The meaning is not in the words, but it responds to the inquiring impulse, it responds to the arrival of life energy. So we have these, from this Mahayana treatise, these vajrapada, these difficult to penetrate terms, or subjects, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, Essence of Buddha, Bodhi, Supreme Enlightenment, guna, qualities of the Buddha, and karma, acts of the Buddha, these are bases, terms

[01:16]

we can use as a basis to penetrate. As I was talking about yesterday, these words are like the shell of an egg, and either we're outside or inside the egg, we can peck at these words, use our life to peck these words, to study these words, to look at these words, to stare at these words, to think about these words, to chew on these words, to watch, see what happens, to bring our energy to these words and see who pecks back. Thinking of these words, these words are not thinking, we can think about these unthinking

[02:20]

words. And in this thinking of these unthinking words, Dogen Zenji says, there's a who. When you think of the unthinking, there's a who there, a who that responds to your thinking. Who is the smiling meaning or the meaningful smile that somehow pecks back at your stupid scratchings on these words? In some ways, the stupider the scratching, the broader the smile. The point is not to be smart, because you can get smarter and smarter and smarter with

[03:30]

these words. The point is to get this thing to respond, and this thing actually is beyond smart. It's not so impressed by smart. It likes cute better than smart. It likes a childlike energy, likes the sort of uneducated, direct approach to the Buddha, to the Dharma, to the Sangha. And the more energy and the more innocent sincerity you bring to these terms, to the Buddha and the Dharma and the Sangha and to the Thagatagarbha and to the Ratnagotra, Vibhanga, Mahayana, Uttara, Sangha, in Nitroso and Methylperitol, I mean, it's all from the Buddha. The more she smiles back at you, the point is bring your energy to it, to these unthinking

[04:43]

words, and the meaning responds to your effort, to your silly childlike effort, and you develop somehow a relationship that develops around these words, around these walls, around these unthinking objects. And through that responsiveness, the penetration develops according to its own uncontrollable rate, according to its own uncontrollable process. Some people, you know, knock once and they get a big answer right away. Some people knock and scratch and squeak and peep and peck and crawl, and it takes many, many, many years before they get the next big answer.

[05:44]

The time it takes is not the point. However, if it's fast, it seems nice. It's spectacular when it's fast. So I'll talk about, you know, a little later, I want to go back to our ancestors, Yashan, Yureshan, you can say Yashan or Yureshan, either way, those are two different ways to say it. Go back to him, he was a spectacular type. He knocked once and he knocked one more time and that was enough. But his disciple, his dear disciple, and our poor ancestor, Hungan Donjo, Yureshan, I mean Yuen Yuen, he knocked many, many times on many, many doors and a lot of people laughed at him. But, nonetheless, he finally became our ancestor.

[06:52]

So, yesterday I talked about the first topic, the Buddha. First, that's a difficult to penetrate topic. The Buddha is not the same as, you know, in this particular setup, the Buddha as a jewel, as a Buddha jewel, it's Buddhahood, not just Bodhi. Bodhi with the qualities and with the actions, that's the Buddhahood. So the Buddha jewel is all three of those points. So, each of those is difficult to penetrate, but the combination of the three, which is the Buddha jewel, this is a difficult to penetrate thing. A very noted and wonderful Buddhist scholar, I think his name is, I think it's Demiville,

[08:02]

a French scholar, his name is Little Village, I guess, half a village, and he just died last year. He was a really wonderful scholar and he said, the whole career of the Bodhisattva is just thinking about Buddha. So, the Dharma, the Buddha Dharma, in some way, for Bodhisattvas anyway, is just this wonderful gift from the Buddha about how to think about Buddha. And that also is difficult to understand, how to think about Buddha. So the Bodhisattvas are, you know, in some sense, they're always thinking about their boss. What does my boss want me to do today?

[09:05]

What does Buddha want me to do today? Who is my boss anyway? Where is my boss? Oh yeah, who is my boss? That's right. How is my boss? How is my boss? Yeah. My boss. What? How did she get to be my boss? How did she get to be my boss? Well, this is another nice mess you've gotten me into. Remember when Oliver used to say that to Stan? You don't know about Oliver, huh? No. You know Oliver Hardy and Stan Laurel? Laurel and Hardy? Yeah, I do. We call him Thick and Doof. Thick and Doof? Thick and Dumb. Thick and Dumb? Yeah. The fat one used to say, the skinny one, in English you'd say, Well, this is another nice mess you've gotten me into.

[10:06]

He had totally caught it himself. Well, I just didn't mean to, Ollie. So, the fourth ancestor said you should think about Buddha all the time as a kind of warm-up to the one-practice samadhi. And the way to think about Buddha is to have no objects of thought. And again, how do you do that? The fourth ancestor also said Buddha is a Sanskrit word. And Rinzai said if you meet a Buddha on the road, kill it. This is how to think about Buddha. Doesn't mean you shouldn't think about Buddha. It means you should be out on the road, or wherever you are,

[11:12]

watching all the time. Where's Buddha? What's Buddha? How's Buddha? Who's Buddha? And as soon as you see it, kill it. You're not ever supposed to meet it. Never ever, no matter how clever you are, should you meet a Buddha. This is a hinting about how to think about Buddha. How to understand and realize Buddha. Yashan said, I'm speaking these words to you to reveal that which has no words. The original face is the one that doesn't have eyes, and so on. There's a little bit more, as you might guess,

[12:21]

there's a little bit more to say about the Buddha Jewel. But rather than go deeper into that right now, I'd like to go to the Dharma Jewel. And if we have time someday, we'll go back. The Dharma Jewel, from the Buddha Jewel there arises the Dharma Jewel. I bow before the son of the Dharma, which is neither being nor non-being, nor both being and non-being, together, and neither different from being nor from non-being. There's four alternatives again. In other words, these are the four insults to the Dharma.

[13:22]

Right? Where is it in the Surangama Sutra? There are four insults. To say that the Dharma exists is insult by exaggeration. To say that the Dharma doesn't exist is insult by underestimation. To say that the Dharma both exists and does not exist is an insult by contradiction. To say that the Dharma neither exists nor does not exist is insult by pure mental fabrication. So it's not there. And yet, these are, I was talking to somebody yesterday, these are kind of like red lights. These four propositions are red lights. They aren't the Dharma, but as you're coursing along the way,

[14:27]

if you start veering off towards the Dharma of being-is, this light goes off. No, get back. If you say, no, it isn't, the light goes off. If you say both, the light goes off. These lights are kind of like your Bodhi mind. If you can take these lights into yourself, and if they go off when you start veering towards these alternatives, then these alternatives guide you. They aren't the Dharma themselves, and yet they guide you towards it, even though you don't know where it is. You start feeling your way in the dark, and occasionally you get a shock. You say, oh, I got it. Oh, I don't have it. So, you know, again, having the Dharma will be swell, but if you couldn't have that, at least if you didn't have it, that would be pretty good, too. Then you'd know something. But those are kind of, you know, red lights, when you have it or don't have it. Okay, so it's not that stuff,

[15:34]

which cannot be speculated upon. You can't meditate on the Dharma. And it's beyond explanation. You can't explain the Dharma. But it's revealed only by introspection, and it's quiescent, it's quiet. And which, with the rays of light, of the Immaculate Wisdom, destroys passions, hatred, and darkness, with respect to all bases of cognition. It destroys passion, hatred, and darkness, with respect to all the bases of cognition. So there's eight qualities of the Dharma that are pointed out here.

[16:40]

Because of its being unthinking, because of it being non-dual, and being non-discrimination, or non-discriminative. The three. Unthinking, non-dual, non-discriminative. And because of its purity, its manifestation, and its hostility. The doctrine, which is deliverance, and also by which deliverance arises. It's both deliverance and the cause of deliverance. It has the characteristics of the two truths. By this verse, in brief, the jewel of the Dharma is explained as being contracted of eight qualities. And contracted...

[17:44]

I've got a word up, because it's kind of a funny way to use it. One meaning of contracted is to shrink. So you could say you shrink it into eight qualities. Or to make an agreement. Or also to incur, or acquire. So anyway, I don't know which one of those it means, because I don't have the Sanskrit here, or Chinese, or anything, on this particular word. So anyway, it says contracted by eight qualities. It could be all of those, actually. Which are the eight qualities? They are... unthinking, non-duality, non-discriminativeness, purity, manifestation, and hostility. Hostility, in other words, to obstacles. And deliverance, and the cause of deliverance.

[18:45]

The word for deliverance in Sanskrit they're using is viraga. Vi is like in Vijnana. Vi means to cut. And raga is passion. So deliverance is to cut the passions. When we translated, we re-translated the four vows, and the first one I wanted to translate, I mean the second one I wanted to translate as delusions, inexhaustible, I vow to cut through. Or at least to cut them. Abbot's Council didn't feel ready to use that translation. So we're still saying in them. But here anyway, it's

[19:46]

hostility to these obstacles. Okay, so next is two truths. What two truths? Do you think? I think it is. You'll never guess it. Try again. I wouldn't have guessed it either. What are the two truths that it comes with? You'll never guess it. You'll never guess it. Two truths are actually two of the four, you see, they're hidden inside the four of the two. It's two of the four. You know the four, right? Death and taxes.

[20:58]

What did you say? Death and taxes. Death and taxes, hey, that's right. Sort of. What it is, is it's the four truths is suffering, it's caused, or rather, individual, clinging to individual existence, that's suffering. And the cause is that you want to. And there's an end to it. There's such a thing as freedom, even though you're a suffering, greedy bug, there's freedom. And also there's a way. So practice, that's the way, the way to be free. Two of those truths in this sutra, in this treatise, two of those truths are the Dharma. Last two, you got it.

[22:03]

500 is good. The cessation, truth of cessation, and truth of the path. These are the ones that they're saying come with us, jewel of the Dharma. How so? Deliverance is summarized by two truths, extinction and path, which are each known by three qualities according to order. This is a Mahayana Buddhist treatise. You see how it's built? If you read Tibetan books, you see they follow this model very closely. This is like Abhidharmakosha too. You see a standard Indian Buddhist thing is you have verses, a little introduction to the verse, then you have a verse, then you have a commentary. And I remember when I first started studying the Blue Cliff Record,

[23:04]

I thought, what a strange way to present Buddhism. You have these little pointers, and these little cases, and these little commentaries, and these little verses. But actually it's an ancient Indian Buddhist pattern to set up texts that way. And then also this thing of you've got the Dharma and break up into two truths, and the two truths are three parts. I don't know if you can follow this, but it's not too difficult, this particular one, because it's not going to break down one more time. So the truth of... Remember those eight qualities in the last verse? So the first truth goes with the unthinking. Non-duality, and non-discriminativeness. The truth of extinction goes with those three. And then the truth of the path goes with the purity,

[24:06]

the manifestation, and the hostility to obstacles. Of these six qualities, oh, and also then the two truths go with the two truths. One truth is the deliverance, and the other truth is the cause of the deliverance. Are you following that? Does that make sense? The truth of the Dharma is split into two truths. The Dharma has eight qualities, right? And so you split it into two truths, which is also cause and effect. That's two of the eight qualities. And then the other six qualities are three and three. So you have cause, and purity, manifestation, and hostility to obstacles. That's the truth of the path of the Dharma. And then

[25:09]

the effect, and the unthinking, non-dual, non-discriminative, those qualities of Dharma go with the truth of extinction and effect. Of these six qualities, the first three, the unthinkable, non-duality, non-discriminativeness, truth of extinction is explained. By this explanation, it should be known that deliverance is contracted. And by the remaining three, namely purity, manifestation, and hostility to obstacles, the truth of the path is explained. And from this, it should be known that the cause of deliverance is contracted. That which is deliverance means the Dharma as the truth of extinction. That which arises from deliverance means the Dharma as the truth of the path. Having joined

[26:10]

these two together, it is explained, quote, being of the nature of deliverance means having the characteristic of the two truths. And sometimes people say that the Buddha Dharma has one flavor. And here they're saying it has one flavor and two truths. What's the one flavor? Liberation. Both these truths are having to do with deliverance, with freedom from suffering, freedom from passions. Freedom from passions means freedom from suffering. So the Dharma shit has that one basic quality, and then these two truths share that quality. Suffering and the cause of suffering, we don't usually say they have flavor of

[27:10]

deliverance. There we'll want deliverance from. Okay? Can you take a little more of this? Just three more pages of this. We've done three. Because there's a lot of footnotes. Okay. Okay, just hang in there a little bit longer. This is pretty useful. Okay, so first is the Dharma as the truth of extinction. Because of its being beyond speculation, beyond meditation and explanation, because the Dharma is beyond speculation and meditation. Again, speculation means meditation. The Dharma is beyond meditation. You can't meditate on the Dharma. And explanation, you can't explain the Dharma. Like Yashan said, I'm using these words

[28:12]

to help you get at something that there's no words for. He's not explaining the Dharma. He's being himself. Which is a pretty neat guy, but anyway. He's not explaining the Dharma. And because of its being the knowledge of the saints, the unthinking or the unthinkability of the Dharma should be known. Because of its quiescence, it is non-dual and non-discriminative. These three qualities with purity and so on are akin to the sun. The sun of the Dharma. Okay. This next part, I really wanted to read. Next part is something really important. So,

[29:12]

achintyatva, unthinkability of the truth of extinction, in short, should be known by three causes. What are the three? One, it is not of the sphere of speculation, even, well, I already said this, even by the four categories of existence. Chatjus koti. These four alternatives. You can't even meditate on the Dharma by using these four alternatives that you avoid. That's the first reason why you can't think about it. You know, that is non-being, being, being and non-being together and neither being or non-being. Two, it cannot be explained by any sound, voice, speech, way of speech, explanation,

[30:15]

agreed term, designation, conversation and so forth. It cannot be explained by sound, voice, speech, way of speech, explanation. So, again, that's what I was saying earlier. When you say the stuff, the stuff is not the Dharma, it does not explain the Dharma. The words are something you go to meet and when you meet them, when you bring your life to these words, it's not the words but this is the Dharma. The Dharma happens when you bring your life and there's an answer. Then the Dharma happens there. And this isn't in any of those categories of existence and this is quiet and this is non-discriminative and this is pure and so on. Three, it is to be revealed by the introspection of the saints. Sorry about that one.

[31:20]

I don't know what to say about that one. If I knew what the character for saints was that might help but what do you think about that one? This is the three explanations for why the Dharma is characterized by unthinkability and the third reason, the first three, the first two make sense to me. That it's not even, you can't even meditate on it by using the four alternatives and you can't explain it. Those two that make sense. Both those work for me but it is revealed by the introspection of the saints is the third reason why you can't think of it. I don't quite get that. What? If it said that

[32:26]

that would make, I could understand that, but it said that saints, I don't know which... Yeah, right. Yeah, but so I'm sorry about that one. I'm not sure what it is. Well, again, that would make sense to me too but this particular way of putting it the introspection of the saints say the ancestors of Samadhi that works and I think I sort of know a little bit what we're talking about but I'm not sure whether we're talking about Bodhisattvas or Shravakas here and as I say he has lots of footnotes here but he didn't say what he meant in this case. So, I really don't get this part. So let's just say there's two reasons. The next, number two and three

[33:27]

is non-duality and non-discriminativeness. How should here... This is what it says. How should here be understood non-duality and non-discriminativeness of the truth of extinction? This is translated by a Japanese man so we get lots of interesting things happening. How should here be understood non-duality and non-discriminativeness of the truth of extinction? It is taught by the Lord as follows. O Shariputra, quiescent is the Dharma body of Buddha. Quiescent is the Buddha body, absolute Buddha body, having the nature of being non-dual and non-discriminative. So this is a sutra authority here. Here, dual means karma action

[34:28]

and klesha, defilement. Dual means action and defilement. Defilement is the cause of the action and those two is what we mean by dual. So Dharma is non-dual. It's not those two. And then discrimination, vikalpa, means irrational thought. ayonisho manashikara which is the cause of the origination of the action and the defilement. So there's discrimination and there's duality. Discrimination, which he's saying is irrational thought, causes the other two. Klesha and the action, the karma.

[35:32]

And the karma causes the world. So discrimination, defilement, action and world suffering. So Dharma is characterized by first, unthinkability, number two, non-duality or non-discriminativeness and non-duality. By knowing deeply that this irrational thought is extinct by nature, consequently, there is no origination of duality and discrimination. For this reason there is absolutely no origination of suffering. This is called the truth

[36:33]

of the extinction of suffering. It should never be explained that because of the extinction of something it is called the truth of extinction of suffering. This is what I wanted to read. Okay, you got that? By knowing deeply that irrational thought is extinct by nature. The core thing is this irrational thought which causes the discrimination, which causes the defilement and the action and the suffering. This irrational thought is extinct by nature. By knowing that irrational thought is extinct by nature, consequently, there is no origination of duality and discrimination. For this reason there is absolutely no origination of suffering.

[37:34]

This is called the truth of extinction of suffering. Period. It should never be explained that because of the extinction of something it is called the truth of extinction. Okay? Hmm? So, implication of that? It seems like there is something... The implication is that a lot of people don't understand the third truth. Because a lot of people think that nirvana means that something gets extinguished. It's saying nirvana does not mean that anything gets extinguished. Nirvana means the truth of nirvana and the truth of cessation is not the truth that something got extinguished. It's the truth that there never was any suffering in the first place. There never was any discrimination in the first place and that the basic irrational thought, the basic dualistic thought never really existed in the first place. It was by nature extinct.

[38:36]

And so the truth of extinction does not mean that something gets extinguished. The truth of extinction means that the basis of the whole problem never really even happened. That's why going back to our dear ancestor who says that the family ways of peasants is most pristine. That guy said when he went to the sixth ancestor he said, how can I avoid following the steps and stages? And the ancestor said, well, what have you been doing? And he said, I haven't even been practicing the Four Noble Truths. Well, then what steps and stages could you fall into? What stages have you fallen into? And he says, how could I fall into any steps and stages if I haven't even practiced the Four Noble Truths? We don't even practice the Four Noble Truths because there's no suffering in the first place. We don't even start the basic practice. That's

[39:40]

the truth of extinction. What's the difference between extinction and emptiness? Between extinction and emptiness? Are they really different words? Realizing that, knowing that this false discrimination never really even happened is the same as saying emptiness of it. Same. Does it mean anything? Does saying that it never really happened mean anything more than saying that it's empty and that it's hollow? Does it say anything more? Yes. Yes, it does. Can you guess what it says? Remember what happened yesterday?

[40:41]

That's where you get those two facts. You see, that it's empty and it's hollow, that's one truth. But another truth is, there is the production of this non-existent thing called false discrimination. False discriminations are constantly being produced. But they never really happened. They were extinct by nature. So there is the constant production of things which are by nature extinct. So not only are they extinct, they're hollow, because they're just nothing but the causes that produced them. They're just animated by things that aren't themselves, so they have no own being. They have no own nature. Not only that, but these empty things are constantly produced. These extinct thoughts. These irrational thoughts. That's irrational, right? The existence of that which doesn't exist.

[41:46]

That's what they are. So that's those two things. Thank you. Yeah, let's hear about that. Okay. Om Manjushri. In case there is neither origination nor extinction, mental actions as mind, intellect and consciousness never take place. Whenever no mental actions take place, there is no false imagination by which they would think irrationally. One who applies herself with rational thought never makes ignorance arise. Who decides? That's the Dharma.

[42:50]

The Dharma is telling you about that. The Dharma is telling you what rational thought is. Right? It's not explaining it, because it can't explain it. The Dharma is going beep, beep, beep. The Dharma is not even going beep, beep, beep. The Dharma is not doing anything. The Dharma is quiet. And words are revealed. Words are spoken for you to meet with your life. And by meeting with your life, you get help about figuring out what rational thought is. All these words of the Buddha Dharma, you bring your life to, you study, you think about, you try to penetrate. And then the rest of the universe meets you and helps you, and then you and the rest of the universe produce rational thought. Which is called thinking of the unthinking. It's rational thought is how is thinking. Nothing's produced, including that.

[43:52]

That's not produced. Regular, uh, whatchamajiggers are produced. But they are produced, what is being produced is regular productions, is a production of things that are extinct. How is thinking is is a combination of your effort, your human effort, your contribution, and the rest of the world meeting you. So, you become a vessel for the whole universe to think. So you're how is thinking. This is rational thought. No, it's the believing that non-existent things are existent. That's irrational thought. Or, it's irrational that that there would be existent things, I mean, that non-existent things would be produced, that seems to be irrational too. But what's really irrational

[44:56]

is to take these non-existent things as existent. That's the basic irrational thought. That's basic ignorance, is to say that it exists or it doesn't. That's the basic irrational thought. And the rational thought is to avoid those pitfalls. You can still think. It's sort of a trick of what conventional truth our society says, what is rational what is not rational the irrational thought would not be considered as existent. Or, to be more discriminated that would be rational. And irrational would be not. Right, right. That's a common that flavor is a common thing in our society. What I'm saying here now,

[45:56]

Albert said the other day, sounds like an invitation to discriminate, to discursive thinking. And so part of what Dogen is teaching us is take your discriminative thinking and sit there and do it and then let the whole universe help you do it even more thoroughly than you ever could do it. So really discriminate away. So in that sense, if you take the ordinary idea of rational thought and you let the rational thought that's happening in your life be pushed to the extreme, then it becomes what we're calling rational thought here. Rational thought within the bounds of a human being's efforts, which is always limited, that's irrational here. But rational thought that's pushed to its absolute extreme all the way, it goes beyond it. And that's what we mean by rational thought here. Because that rational thought does not believe in these productions. Okay?

[46:57]

That's Powell's thinking. Unfortunately, no. But maybe it's in the... Maybe I can find it somehow if I look for it. Yoni, by the way, means the female organ, right? So, let's say it's a similar term to the word garba. It's a word for source, but

[48:02]

it's a physical body source, the source of life in the physical body, the woman's body. I'm having trouble with that word and I can't figure out if it's that I'm not understanding something or that it's just translation. Extinct as being synonymous with empty gives me trouble because it seems to me that extinct means that something has been is now extinguished. It has that quality, but see, in some ways I don't know if it's accurate to choose that term, but it's okay to use it because he's using it in parallel to this other word, neuroda, right? Neuroda means, usually translated as extinction or ceasing, and he's saying so it's okay to use it here because he's saying that extinct does not mean that something got extinguished. It means it never arose in the first place,

[49:03]

and yet they use the word extinction because from our human point of view, it looks like suffering gets extinguished. We think suffering exists, so from our point of view, it looks like it gets extinguished. He's saying it never gets extinguished. It never came up in the first place. Okay? Okay, so finally, at the point in that argument where it never came up in the first place and empty then that empty would be the end part of that thought? Well, in terms of practice, we try to meditate in such a way that we realize emptiness in our life. Realizing emptiness of dharmas, or emptiness of thoughts, is basically the same as realizing that although you can't see that it never came up because for you, it came up and then you saw that it was empty. But one of the implications of emptiness is that the thing never really did happen.

[50:05]

Even though for a moment there, as a living organism, you think it happens because you've got equipment that leads you to think that. When you realize emptiness, you realize that it's not really there as such. Therefore, you could also conclude rationally that it never was there. Even before you understood its emptiness, it wasn't there then either. So that means it was... In some sense, by realizing emptiness, the thing becomes extinct. But it was extinct that same way before you realized it. It's extinct. The neurotic nature of everything in our lives is already there. This world of samsara that's going through all these cycles is by nature nirvana. I'm just thinking whether it's rationally or irrationally. I always think of it as being used in the logic. It goes against the foundation of the assumptions of logic.

[51:07]

Exactly. That's another way to use it. And that's correct too. Because we're talking about the logic of liberation here. And irrational is non... it doesn't go according to the logos of the rationality of liberation. The rationality of liberation is because this apparent... because this phenomenon because this suffering is exactly this suffering, therefore it never really was there. The very fact that suffering is suffering is why it isn't suffering or why there is no suffering. That's the logic of extinction. That's not the logic which says it gets extinguished. That's the logic which says by its very nature, by the very fact that it is what it is and that it's conditioned the way it is conditioned that's exactly the reason why it isn't there. That's the logic here. If we can apply that

[52:08]

kind of logic to our life we won't get caught by this other kind of logic. So this is the logic of Christ? Yes. To follow Barbara's inquiry, the way that you're talking about extinct it sounds like what's being said is it is delusion. Or perhaps phantasm. Close. There is a constant production of things that are extinct. Sounds like there's a constant production of delusion. Yes. But in terms of our English usage it seems like it would be clearer to say to put it in terms of delusion

[53:08]

so you don't have the sense that it ever did exist. But it seems also like a decision was made not to use that. Here the decision was made to not use it that way. In the other case I was saying the constant production of delusion. The constant production of phantasm, gorical phenomena. Okay? Here I think he wants to say this because it's in parallel with him telling us that the truth of extinction does not mean that anything got extinguished. So he wants to use the word because if he is seen then usually people understand it that way and he wants to turn that around. So he wants to use it that way, I think, probably. But this is what he used it. I usually don't use it that way because of that problem. And also there is another way to say it which is Abhuta Parikalpita. Namely, the fact Parikalpita means, you know, the fact that these illusory thoughts are produced. The reality of the production of illusory thoughts or thought

[54:09]

constructions. That's another way of saying that second existence. This is a different way of saying it here. And he's saying it this way because he wants to teach what the truth of suffering means and the truth of extinction means. So I think that makes sense even if you do it in parallel here. The risk of... Remember, you're the one who told me we shouldn't be talking about some things. Yes, that's the risk I was just saying. Don't be so risky today. Anyway, these illusory productions... Somebody want to answer his question? Is he done? Did you finish? No, I didn't start. I'd rather not get into it. Maybe over coffee sometime. I'll drink the coffee.

[55:13]

I won't be able to not answer you. I want just to read a little bit more of this today. Excuse me for being so mean. He says, One who applies herself to rational thought never makes ignorance arise. Non-arising of ignorance means non-arising of the twelve parts of existence. It is called non-birth and so forth. Also, it says, O Lord, extinction of suffering does not mean the disappearance of element. By the term extinction of suffering, O Lord, there is designated the dharma body of the Tathagata, which is beginningless, immutable, of no birth,

[56:17]

non-originated, and of no destruction, free from destruction, eternal, constant, quiescent, everlasting, purified by nature, released from coverings of moral defilements, and endowed with inseparable, unthinkable qualities of the Buddha, which are far more than the sands of the Ganga in number. Here comes another kicker. And this very absolute body of the Tathagata, O Lord, when it is unreleased from the coverings of moral defilements, it is called the womb of the Tathagata. Kind of a beautiful teaching there. Did you get that? Okay, I'll read it again. O Lord,

[57:19]

extinction of suffering does not mean the disappearance of an element. By the term extinction of suffering, O Lord, there is designated the Dharma body of the Tathagata, which is beginningless, immutable, of no birth, non-originated, of no destruction, free from destruction, eternal, constant, quiescent, everlasting, purified by nature, released from the coverings of moral defilements, endowed with inseparable, unthinkable qualities of the Buddha. What am I talking about? I'm talking about the Dharma body of the Buddha. Dharma body of the Buddha is associated, it doesn't have any moral defilements covering it. It has all these wonderful, wonderful qualities. It doesn't have any beginning or ending. This is the Dharma body of the Buddha. And this very Dharma body of the Tathagata, when it is unreleased,

[58:21]

when the Dharma body is unreleased from coverings of the moral defilements, in other words, when the moral defilements are covering this wonderful Dharma body, it is called the womb of the Tathagata. That's what the womb of the Tathagata is. It's the Dharma body covered with shit. And that's where the Buddha gets born. The Buddha gets born from the Dharma body, of course, but not just the plain old Dharma body because there's no need to have a Buddha be born from a Dharma body because you already got the Buddha. What you got is that you got a Buddha in a sense of quiet, unoriginated, everlasting and so on, right? When that's covered with shit, that's where Buddhas are born. Okay? That's a teaching here. And it says in the footnote, this is a famous definition of the Tathagata Garbha. Or a famous definition, this particular one

[59:22]

right here. I'm curious about the fact that in the beginning, obstacles, hostility to obstacles, is that the shit, the obstacles? Yeah. Why hostility? This is the truth of this is the doctrine. We're talking about the gem of the Dharma jewel, right? Split into two parts. First part is the truth of extinction, the effect. We're talking on the effect side now, okay? The hostility is over on the cause side. The effect is no hostility to shit. Shit actually is where Buddha is born. Okay? Buddha is born from this pure Dharma body surrounded by shit, that's where Buddha comes out. Just like us, you know, we come out right next to the anus, right? So, the Buddhas all come out from this wrapped, this polluted,

[60:22]

pollution-covered Dharma body, that's where Buddha is, we pull Buddhas out. Okay? That's the cause we're talking about. I mean, that's the effect. The cause is purity, manifestation, and hostility. That's the other side of Dharma, the cause, the truth of the path. It's over on the path side. On this side, no hostility, except hostility as it wraps around the Dharma body where the Buddhas are born. Okay? So, this is one of the wonderful famous definitions of the Bhūna-advaita Tathāgata. Thus, all the determinations of the truth of extinction of suffering should be understood wholly and in detail according to the Sutras. In other words, we just said a little bit now, but you should study more and check this out. Maybe this is not right. Study more Sutras and see if this is true. Including, you know, you can't talk like this

[61:24]

so-called Mahāyāna Buddhism. If you don't understand the Theravāda text, the Pali text and the early Sanskrit text, you can't say this stuff. This should be, this is what Buddha said too. This is the early Buddhist teaching also. Although, in those days, people, because they were hanging around with Buddha, because the face-to-face transmission was so strong, they didn't misunderstand what the truth of extinction was. They knew it didn't mean that something got extinguished. Later, people started thinking that it meant something got extinguished. So then some people had to come around and say, that's not what Buddha meant. But you should go back and look to see what Buddha first said and see if really he didn't say that it was the extinction of something. When he said, it's like a candle going out. Candles originally are not lit, you know. Okay, so that's half the teaching about the jewel of Dharma. The next half is the truth of the path. But, it's getting too late to talk about that right now.

[62:26]

As a matter of fact, it's getting too late to talk about anything. And I wanted to talk about I wanted to talk about the Yashan a little bit more and and his disciple, Ongan Donjo. So I guess tomorrow I'll try to start with that. Because for me, this discussion we just had about about the Dharma jewel, flows nicely into those two ancestors. So I'll try to start with them tomorrow. And then if there's time, we can go back to the Dharma jewel from the point of view of the truth of the path. And then we can go on to the Sangha jewel

[63:33]

and to the Tagatagarbha and the Book of Supreme Enlightenment and the qualities of Buddha and the acts of Buddha. But we're going to have to go into another speed in order to do that. Or else we'll have to take a long time to do it. We'll see what happens. Sangha Chanting

[64:48]

Sangha Chanting Sangha Chanting By the way, I want to say that I feel, although I'm not everywhere at once, I feel like you're all making a pretty good effort to being quiet, and I haven't heard people having, you know, what do you call it, a draining conversation. So, now in the next remaining parts of the sheet I'm getting more tendency to start getting excited or something as your energy comes up. I hope you can continue with what you've been doing, it's really been good.

[66:16]

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