in that world. Is this special transmission that you're talking about right now, is it the same as what we call Dharma transmission in this temple? Or are those different things, or how are they related? Well, it's basically the same. Now, you could also say that the Dharma transmission is a ritual that enacts this transmission which happened while the Buddha was alive. But then you might say, well, does that mean that every single one of those people that have done the transmission in such a way actually realized enlightenment? And so you might want to do a survey on that.

[07:43]

If you ask, you know, there's this precept in the Theravada tradition, there's a precept of one of the four big precepts that you shouldn't go against. One of them is to unjustifiably claim that you're enlightened. And in the Theravada tradition, generally speaking, almost everybody stays away from that claim. Partly because they don't want to get kicked out of the Sangha. This would be particularly for monks. Many people in the Theravada tradition don't very often claim that they're enlightened. And if they did, they wouldn't get kicked out of the monk Sangha because they're not in it. But for a monk to claim that he or she is enlightened, without justification they would be kicked out. But nobody claims anymore that they're enlightened, that I know of. There's rumors from other people that so-and-so is enlightened.

[08:51]

There's someone in the East Bay who's claiming that he's enlightened. But is he a Theravadan monk? Theravadan? Korean. Korean. But Theravadan monks are very careful about that tradition. And some Theravadan people say that it's not really possible to get enlightened anymore because the Buddha is so far away. That the transmission between Buddha and people is too weak now for people to really get enlightened anymore. So whether it can happen in Soka Zen, I guess you could talk about it, but still, no matter how much we talk about it in Zen, we're saying that what Zen is about is the transmission. Whatever it is, it's a transmission of Dharma that's outside the scriptures. And the Dharma transmission ceremony, however, does make the person a successor in the lineage of Zen,

[09:54]

and the Zen lineage is about the special transmission. And so they are a successor to the Zen lineage. The main point is the transmission. But does this person fully understand this and realize it? And, you know, again, just like in Theravada tradition, we don't necessarily say too much about that for each individual, but we do say the ceremony occurred, and they are a successor. And they're a successor in the lineage, where the realization and enlightenment through a special transmission is sort of an issue. And I think that it has been from the beginning of the tradition. There is the story of the Buddha meeting with five students.

[10:58]

That's the first scripture. And one of the students woke up during the talk, and then he kept talking to them, but they didn't write down all the talks he gave, I don't think. At least I don't know if they did. He gave quite a few talks in the next couple of months. But he also was hanging out with the guys. All six of them were together pretty much, as far as I know, they were just together in the same area. Probably going to bed together every morning. Probably sitting in meditation. And he was interacting with them for a couple of months, and by the end of those months, all five of his people were... They had basically the same enlightenment as the Buddha, except that they weren't Buddhas, because they were disciples of Buddha. And so he was interacting with them, and he didn't stress at that time that what I'm transmitting to you is not what I'm saying to you right now,

[11:59]

including what I just said. He didn't say that, that I know of. But if you look, you will see him interacting with people, and people waking up. It is in the process of him interacting with them, verbally mostly, is what you can tell. But you could also say that his interaction with them, of course, had all these silences in it. He was probably quiet with them most of the day. His name was actually Muni, you know, Shakyamuni, Quiet One. So we don't know, but he might have spent most of the day just being quiet with these people, you know, and passing them some food, and maybe saying, let's go to town now, to beg, and walking together, and coming back. This is probably most of what was going on during the day. And the transmission was not just happening when the words were coming, or between the words.

[13:01]

And then again, in that story I told about the monk coming to Master Ma and saying, well, he said, aside from the four propositions and the 100 negations, what is the living meaning of the Buddha Dharma? In other words, he could have said, what is the Dharma outside the scriptures? What is the Dharma outside these teachings? And he wanted to know, he wanted to realize it. And Matsu said, I'm tired today. But it doesn't seem to me like Matsu was sometimes transmitting the Dharma and sometimes not. But in another sense, it does seem like Matsu was sometimes transmitting the Dharma and sometimes not, because the transmission of Dharma is not just what's beaming off of Matsu.

[14:06]

Of course, Matsu is always beaming, right? He says, I'm tired today. That's his beaming. Go talk to Brother Shitan. That's his beaming. He's beaming. He's beaming. He's sending out his compassion. That's what he's doing, right? But transmission isn't just somebody beaming. It's the meeting. And when he beamed at the monk, we don't have a comment on what the monk did other than that he followed the instruction and went to see the other teacher. We don't have the statement that he said this to the monk and then there was this special transmission. We don't have that statement. But there could have been. Maybe he still would have gone and talked to the next person and asked the next person. And the next person, too, beamed at him by saying,

[15:09]

I have a headache. And beamed at him by saying, why didn't you ask the teacher? And then he said, I have a headache. Go talk to Brother Hai, Wai Hai. And Wai Hai says, you know, when I come this far, I don't understand. That's his way of beaming with this new monk. What's the transmission? It doesn't say in the document. Then he goes back and talks to Master Ma and tells him. And Master Ma then beams again by saying, Shi Tan's head is white, Wai Hai's head is black. So, in the words of that, the transmission is not in the words of that story. And yet, that story is a story about

[16:11]

a special transmission outside the story. So Zen has lots of stories about a special transmission outside any story, in particular, outside the story which is telling you about a transmission outside stories. And so this monk, you could say, was part of the transmission. He played the role in the story among these great masters. And the fact that he wasn't named maybe means that he did not become a successor, even though he obviously was kind of on the right page and serving a Dharma function to make this great story, which, you know, millions of people have been studying for many centuries. So we have a role, everybody has a role, not just Zen students, in this special transmission.

[17:12]

So, do you have a question, Carla? I do. When the story said one monk's hair is dark and the other one's hair is white, are we the listener, or am I the listener, supposed to get something out of it? Because that means nothing in particular to me. Am I missing something? Are you supposed to get something out of it? Yes. Well, the intention of the story is that you will be, that you will be, you know, supremely and completely enlightened. That's the intention of the story. Is it in the words, or is it beyond the words? The transmission is beyond the words, but at the time of the transmission we're talking about transmission to a woman who speaks English. So, if there's English spoken, she will respond differently than if there's Chinese spoken.

[18:17]

If there's Chinese spoken and she doesn't understand, she'll feel one way. If there's English spoken and she doesn't understand, she'll feel another way. This is the woman we're concerned with. And the question, we want to have this woman experience a transmission, which is the living meaning of the Buddha Dharma. The living meaning of the Buddha Dharma is that you will realize the transmission of the Buddha Dharma. That's the intention of all these stories, is that you will realize, together with everyone, the Buddha way. That's the intention. But it sounds like you kind of like didn't feel like that happened in history. No. And I'm wondering if I'm missing something or if I just... You are. You seem to be missing something. You seem to be missing the living meaning of the Buddha Dharma, which is your complete enlightenment together with everyone. You seem to be missing that. But, you know, I don't know if you're just pretending. I have some time to work on it. I have some time to work on it. Yes, you do.

[19:18]

Is there symbolism in there that I'm missing? There may be some symbolism. There's plenty of symbolism. But, again, that's because you're a symbolic person. Partly you're a symbolic person, so you're in the symbols, and so for you, they're symbols. Because men talking to men and stuff like that. So, again, one of the stories in the Zen tradition which is used in the Zen tradition for the special transmission outside stories is the story of the Buddha talking to the group and the Buddha holds up a flower and turns it and one of the people in the group smiles. So there he has all of his monks and at least all of his monks are there. It doesn't mention all the Bodhisattvas that were there. Among all the human monks

[20:23]

that were there. Of course, in some sense you could say, well, Mahakasyapa was a Bodhisattva. But anyway, Mahakasyapa smiles and then Buddha says, according to this story, Buddha says, I now entrust the Shobogenzo, the ineffable mind of Nirvana to Mahakasyapa. So, he was the one at that day that was like the conditions were such that for him the special transmission would occur. So that special transmission occurred between them on that occasion and didn't occur in that same way for the other people in the group. And then later

[21:25]

they actually went and did further activities away from the group according to this Nara story that they had another meeting that night in a cave with some flaming chickens. Pardon? It's a good name for a band. Flaming chickens? And and then this is don't tell anybody this is esoteric secret of Soto Zen but in our Dharmi transmission ceremony when we still have the flaming chickens thing we still sort of act the flaming chicken thing in our secret Dharmi transmission ceremony. But it's like it's like it's a formal transmission from that time. Did you just use

[22:29]

a rubber chicken now? Well you know I'm a little bit of a reformer. You know like like in our in our funeral ceremony I use actual flame rather than a paper flame. In Japan they use a paper flame in the funeral ceremony and make a circle with a paper flame. So I use actual flame. And in some traditions they start I think the reason why they use a paper flame is because they don't want to burn the temple down. One of the main things that they do in Japan is burn temples down. In Japan they have wooden temples, right? So they're very careful about having fire. So anyway but now instead of using rubber chickens you know we have we use actual flaming chickens. All right.

[23:34]

But we also invite the Mirror Beach Fire Department to come and stand outside the room just in case. So you may have heard that engine running during our ceremony. Yes? It's that if one is touched by the beam of an insentient being is that the meaning? Is that meaning? An insentient being? Beaming to you? Two insentient beings? Two sentient beings? You said insentient. No, insentient and sentient. Is that the transmission? Is that meaning? The non-sentient beings are also transmitting the dharma. So Buddhas are transmitting dharmas. Sentient beings are transmitting dharmas. And insentient beings are transmitting dharmas. Dharmas may transmit it all to the place. And is that transmission? And we're talking about a special transmission of dharma that doesn't depend on the words. Among all those

[24:43]

transmissions that are going on we're talking about a special one. One that realizes the dharma. But that can happen. That can happen with any meaning, right? That can happen with any meaning, right? Right. However, if there's not a Buddha present then there's no verification. So it is a meeting like with other ones but with a Buddha there and another person also realizing what the Buddha is transmitting which is being transmitted by everything. And then so if that's the case then you know like I say some Theravada people say we're so far from Shakyamuni Buddha that we don't you know that the transmission of a Buddha we're not saying

[25:45]

we're not saying that rocks are Buddhas exactly but rocks do transmit the Buddha dharma. We do say that in Mahayana anyway. I think the Theravada is saying that too. I think the Buddha is saying that everything is transmitting the Buddha dharma. The Buddha is just bringing it out the human Buddha the Buddha in the form of a human is just bringing this out so that humans can have access to it. But it's not like you take the Buddha away and the Buddha dharma wasn't there before. It's just that somebody wakes up to this thing and that's a necessary part of the process. where's the Buddha? Because you know we need the Buddha according to this special transmission we've got to have a Buddha so this is kind of an issue for us. Yes? If transmission does not depend on scriptures

[26:45]

then why study scriptures? Yeah so as I said on Sunday also happy together unhappy together using the scriptures not using the scriptures and won't it be fine? So in a special transmission using the scriptures is one of the best ways to verify whether you're also okay not using the scriptures. So if you don't use the scriptures that's fine but can you use the scriptures in such in as final way as you don't use the scriptures? And people who never even saw the scriptures or touched the scriptures and haven't spent lots of time studying them some of those people some of them feel like hey I don't need these scriptures. Some of the people however who haven't met the scriptures aren't so relaxed about it. But some people who have never seen the scriptures they find like

[27:46]

I don't need the scriptures to transmit but if you study the scriptures you know if you really what do you call it commit to them and then like you commit to the scriptures like you commit to work in the kitchen like you commit to help somebody across the street okay if you really commit to the scriptures then you can test to see if the special transmissions occurred by whether you're free of the scriptures which you've committed to. Can you commit to something with no greed? Like really give yourself to something with no greed and of course no hate either but most people study the scriptures and commit to them don't hate them but sometimes they hate them maybe when they aren't behaving properly. So using the scriptures and not using the scriptures just like practicing being together when we're unhappy and being together when we're happy tests our relationship.

[28:46]

Are we just like only together when we're happy? Are we together? Period. So the transmission should be able to be done while reading a scripture or while not reading a scripture and most Zen stories are not about when the monk's reading scriptures but some are. Matter of fact the great Zen teacher Hakuin was reading the Lotus Sutra when he had his greatest enlightenment but it was a special transmission outside the Lotus Sutra which he was reading it wasn't in the words of the Lotus Sutra which of course he had read many times but now he just happened to be reading the Lotus Sutra at the time that he realized the transmission which was not in the Lotus Sutra and many people probably while reading the Lotus Sutra was when they were completely sure since the Lotus Sutra is such a great sutra right? If the Dharma

[29:50]

is going to be stuck in any sutra it will probably be in the Lotus Sutra so you're reading the Lotus Sutra and you realize oh my god the Dharma is not even in the Lotus Sutra so the Lotus Sutra helped you realize that the Dharma isn't in any sutra even the greatest sutra but you're committed to studying that sutra and you find a way to study that sutra with commitment such that you're in a space so that when Buddha holds up the flower you smile so we need to so that's why we are encouraged to practice for example meditation because we get ourselves in a position where we're start opening to the special transmission which is going to happen when we're in the right space when we're in the right conditions it will happen the beaming is happening everything around us

[30:53]

is beaming the Buddha Dharma to us and it's bouncing off of us right now and bouncing back to everybody else this resonance of the Dharma is going on in an inconceivable way and it always will operate in an inconceivable way how can we make ourselves such that it sinks in and transforms us so that we no longer believe things that aren't true and so the special transmission can be realized and tested and you know tested by being put into practice and scriptures are good foils for this process can you please open the window pardon can you please

[31:53]

open the window I hope so it's really hot up here if anybody was willing to open windows in their neighborhood Maheen would be appreciative I don't know Lane? okay so how do we know to do these practices how do you know to do what? to do these practices what practices? like reading scriptures how do you know to do them? yeah because you said to commit to them without greed or hatred but I feel like sometimes I feel like I commit to things I'm ignorant because I don't know to do them or not to do them I'm willing to say okay you know

[32:54]

I just trust this is that is that faith is that extra? well if I'm ignorant and I start studying the scriptures I guess I'm ignorant I'm an ignorant being studying scriptures so in a sense that's that's what it looks like I myself might feel like although I'm ignorant I have a feeling that I am so I'm not as ignorant as I would be as if I didn't know that I was ignorant but I yes? well is it like good karma that brings us to to know or to feel like we should study the scriptures is it good karma? it is the result of good karma yes I would suggest you consider that but again that's just a story the actual Dharma is you know not in the story that because of good karma you now have the

[33:54]

very auspicious occasion to hear teachings like you're hearing and not only hear the teachings but hear the teachings from people who are very good looking and and then you think you know well if such good looking people are studying the teachings maybe I should too and so you kind of want it you want to study the teachings you know because you see these good looking people studying the teachings and that's good karma too that you have the that you have good good looking people who inspire you to study scriptures and you start studying them and then when you start studying them you start to realize that you're actually not only ignorant but greedy because you're trying to like you don't want to stop reading because you feel like yeah I'm starting to understand something and people say now come and work in the kitchen lane

[34:54]

you say I don't want to I'm finally understanding these scriptures so you notice that there's greed in your study but then that's that's good that's also good this is also the result of past good action is that you're starting to wake up that you're a greedy person greedy people usually don't get over being greedy until they start noticing that they're greedy but as we start to notice we're greedy and confess that we're greedy and feel kind of uncomfortable about it and repent and we start to change we start to become a little less greedy maybe in a more sneaky way and then and then we start noticing oh yeah I'm still I'm still greedy but it's more now it's more sneaky and then you start then you wake up to that and then you get more and more sneaky and you get more and more subtle about your greed but all this is this is all waking up and this is because of studying the scriptures and waking up and finding a way

[35:56]

to study the scriptures less greedily in other words you know the teacher says well you say how can I study the scriptures less greedily and they say well when they ask me to go work in the kitchen close the book and go work in the kitchen but when they ask you to help them with something stop trying to do what was going to increase your knowledge and just help them not so much because helping them is better than reading the scriptures but just to test your greed and get free of it so in this in this process we start to wake up and it's all good stuff and we're not in control of it and yet it works this way so the more you understand the way it works the more you wake up but you can't control how much of this teaching and how you're going to understand but and yet when you do understand and when you do act certain ways things go this way and the more you understand that the more they go that way so then if you had the life that you would study scriptures

[36:58]

but not just study scriptures but realize your greed in studying the scriptures you would probably get over your greed in studying the scriptures and you would start studying the scriptures not to get anything out of them and then you would realize the pure practice of the Buddha and then you would be ready for you'd be in the condition to receive and enact the special transmission but you could do other things besides reading scriptures too I think Charlene was next and then you a special transmission outside of scriptures could you also say a special transmission outside of signs like signs being the macro manifestation outside of signs yes right yeah just I'll just briefly echo over to the text it says the first level of insight is depending on signs second one on reflection what does it say anyway and the third one on investigation

[37:58]

so the third one is the deepest that's the transmission we're talking about it's the third one but the third one depends on the previous ones part of setting up the special transmission outside signs is to have some transmissions in signs first so the deepest transmission is beyond signs or free of signs but you have to get to go through transmissions in signs first so the transmission usually the transmission outside of scriptures depends on transmissions in the scriptures first most of the people just like this guy he went he wanted a special transmission outside of scriptures but obviously he already knew quite a bit about scriptures he already had transmissions inside scriptures and he wanted to go deeper and he got he got the transmission outside the scripture which is I have a headache and he's getting it from this Buddha Matsu is a Buddha in a sense but Matsu is not saying he's a Buddha and his disciples

[39:01]

like one of his great disciples one of his this is his Gu Gu great grandson Wang Bo says don't you know that in all of China there's no teachers of Zen this is the great Zen teacher saying there's no teachers of Zen yes tell me your name again I'm Doug Doug so what if it's you know not true like what if what? there's this when people are asking questions and you're kind of responding with some authority saying the true Dharma is this and you know I wonder sometimes in my own practice like what if the Buddha's teaching or Christ's teaching or whatever you know you're kind of practicing but it's just been diluted so much that you know it's not really the case anymore and like people are just kind of parroting scriptures and you know saying this is in a way

[40:02]

that's kind of what we do it feels like sometimes I enjoy service but when we can't you know hand directions or whatever it's like there's some kind of feels like there's some kind of limit on it or something that someone wrote down and now we just say it and and what if it's not true you know well also I point out that this is an argument which might not be true okay what I'm about to say maybe I'm saying that I think spiritual life really lives in at the turning point of our life so we have a life and I say I say why do I say find the find the turning point of the moment and now there's another moment find the turning point which is the crisis of the moment I'm saying live in the turning of the moment that's why I point to it as the kind of

[41:02]

at the center of your life is where you turn and that's where that's where you're most alive and have the greatest opportunities but that's also where you in order to open to that center you have to also open to all the danger around you you're an impermanent being I'm an impermanent being and if I open so there's a teaching that we're surrounded by compounded phenomena and all compounded phenomena are impermanent that's a teaching it might not be right there's a danger that that teaching that things are impermanent might not be true right but that's one of the easier teachings to study to check to open just consider now I'm going to study to see if things are impermanent that's one of the easier things to check out and realize it's not just a story I think it's actually for me, true for me anyway it's true that I'm impermanent that I'm dying that I break for me

[42:03]

so then and I'm in danger of all kinds of impermanence manifestations of impermanence and Reb says if I open to that those dangers of impermanence I will also open to other possibilities there's also the danger of the teachings I'm hearing are wrong or misleading or not helpful I would open to those dangers so you're bringing this up is it bringing up this danger I think it's good if you can open to that not not bring it up and then run away from it or not bring it up and try to get rid of it and go someplace where there's no things that might be not true but just live in a world where people and traditions might be saying things that are are not helpful open to that possibility that danger I think that would be good or even the teachings used to be appropriate aren't now so another part

[43:03]

of this special transmission is to make it possible for the people alive today to make the tradition relevant to the people today which means we have to reinterpret it in a way that's never been done before which is you know what I'm trying to what I'm devoted to is a new relevance of an ancient tradition for the people living today in this world of danger new opportunities for turning the crisis point and I often also use the example of when I was a kid I went to the amusement park and they had a cone at the amusement park a cone a wooden cone and it was big enough for like 20 or 30 people to sit on it and then they would and the cone would start turning and then the people would fly off

[44:03]

the cone and I didn't particularly enjoy flying off the cone myself I thought I thought it would be nice to go sit on the cone and not fly off so I just climbed up on the cone and sat on top of it and I don't know maybe other people wanted to do that but I didn't feel like I was struggling to get the seat on top of the cone and other people said let me sit on it so I just went and sat on there and then everybody else got thrown off the cone and I just sat there spinning most of the other people are kids, you know but if you don't sit at the center and this cone starts going fast you will get thrown off the center but if you're right at the center you can actually stay upright and not be thrown off center but you have to be right there at the center and after I realized that then I transmitted that to the other kids and let them sit there Did you use words?

[45:09]

Pardon? Did you use words? Did I use words? Did you use flaming chickens? I used a flaming hot dog a charcoal hot dog So now now back to the text I want to say something about shamatha shamatha if you write it like that it just means up that's the Chinese character you put this on here and you stop or rest so shamatha I thought of an interesting

[46:10]

kind of a picture of shamatha if you had a lake a serene lake with no wind then the well the lake's smooth, right? and some people think shamatha is and in this case of this serene lake with no wind in fact it's like a very you might say placid smooth lovely lake serene lake will act that way it'll make a little it'll allow this little splash and these rings will go up and then it will be calm again it will be smooth again but it's calm through the whole process it isn't like you drop the water or the rock into the lake and the lake splashes in

[47:11]

and the lake starts churning you know shooting water all over the place that make sense? or if the wind blows on the lake the lake will accommodate it's flexible it starts going with the wind when the wind stops it just shuffles down again so it responds it isn't like the lake's smooth it's not like the lake is smooth and you blow on it and it says I'm not gonna move it goes with the wind and if the wind stops that way it'll go the other way you drop the water you drop rain into it in a serene lake when there's lots of rain falling on it it's well of course it's very lovely to see to see serenity in action that make sense? and a lot of people think that that when the lake doesn't have any rain falling in it and there's no splashing that that's what serenity means

[48:11]

but no because serenity is not like it's like it says in the in the the true eternity or true serenity still flows so serenity the word in the word in this translation it's this it has this quality of prashravdhi I think that's how you spell it prashravdhi is that right? prashravdhi which means appliancy flexibility ease softness stability calm it's a dharma? it's a dharma, yeah it's a it's one of those it's on the list of you know fifty four dharmas associated with

[49:11]

dharmas in the Theravada tradition in the Abhidharma so it's serene when but when things affect the mind it responds it changes its shape and the serenity goes on and then what came to my mind is I heard of an experiment which I haven't really seen which Gregor Dateson told me about which is if you take a glass of water but also I think you might work on a lake it is harder to do with a lake but if you take even a large container of water and then you send sound waves at it and it could be ultrasound too I suppose the water will start jiggling does that make sense? of course if you blow on it the same would happen the water would jiggle but anyway if you send ultrasound so you can't see anything but you know you maybe can't hear anything either

[50:11]

but the water starts jiggling and if you send away the ultrasound in the other direction so that it balances the the mechanical waves from the first ultrasound the water will go calm but the water is containing the resolution of those two forces so it's not the same as the water was before there was this energy input to it then if you send a sound wave from let's say north and south you did north and south then if you send one from the west the water will will churn up more than it did the first time when you just did it from the east or from the north but then if you send it from the west it will calm down again so let's say you could have it from four directions or from two but four four has more energy in it than two and there's more stress than there is in two does that make sense?

[51:13]

so it looks it looks like a a cup of water that's just sitting calmly looks like a cup of water but it's got tremendous stress in it and a lot of because of energy inputs and if you take a needle I think he said and you stick it in the water the water will just practically explode out of the cup does that make sense? because you disturb the equilibrium of those forces and there's tremendous tension in it so it goes so it looks serene but it's really tense it's not fleshy it doesn't have that flexibility and ease it's like it's like it's not blowing up but it's on the verge of blowing up so that's you know that's an example of the way a lot of people are is that they're not screaming and hollering but if you touch them they blow up and some people here told me that they feel fairly calm and zenzo and then they walk out and somebody says boop boop and they go and then I said well then you realize that you weren't that your calm wasn't really there

[52:16]

you thought it was so that's part of the reason why we do interact is to test to see can you be like can you get yourself to a place where you're serene and then people like poke you and then when they poke you it makes a dent in you and that's it like dent you you dented me again ooh that was a dent and then you sort of like come back fill it back up and go you know reinflate and you're back to work so that's part of the reason why we have work in our zen tradition is to take your serenity out and then see if you can bump around with people a little bit without flying into a big explosion and sometimes you find you can't sometimes you feel like calm in zen you go outside and people like make various comments and you go hmm yeah that was that was like

[53:16]

hmm so that had an effect and that way of being is a gift that comes because of various causes and conditions and it particularly comes to people who when they meet things when they interact with things that they they don't get involved in the story they have about the thing so when we meet someone when we meet someone and we of course you meet someone and you have let's say you meet someone and you have a story this is a really fine person it's a nice story and it seems like I mean it's not unkind to think that somebody is a good person right it's not wicked it's just that if you have that story even putting the energy

[54:20]

into finishing the sentence doesn't take care of yourself in a certain way now if you're already calm it's different but if you're not calm it might be better to meet the person and not tell a story about them or if you do tell a story try to like let it go of it real quickly like oh this is a nice person this is a good person this is an intelligent person this is a sincere person this is a helpful person in these stories but as soon as the story starts going or as soon as possible just let it go give up discursive thought in other words the content of your attention is on the person without images for reflection you look at the person with no conceptual elaboration and this is a way

[55:22]

to take care of your state of mind but also it will help you eventually maybe not at that moment but it will help you eventually be able to be very unreactive with the people you meet so it will promote your relationships with other people eventually as you become more calm but in the meantime it is so in the meantime you may not be calm but you're taking good care to set the ground the conditions for the realization of a tranquility in your relationships of an ease and flexibility and then also as the scripture says you're setting the basis for doing the insight work and if you don't have this basis then you're reactive more or less reactive and then in the insight works you're going to be more or less reactive to the insight work too you're going to get too excited or too I don't know

[56:23]

too reactive too explosive in relationship to the insight teachings and then you won't be able to handle them carefully and skillfully or as carefully and as skillfully as you would be if you were serene and ease and flexible and so on the first class I talked about serenity practice serenity training and on Sunday I didn't talk about serenity I talked actually about insight work so Doug's question about you know what if some teaching is not true you know isn't there on Sunday I was talking about to find to find the pivot the pivot point is not so much the point the pivot point is in the middle hopefully in the middle of serenity but the pivot finding the pivot point is not really serenity work it's insight work

[57:23]

whenever you're practicing serenity of course you are sitting at the pivot point but you don't realize it necessarily because you're basically giving up discursive thought once you're serene then I'm recommending to you then use your discursive thought to find the pivot point in your serenity and the pivot point is of course the place where you're I should say the pivot point is where you are but realizing the pivot point realizing the turning means that you become aware of the danger around you so becoming aware of danger opening your mind to the instruction that you're surrounded by danger that's a discursive instruction and that's content for reflection I'm actually suggesting that you conceptually elaborate on your situation by opening to the impermanence of it opening to impermanence and observing impermanence is insight work it's discursive

[58:27]

and then also remember too that not only you're opening to danger and impermanence but you're also opening to the opportunities for insight and that you have to do both if you close to impermanence you close to insight if you open to impermanence you open to insight so that's an example of the first talk was about serenity the second talk was about insight so this thing about finding this crisis point I do recommend that we find this place because that's where the practice really lives but find it look for that spot after you're serene and then not only you find it but you'll be able to sit there at the center calm and not avoid the dangers of the stories you have so I was trying to put those two together for the shaman time to be possible yes, Vinay? as I raise my hand I sort of into that sort of dangerous sort of pivotal point there

[59:29]

and I actually want to talk about raising your hand is a way to to feel the danger and I was actually going to talk about sitting in meditation this morning and I thought of drowsiness as a mental state yes that's one of the 64 75 normal yes and when I started looking at it that way it seemed that I kind of started to play with it and I noticed when I when drowsiness kind of like the first signs of drowsiness came up there was some discursive thought that came up around it and the more discursive thought came around the more drowsiness would come and then as when I started noting started seeing that I started remembering that it was a mental state I started to see a little more energy

[60:29]

rather than it was more like a meeting point right there so it was sort of like whenever I tended to it the discursive thought in other words dropped the discursive thought the drowsiness would sort of back off and then as soon as I got into a little more discursive thought the drowsiness would come back so it was kind of like this little play right there and and also when I raised my hand it was this sort of you know it was like this impairment sort of like stuff going on there too thank you anybody who I haven't called on yet? so most of the people who had their hands raised just now are people who are second or third time what's happening with the rest of you? you don't want to raise your hands? Matt? I have a question I'm out there is your name Matt?

[61:30]

yes that's good about serenity work I've been trying very hard to do serenity work for the past few days I've run into a particular problem that I wanted to ask about can I say something? huh? can I say something? sure watch out for trying hard watch out for trying hard to be relaxed maybe that's that's my problem that really points to my question you've said a few times give up discursive stuff what is the actual activity of giving up discursive stuff? I usually say relax with it and relaxing is a kind of activity but it's what's relaxation? it's like noticing tension and kind of like going is there some place to let go of that tension around the discursive thought?

[62:31]

but I'm thinking discursively about maybe at first you are maybe at first you notice a discursive thought and then you use a little bit of discursive thought to say is there tension there? or you use a little discursive thought to say there's some discursive thought and then you maybe say a little bit more discursive thought and then you get a little discursive and you move over to say this response which is relax so you can reduce it to something like just say relax every time you notice any discursive thought just say relax just like I can stand behind you and every time I saw you getting a discursive thought I could just touch you and that would be a signal between you and me every time you hear me touch you feel me touch you that's a silent relax or I could just you know pat your head and say relax relax relax and then I can just pat you and then I can stop patting you and when you felt the discursive thought

[63:34]

you'd feel that touch or melt you know or swoon you know so find something so there's a little bit of a there's a little bit of instruction there to cue you to when discursive thought arises when conceptual elaboration arises to cue you let it go let it go when stories arise at the same time you know you're hopefully able to sit up and not go to sleep when you start to relax I'm having that problem also yeah so that's and then and then you might play some little games of a little bit of discursive thought to wake yourself up or a little bit of maybe not discursive thought

[64:34]

but just think of sometimes I say just think of some brightness or just look up a little bit something to stimulate you enough to get you to be um relaxed but not sleepy because if you're sleepy in some sense you can continue your discursive thought while you're sleepy you sort of have to be awake conceptually cognizing and awake to do the thing called giving up discursive thought to get the serenity because if you just go to sleep your mind just keeps being discursive and you're dreaming so you're not changing the pattern and when you come out of your sleep although you may feel somewhat rested you're not necessarily more calm calm is that when is that you're getting in that you're you're you're actually soft and at ease and it's connected to you not holding on to your story so when people touch you physically or psychically they're touching

[65:35]

a soft flexible state but also they're touching a soft flexible state of somebody who's not caught up so much in stories so even if the person brings you a story like I hate you you have a good chance of relaxing with that story so your state is the result of attenuated involvement with stories and your attenuated involvement with stories even if you even if you're not focusing on it at the time it will come to your aid if you're familiar with that so the combination of them helps you respond skillfully to the situation yes yes and yes and yes I mean communicate it now and in the same regard if you can talk about the same story about the mom

[66:36]

with the three bricks polishing it trying to make it like a mirror like uh huh that story yeah if you can bring that into the same context and just elaborate in this in this context I think that I would say that in this story the monk and by the way the monk in this story is this master ma this great master I would say that that that monk was certainly serene okay so when the teacher comes and is going to interact with him there's going to be a crisis now okay teacher's coming and there's some danger and some opportunity here in this case the danger would be that he'll miss the opportunity because another great teacher is now coming to meet this serene practitioner but before I go any further I want to say that this is a not a story about insight it's not a story about tranquility so you know the story

[67:37]

Matsu's sitting in meditation he's certainly I would say the story the way I tell the story is he's very serene however his understanding is not correct and we don't know that actually when Dogen tells the story he says that Matsu at the time of the story had already become a Dharma successor but still even though he was a Dharma successor he still was going to say something which was going to sound not correct so whether he's a Dharma successor or not he he pretends he plays the part of somebody who has to some extent a story which is open to criticism by the teacher namely he says something about his understanding and when he says something about his understanding we have now moved into insight work so the stories of the conversations with the students

[68:38]

and teachers most of the stories are stories of insight work between tranquil people these conversations these transmissions are conversations they aren't just the teacher coming and telling the students something there's a conversation and conversations are generally either not insight or insight but they're not tranquility work does that make sense? a lot of conversations we have are not insight work are not vipassana and the reason why they're not is because we're not in a state of shamatha we're talking but we're being to a certain extent basically reactive from our instability there may be some wisdom there but it's being disturbed it's being blocked by our instability a lot of these stories are these serene people having doing insight work having conversations so this is a story

[69:38]

between the teacher and the student about the nature of this is actually a story about the nature of meditation itself because the teacher says what are you doing there in meditation? or what's your intention in sitting? or actually what are you trying to make by this sitting? who's the teacher? the teacher is Huairang Nanyue Huairang is Matsu's teacher so at this time I'm not going to get into that whole story which is a long story but just to say it's an insight story and it's not about developing tranquility that story is a story for some that story is a story which will work well for you when you're serene but if somebody comes and talks to the teacher about that story and they're not serene

[70:42]

the teacher may feel like this person is trying to get something from me basically they're coming here and they're trying to get the meaning of this teaching from me and the reason why they're doing that is because they're not calm enough yet somehow you need to want to understand the story without trying to get anything and so the teacher maybe won't work with that student until the student calms down more or even if they don't set that high a standard they may feel like the person can't hear them because they're too agitated and they're too worried about whether they're going to understand what the teacher is saying so they can't hear very well so does that make sense? Grace? You had a question earlier, do you remember? I did, yeah I totally do I guess the place where I'm curious is I'm thinking

[71:42]

about energy if you know the pool is serene and there are forces coming at it energy can neither be created nor destroyed so that energy is coming from the outside in and it's only the opposition that's holding an imbalance so here we are serene I'm trying to figure out where that energy coming from the outside goes and I guess what I would say is that somehow by not catching it in some way it does get grounded in the serene mind the truly serene mind that actually comes through the body and gets grounded so in the example if you had water and ultrasound was going towards it and at first

[72:42]

it was coming in one direction and the water was getting disturbed you'd see the disturbance of the water and the water would be serene and the grounding of that energy would be the turbulence of the water that's the grounding of it but the water is serene I get that but I'm talking about the serene mind how it is the same the mind the serene mind when the serene mind which arises together with a serene dualistic mind arises in a living being and it arises depending on previous cognitions sense organs and sense data when the previous cognitions the sense organs and sense data come together you have the arising of a sense consciousness in a living being and it's basically a serene mind until we say more however the arising

[73:44]

of that mind is a little bit of a disturbance it's a little bit of a wave on the serene mind but so far anyway we don't have any story of why there's agitation it's just a little wave on what was basically on the previous cognition so where is the agitation the agitation where we bring agitation we have to bring in mental factors we have to bring in discursive thought okay and then we have something which is starting to make things turning things up go on well I'm trying to flip it around to the question where you know here we all are calm in the vendo and then we get out to work

[74:45]

meeting we're in work situations and all of a sudden the equilibrium is destroyed somebody drops the pin in and so what I'm trying to understand is over whatever eons how it is that the pin doesn't drop in or the pin still drops in but the energy isn't going like this so I'm sitting it happens it happens when the mind arises and when the opportunity for discursive thought arises and somehow the instruction to give up discursive thought is taken into the system so when discursive thought arises and this instruction comes in and the mind is able not to get involved in the discursive thought then the mind becomes cultured and refined such that when certain stimulations come it responds

[75:45]

it continues the serenity which is its basic nature the basic nature of mind is serene the basic nature of all phenomena is nirvana everything all dharmas are fundamentally at peace and then this peaceful things seem to enact arising and falling so states of consciousness arise even though states of consciousnesses are fundamentally at peace when they arise if they're highly developed states of consciousness if they're a state of consciousnesses arising appearing to arise in a continuum of of meditative cultivation it arises and you can poke it however you want to and it's not reactive and how does it get to be that particular lineage of consciousness it gets to be that way because

[76:45]

normal human minds when they arise they arise with the ability for discursive thought they use discursive thought they're caught up in discursive thought and they're tense and agitated and they don't know how to give up discursive thought so they're in this reactive agitated state and they're not as flexible as they could be fundamentally they're very flexible and at peace but as we get involved in the wonderful drama of arising and ceasing as we enter into the illusory realm of samsara and bringing with it now our ability to be discursive in the realm of birth and death if we train this situation if it gets trained at giving up the discursive processes that are woven in and out of it all each moment the states of consciousness which arise there are more

[77:47]

and more flexible and at peace so that the inputs have an effect and that's it they don't have an effect they don't get fought against they don't get reacted to because the inputs are story converted and believed as the story that doesn't happen so much because the mind has been cultivated that way it doesn't look like that was perfectly clear to you well it's not that it's not clear that I'm still stuck on the or I'm having a story about I'm caught in physics so which is there's energy coming from so now at this point this is an example of you're caught in your story of physics okay now we could go on now and you're continuing to try to like get your story straight so you know

[78:47]

but this particular effort that you're making now is a type of effort which if you cultivate giving up this particular mode right now what you're doing right now trying to conceptually discursively understand this in a certain way to make it align with your stories of physics part of your life needs to be like not getting not doing that not following down that road not figuring this out putting aside problem solving which requires discursive thought putting aside figuring out the work assignments and if you do that enough the state of mind that arises from that kind of training is a state of mind which grounds these energetic inputs it grounds them because it actually does co-arise with them it is it's arising

[79:48]

is the grounding of them because because consciousness has arised by these conditions the previous state of consciousness which has been cultivated or not the current stimulation and the current state of the sense organ this is the grounding of that energy energy is not lost it creates a new state now if the previous state of consciousness is in a lineage of training and tranquility then a tranquil mind arises for a while it will go on if this training has been going on however it doesn't last forever because it's impermanent and there has to be reenlistment in the tranquility process to tap into that way so it doesn't mean you can never figure out the physics of the situation it's just that you will be better able to figure out the physics of the situation if you spend some time quite a bit of time giving up trying to figure out anything including physics and then

[80:49]

that kind of cultivation gives you a state of mind which can do problem solving much better in an unreactive way and it also can like do no problem solving you can just be with people with no problem solving occurring and be serene and responsive and so on and so forth but you also then can move into complex analysis in any realm from this tranquility it must be much more energy flexibility and interest than before but you have to give up figuring out anything for a little while I don't know I take away a little while you have to just give it up for the moment and that state of mind then realizes all states of mind are actually the realization or the grounding of the conditions that give rise to it you are the grounding of the conditions of the universe that are making you the universe has made you I get that ok yeah

[81:50]

let's see I think Elena and then maybe Keith and Jane and Fu and Susan and I just want to stop me too well you have follow up stuff so you get to go first right good try disappointed right it didn't work but good try go ahead Elena in the last apology that my husband during sitting uninterested in producing thoughts or words in itself was really surprising because he was not interested yeah sometimes that happens and I thought well for a moment I thought well maybe this is the time to bring so then you started to think again you had enough of that stuff

[82:51]

occasionally there was one word but then I thought maybe this is the time to bring in a teacher no no is that how love is danger surrounded no that's repulsion of work you need to do more of the tranquility work ok yeah and the tranquility work is not that is not that when you when you're sitting your thoughts are coming up that's not tranquility work pardon the tranquility work is not when is not a situation where you're sitting there and no thoughts are coming up that's not tranquility work tranquility work although there are states like that and of course states like that seem calm tranquility work starts when the thoughts arise and you don't get involved in them and you certainly shouldn't be until you're really tranquil you shouldn't be bringing in any teachings

[83:53]

voluntarily trying to cause yourself to get involved in discursive thought now if you're having trouble staying awake it's ok to jazz yourself up and agitate yourself and make yourself miserable a little bit just a little bit just give yourself a little jab of discursive thought to get yourself to wake up and then when you're awake then give up discursive thought again basically give up discursive thought don't bring in teachings yet and you're sitting in the zen sometimes when discursive thought arises it seems to help me to touch into some place maybe it won't be so clear when I say this but rather than having some intention to relax to actually find a relaxation already there somewhere yeah like my body

[84:55]

somewhere just briefly go there briefly but it's the directing of my attention that's what I question it's a little shift in what you said first of all sounded ok when discursive thought arises it helps you touch into a place of relaxation that's already there if I touch in if I then touch into a place of relaxation I find it there which which includes having a little thought that directs myself to do that yeah so you have to do a little bit of a little bit of instruction to get yourself to look for giving up discursive thought yeah once you get the feeling of giving up discursive thought you may not have to even say anything to yourself just the mind may turn towards giving up discursive thought turn towards giving but at first you may have to say turn towards a non-conceptual image or you may have to say non-conceptual image non-conceptual image little bit of a

[85:56]

little bit of a of a discursive kick over there to be non-discursive non-discursive silence non-discursive silence N-D-C I mean N-D-S N-D-S N-D-S mm-hmm mm-hmm ok well mm-hmm N-D-S and the tranquility is already there really and you're just using a little bit of a kick to get yourself into that place it might sometimes be like a feeling of warmth or something like that would that would you call that a non-discursive image a feeling of warmth arises yeah that might be where I turn my where I find relaxation oh that's ok too yeah you might say warmth or you might say you might like there was this there was this movie several years ago

[86:56]

called Bull Durham about baseball and it's about this one pitcher and the his coach who was a woman I think suggested he wear a bra and you know so he'd feel that bra while he was pitching and then she gave him some other instruction about something about some kind of feeling in his upper eyebrows his upper eye lid so some little creative comment can sometimes get you to you know for some people they might say you know pink you know it just cues them into or like Madeleine you know some word can kick you into a state of relaxation the reason I'm bringing it up is because it was very different for me to shift from giving myself the instruction to relax to shift from that into finding some place that was

[87:56]

already relaxed that seems to make a critical difference for me yeah well anyway be careful you're getting a little too discursive now yes the instruction relax doesn't really work for me so well because I find there's a drifting and there's a subtle kind of seduction of discursive thought in that non alert relax lowers my alert quotient so the word that helps me at first is just no no no and then gradually that discipline you know every time the discursive thought starts to arise no no no that raises the concentration level quite well so that gradually and it's more

[88:57]

continuous well you can try that it doesn't sound too good this raising of the concentration level doesn't sound too good but it's okay but that's you know that's the mu you know mu can be used mu means no or there isn't any and sometimes that's used as a tranquility instruction mu mu or in Chinese wu wu English translation no or there isn't any that can be used to cut discursive thought too so there's many different little signals that you can give yourself the sutra says non-conceptual image the sutra says content without images for reflection the sutra says reflection of non-thought so there's different words to sort of cue you but the basic function is give up thinking give up discursive thought give up wandering around in your head

[89:57]

give up stories but how you cue yourself into that today you can experiment with I'm just making various suggestions you can try other things yourself but be careful about how you do it watch out to see if there are really just new ways to get involved in discursive thought but that may happen that you'll just find new ways to get into discursive thought and you won't get calm and then it'll go on for a long time before you get calm because it's hard to find a it's hard to find a way to give it up really but if you keep looking what kind of attention another attention is to turn your mind another intention is to shine the light back is another instruction turn the light around and shine it back

[90:57]

and that's a lot of people have trouble with that one or look at meditate on the continuous mind meditate on the continuous mind or meditate on the mind which all minds are meditating on which all minds are meditating on so whatever you're meditating on people are meditating on different things but actually they're all meditating on the same mind think of that mind so these are different ways different ways of translating the same original text even and let's see, there was some other new people yes you mentioned that when these conditions come together there is a serene mind that arises before there's some agitation there's some discursive thinking but it's a dualistic serene mind is the mind that you pointed to at the end you said something like grounds

[91:57]

the conditions that made you is that a non-dualistic serene mind that either thinks or doesn't think the usual usual states of consciousness are called vijnana vijnana you know jnana is knowledge and v means you know to split or to cut so ordinary consciousness is a consciousness which knows objects and understands them as separate and so that's the normal kinds of consciousnesses that are arising in unenlightened beings when the conditions for the arising of a consciousness occur but these consciousnesses are not necessarily agitated however if the previous state of consciousness for the arising

[92:58]

of this particular consciousness was a consciousness which hadn't developed tranquility hadn't been training in giving up discursive thought hadn't been consistently living in non-discursive silence then when this consciousness arises its serenity will be unavailable but

[93:22]

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