July 10th, 2018, Serial No. 04442

(AI Title)
00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

Serial: 
RA-04442
AI Summary: 

-

Is This AI Summary Helpful?
Your vote will be used to help train our summarizer!
Transcript: 

As is often said, all living beings have Buddha nature. Buddha nature. Also, the Chinese way of saying it in Sanskrit is Buddha element, Buddha datu, Buddha element. And there's another, yeah, so there's another teaching which is that we are what is called the Tathagata Garba. The Tathagata is the Buddha, and Garba could be translated as womb, matrix, or heart.

[01:02]

we are the Buddha heart. Buddhahood is realizing our heart, or our Tathagata Garbha, it is realizing our Buddha nature. And Buddhahood inherently includes, I'll put it this way, you might not be surprised if I said Buddhahood inherently includes all goodness. That might sound like Buddhist propaganda.

[02:04]

Yeah. But still maybe not so surprising. Oh yeah, Buddha, all goodness, all compassion, and all skillful ways to help people become Buddha. All kinds of wisdom. You might not be surprised to hear that. This teaching is saying that Buddha inherently includes all the various kinds of evil. Evil, we could tentatively have the definition of evil be whatever causes suffering. Buddha includes all the causes of suffering, and Buddha also includes all the suffering. Buddha accepts all the suffering, and by completely accepting all kinds of suffering, we have what's called the end of suffering.

[03:25]

Simultaneous with the end of suffering, due to the acceptance of all of it, there is the presence of suffering. So there's an end of it and it's always present. The suffering is not eliminated in Buddhahood and Buddhahood does not need to eliminate it and can't anyway. But Buddhahood is can accept it all and include it all. And by including it all end it. Or you could say, come to the end of it by fully accepting it.

[04:28]

So again, you've heard me say stuff like this before. what I just said, plus now tonight I'll just say, our joy includes our sorrow. Our sorrow includes our joy. Evil includes good. Our good includes evil. Delusion includes enlightenment. Enlightenment includes delusion. Welcome, Jeff. I have a seat there for you. And again, I just remind you just to sort of warm up the meditation that Buddha nature is, you know,

[05:39]

is our true nature, is the way we really are, which is related to the word tathagata, the way we really are, the thusness or suchness of the way we are and the way everybody else is. That way that we are really, which is pure, is in association with, you can say, pollution, defilement. Our Buddha nature includes evil. It's in association with evil. The Buddha nature is the way we really are, we are, It's the way we really are, it's the way everything really is, and it is in association with attachments and misconceptions.

[06:54]

So again, the sutra says, we see all living beings fully possess the Buddha nature, but because of attachments, and misconceptions, they don't realize it. But it's kind of funny that way because all beings have which has attachments and misconceptions. And so when you say, if I say, and so they don't realize it, they don't realize that Buddha nature which has these attachments and misconceptions. The realization of this suchness in association with these attachments and misconceptions, the realization of that is Buddhahood.

[08:07]

Buddhahood is not just the realization of the way things are. Buddhahood is the way things are without defilement, which comes by realizing the way things are with defilement. And we all have this nature and the way things really are, and has these defilements. And if we realize that, that's Buddhahood. And the realization of that does not try to get away from that. The realization of Buddha nature does not try to get away from Buddha nature, which means it doesn't try to get away from the defilements and misconceptions It practices, Buddhahood practices compassion towards the defilements, towards the misconceptions and the attachments.

[09:27]

In this practice of compassion, it comes to completely accept the stains and the suffering that comes with them. And again, is the fruit of the practice of practicing compassion with our Buddha nature. But, you know, our compassion is mostly in the defilements because we can't really, I shouldn't say we can't, but it's hard to imagine and be mindful of practicing compassion towards the way things are because we can't see the way they are. Part of our nature is misconceptions, but another way to put it is part of our nature is we are misconceivers.

[10:30]

We have mental apparatus which make everything into a misconception. First of all, a conception of it. we make ourselves into conceptions, we make other people into conceptions, and then we misunderstand that they're conceptions rather than what they actually are. We can't get a hold of, and we've got equipment to, you know, kind of like Kind of like avoid the way people are. Not really avoid, to try the way people really are, which we can't get a hold of, and make them into something we can get a hold of. And then we can see those things. And then if we practice compassion towards these things which have arisen because of our relationship to them,

[11:39]

we practice with these conceptions, these perceptions of things, which have arisen because of our relation to them. So I have a relationship with you that gives rise to a perception of you. You're not a perception. I have a relationship with you, you appear as a perception, and that is a misconception of the way you really are. Now, what is the way you really are and what is the way I really am? Well, I am an experience. And you are an experience. By moment, each moment, you're an experience. And in being an experience, sometimes you could say you're an experiencer and an experienced. Yes? Yes? You're saying we are an experience? An experience. And I'm an experience which, as I've told you many times before, I'm an experience which is a conversation where the whole universe has a conversation with the whole universe and gives rise to me.

[13:04]

and I have misconceptions. But the way that they actually arise is the way that they arise. And I never am out of touch with the way I really do arise. I'm never out of touch with my true nature, with my suchness. And I'm also never out of touch with my misconceptions and my attachments. And the practice that flows from this teaching is not to try to get away from misconceptions, which means don't try to get away from but also here the teaching that the way they appear is a delusion.

[14:09]

So we're meditating on delusion with a teaching which is saying this is the delusion, but simultaneous with the delusion is the way things really are. And it's not, again, so much that we're going to get away from the delusion and connect with the way things really are, because we're already connected with the way things really are. It's more like we're going to let go of the delusions. And when we let go of them without getting rid of them, because you can't get rid of a delusion, but you can let go of it And there's something left, which is the way we really are, which includes the delusion, which includes the evil. But although I include the evil, I can also let go of it.

[15:11]

And the way I let go of it is, well, by confessing and saying, sorry. And then, if I let go of it, or if it's released, what's left? Buddhahood. Which is the suchness which I had all along. The defilement which was with my suchness all along has just been dropped off. And again, if I try to get rid of it, that's not dropping it off. try to get away from it, that's not dropping at all. If I try to hold on to it, of course, that's not dropping at all. And one thing more, just to remind you that the So the way I really am is I'm a conversation of the whole universe with the whole universe giving rise to the whole universe as me in this way.

[16:22]

Each one of my experiences is the whole universe meeting the whole universe giving rise to the whole universe as my life experience. So my actual life experience is meet all of you and give rise to me. And all of us, meet all of us and give rise to you, to you as your experience, which you cannot see or get a hold of. Of how the whole universe, in conversation with the whole universe, is in the form of you. And the whole universe, in conversation with the whole universe, giving rise to you, gives rise to who can imagine a small, deluded version of herself.

[17:27]

That's part of the deal. And again, don't try to get rid of it because the whole universe got together with the whole universe to make your delusions. You're not going to... Your delusions. Your delusions are actually part of your experience. They're not all of it. They're kind of like the visible part. They're the part you can attach to and suffer with. You suffer with and suffer because you attach to it. But again, we can practice with the delusions and the suffering and let go of it. But again, not try to get rid of it because your Buddhahood does not eliminate it. It accepts it as being present. And then once again, we have these different, these seven points of this teaching is presented with seven points.

[18:34]

Yes. First point is the Buddha, next point is the Dharma, the Sangha, first is the perfect enlightenment, next is the teaching, and next is the community that practices it. These three arise from the Buddha nature, my Buddha nature, and the realization of Buddha nature, also called Buddha. So our Buddha nature, my Buddha nature, your Buddha nature, and Buddha, the realization of that Buddha nature, and the qualities of Buddha, activities of Buddha, all that gives rise to the three treasures, Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. And from the Buddha comes the Dharma, comes the teaching. From the teaching comes the Sangha.

[19:35]

And from the Sangha comes the womb of the Buddha. Yes? Suffering you experience, that's something other than suffering. At a certain point, is it possible for suffering to be transformed, the same substance, but transformed into another substance that is not painful? Is it possible to transform suffering into something else that's not painful? Okay. Mm-hmm. So if you're compassionate with suffering, then the suffering has already been transformed. Because rather than just being trouble and painful, it has now become for practice.

[20:41]

So in a way, the suffering, because your attitude towards it changed, and you see suffering now as opportunities to express the Buddhahood, and to elicit Buddhahood, somehow the suffering has changed. It's changed into a skillful means, an opportunity for skillfulness. In a way, it does change when you or I see it not as an obstacle, but as an opportunity. And so these sufferings, which go with the misconceptions and the attachments, the misconceptions, the attachments, and the sufferings, we can change our attitude towards them, and now they're all opportunities to realize Buddhahood. Yes? So when you say meditia, How do you actually do that?

[21:54]

You continue to think about whatever you want, I mean not whatever you want, whatever you're thinking about, you continue to think as usual, you always think about what you're thinking about. And you're always thinking So you always are thinking and you're always thinking about something. So that will continue. Now, you just watch that, understanding that what you're watching is delusion. It's just like, you frame it, oh, delusion. Oh, a misconception of what's going on. Something that's relative to my equipment, not the thing itself. Which reminds me to look at everything that way. and also remember that I don't have to change at all to realize Buddhahood. Because Buddhahood is the realization of the way I am. And the way I am is visibly I am somebody who has vision and my vision delivers delusions all the time.

[23:08]

So that's the way I am and I'm also the whole universe coming together with the whole universe. And I'm also including everybody in the universe. I'm that way. I can't see that, but I heard a teaching about it. And I'm included in everybody, which also I can't see. I've heard a teaching. And I can realize that, but also I'm not just going to realize the way I am purely I'm also going to realize the way my purity is in association with my delusion and suffering. But I start. So we have another class at Green Gulch, and in that class I've been talking about our ceremonies where we receive the Bodhisattva precepts. And we receive sixteen Bodhisattva precepts.

[24:13]

And the first three are Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. But before we receive these Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, in the ceremony we practice confession and repentance. All my ancient twisted karma born of beginningless delusion and greed and hatred born through body, speech and mind. So I had these actions which are born through my speech, my gestures and my thoughts which are all mixed up with greed, hate and delusion. So I have these actions and my body, I confess them. And I confess them like I meditate on them. First of all, I just say that and I meditate on it and then I'm ready after that to go back home to Buddha.

[25:19]

Which is the realization of how I drew this greed, hate and delusion thing along with the way things really are. So now I'm looking at somebody, and while I'm looking at her, I'm simultaneously imagining who she is. But I don't believe that. Yes? I don't believe what? Yeah. Fortunately, you're not being mean to. I'm trying to get it clear on this. Come to the end of suffering doesn't mean eliminate. So can we say, if you come to the end of suffering, come to the end of it's a fat mass or believing in it,

[26:23]

Yeah, or you could say you come to the end of suffering and then we have what's called peace right at the end of suffering. You come to the... So here's the suffering. You're coming to the end of it. You're going through it. Way to the end of it. There's no more suffering. You've got all of it now. And there's joy right there. The joy was always there. But because you didn't go to the end of the suffering, you were shrinking back from the limits of the suffering, which is where the happiness starts, or the pleasure starts. So you go to the end of it, and you're free of it, and you didn't get rid of it. So I've been having trouble with this vow, which is the delusions are inexhaustible, but really the character isn't delusion, it's affliction.

[27:32]

And affliction is short for delusion, hatred, and greed. So these afflictions are inexhaustible. And we say, I vow to end them. So it's more like I vow to come to the end of them or I vow to exhaust them. They're inexhaustible. I vow to exhaust them. And exhausting them is where you wake up to the pleasure that always was included. But if I don't fully accept the suffering, the door on the joy which is already there is closed by my half-heartedness in my affliction. And Buddha is not half-hearted about affliction, her own and everybody else's.

[28:33]

Buddha is accepting the omnipresence And therefore, Buddha is accepting the omnipresence of freedom from suffering simultaneously. Yes? by being wholeheartedly compassionate with them. I just got this image in my mind of something I saw at the airport, some airport, I think it was maybe either on the way to or in Japan. So I'm in the waiting area, about to get on some plane, and I see this... I think she was Japanese, but I don't know.

[29:43]

Anyway, she looked like she's from Japan or China, one of those countries where people look a certain way often. And she had a little boy that she was taking care of. She's running all over the... waiting area and she was running after him but she wasn't trying she did she didn't have him on a leash she wasn't trying to control him she was just his devoted attendant she went everywhere with him I don't know if she got that far. I don't know if she got to the end of the... What's the word? ...that she had about that little boy. I don't know if she got to the end of the suffering of protecting him from harm.

[30:48]

But she was kind of letting him go. It looked like she pretty much let him go. He wanted to go a lot of places. He was not trying to fly, which, you know, that's good. It's easier to let little boys go when they're not trying to fly. He was just being a kind of reasonable little boy, just running around, on the verge of smashing his head into chairs and falling downstairs. But he was there. And maybe in such a case, she would be challenged to let him go and also simultaneously protect him. But she was doing a very good job of basically letting him go. And it was... I don't know if she was having as good a time as I was, but the little boy was having a really nice time because he wanted her to... Part of the fun was she was going with him on the elevator.

[32:00]

I think he appreciated that she was there and letting him do what he wanted to. And I was appreciating that she was doing that. I don't know if she was. But I think she was close to getting to the place of realizing that, you know, Buddhahood. That's how to... practice with this in order to let go, is to wholeheartedly engage with it and give up trying to control it. Wholeheartedly engage with suffering and with delusion without trying to control it. And that comes to the end of it. And that's freedom with it. With it. That's freedom in it. And we're not... We're doing it to transmit to sentient beings so they can... It isn't that we save them, but the practice which we can actually become mature in, that practice will save them when they see it and they start practicing it.

[33:19]

And our true nature is what makes this saving possible. Erika? I think that greed, hate and delusion are born from believing appearances. If we understood that what we are right now is the whole universe coming together meeting the whole universe, the whole universe where we are, we would understand that there's nothing to get a hold of, and therefore there would be no greed. And there's nothing to avoid or get rid of, therefore there would be no hatred. And also there would be no confusion, because we wouldn't be trying to make this into this little pipsqueak of a perception which we think is what's really going on.

[34:26]

So there will be no delusion either if we realize the way we actually are. And also, realizing the way we actually are, we also realize we don't have to get rid of any of these delusions. We don't have to have any more delusions than we've got. We've got them all. We include all delusions and all goodness. Yes? What about some boundaries Boundaries. Yeah. The little boy turns and slaps the mother and he spits at her. Yeah. Well, that's not a boundary, that's a slap. At what point the mother has to protect... Well, at what point the mother has to what? You do not have to protect your Buddha nature. Your Buddha nature, it doesn't need any protection. Because your Buddha nature is the way you are.

[35:29]

And you don't need to protect your delusions. But you do need to be kind to your delusions. Your delusions, whenever you've got a delusion, it doesn't need any protection. It's like a big fat boss delusion. It's calling for compassion. What? I'm talking about a bully believing that other people can be abused. There's some boundary. Oh, I thought you were talking about the mother who got slapped. Yes. But you want to switch to the person who's slapping her? We can do either side of the... Well, that's kind of what bullies are about. They're trying to control people. Again, you're saying limits, you're saying boundaries.

[36:59]

For me, I don't, I actually myself try not to set boundaries, I try to feel them. I try to feel them and also listen to what, if other people are telling me about their boundaries and be compassionate to my feelings. and being compassionate towards what I'm hearing as other people's boundaries. And boundaries are like the limit of a... A delusion has a boundary. A feeling... There's a feeling of boundary. These are things to meditate on and be compassionate. And if I'm compassionate towards my, the boundaries I feel, I might be able, then this is an opportunity, maybe, to tell somebody else about them. Yeah, okay.

[38:02]

I feel bounding. Yeah. It seems to me. No, but in the case... Wait a second. If you... Do you say you feel at your boundary? Yeah. So I have to slow down here a little bit, okay? So if my granddaughter slaps me, which I've told you about... I don't slap her back. I say, oh, that was really hard. And I say, actually, I'm a grown man, and it didn't hurt me that much, but if you did that with another kid, it would really be a problem. But I'm not... Yeah, so I... Myself. Now...

[39:04]

And then I was kind to my boundary, and so I could be kind to her. I didn't think you did say that. But then you said, it doesn't matter whether it's my boundary or not. If it's not my boundary, then I can also, somebody else can tell me about theirs. And I can be compassionate to their boundary. Is this working for you? What? I guess I'm not talking... You can generalize, that's fine. And then there can be boundaries on generalizations, too. That's fine, you can do that. some people are interacting with each other and they're perfectly comfortable with each other and you think there's a boundary there and they don't think so.

[40:11]

I mean, I shouldn't say they don't think there's a boundary. They feel comfortable with the way the boundaries are being related to. For example, I felt comfortable with the way the woman was relating to her son. Somebody else might have thought, you shouldn't be letting that boy go around like that. because he might get hurt. But I felt really good that she gave him that space. But someone else could have had, in them, they could have had a boundary arising. They think the child should be tied up. They might have thought that, because if you don't tie the kid up, he might hurt himself. But that would be their boundary, that they would feel about this relationship, where I didn't feel, I felt comfortable with the way the mother was negotiating her sense of what was safe for the boy. And if somebody else is watching and they think that this child should be tied up so he won't hurt himself, then I can respect what they're saying.

[41:14]

And if they say it in a way that I feel uncomfortable with, then now I feel the way they're talking about relating to this other person. So boundaries do come up. And this teaching that I'm offering is saying when boundaries come up, I don't try to control them. I try to come to the end of them, and then I can let go of them. But not by ignoring them, and not by what? Not by ignoring them, not by trying to control them or other situations. If I try to control boundaries, you might feel a boundary arise in you in relationship to my attempt to control you. A lot of people do. I want you to tell me more now.

[42:18]

...to social interaction. That's what I'm having trouble with. It's one thing to use the example, you know, perception. You should be a good kid, but not a good parent. You know, a child who says, hold on, I'm going to print something. It seems to me, I don't have to wait to know what you're about. It's a child, I say. he'll say it compassionately, say it just personally. Right, but what I'm saying is that if you feel that what your child is doing is not appropriate, for me that's your boundary, that you're feeling. Someone else might not feel that that is, for them that might be within their boundaries.

[43:21]

What your child is doing might be within their boundaries. If you want to play it out into more and more extreme examples, I'm happy to do that. But I'm just saying that the meditation that I was talking about, I'm aware that I'm dealing with my delusions, that I have a delusion about what's going on, and I'm feeling like I'm having some boundary problems. I'm starting to feel like I need to say, wait a minute, I feel like I need to say something to the person, like they're getting too close to me, or they're or they're pushing me too hard, you know.

[44:24]

I just naturally feel a boundary in this situation. They're getting too aggressive for me. This is my perception. This is not a reality that they're getting too aggressive. It's just I think so. And I have the responsibility to take care of that. I think that they're getting too aggressive, whether they're 300 pounds or 35. I think they're getting too aggressive. So how do I relate to a small, medium, or large person when I feel they're getting too aggressive? It's not just aggressive. I can feel that way. So how do I relate to them? Well, first of all, I start with myself. This is my version of what's going on. And my version is not reality. But I have to respect my version. My version is, this is too much. I'm uncomfortable with this. And I feel I should say something about it.

[45:27]

But if I'm aware that it's a delusion that I'm working with, and I've got a person over there who's not my idea of them, they're actually a living person, and I can tell them about my boundary in a way that is informed by my meditation, that I'm sharing with them my misconceptions and my attachments. And I can talk, and then I can be... Then it's an opportunity to practice Buddhism with them. And it doesn't mean that this approach will be, I don't think this is going to be more likely to disarm the situation than the other way, which is, I see this situation and this is reality. And then to follow from that, I'm not saying that it's less likely to disarm the situation. But I'm saying that way will not lead to peace.

[46:30]

It will not. And this way will. They're both difficult, but this way here, my boundaries, within my delusions, and therefore, when I approach the person, I approach humbly, not arrogantly. Like, I, you know, I'm a good guy. and you are, and this is uncomfortable for me, and I'm going to try to control you. I don't want to... If I feel that way, I feel like I'm temporarily disqualified from the practice. I have to come back and deal with my... And then say, oh yeah, I'm kind of... I'm kind of ashamed. I was really self-righteous there. And I was on the verge, maybe, of being aggressive towards this aggressive person.

[47:33]

Now I've recovered. I saw that signal. I took care of myself. And I still have the boundary. But now I'm sharing my delusion with the person, or my fantasy. So I often say to people, I have this fantasy about what's going on here. Could I tell you about it? Yes, and then Katie. Did you have your hand raised? It was about the violence, the language of violence. And when I understood it, that the language of violence coming at me, I have a boundary not to respond with that takeaway. So what I'm saying is a little bit different. You're saying the language of violence is coming to me? The words and the gestures of violence are coming towards you.

[48:35]

What I'm saying is that this language of violence there is relative to me. It's not actually out there sitting by itself. The ball of language of violence is not out there by itself. But it looks like it is. You're saying, when you have been, when you have a certain history. And I'm saying, because I have a certain history, this is what I see. Somebody has a certain history, they see something different. Both people, what they're seeing is relative to their own system, with their own equipment. What they're seeing is not out there, but it looks like it's out there. Like this person sees the language of violence, this person sees something, I don't know what.

[49:39]

But it doesn't mean we... It doesn't mean we... I'll put it positively. We should respect this delusion. then we can respond to it appropriately. That's the language of aggression or violence, rather than, this is what I see. I see cruelty. Now, like I just read in the New Yorker, the theater of Christ unfolding on our southern border. This is what that person who wrote that article is saying. And then he talks about Trump. Okay? And I listen to that and I'm moved by it. But also, somebody else reads that article and has quite a different response to it.

[50:45]

So what do I do when I see cruelty? What I'm seeing is my story that does cruelty. If I'm respectful, then it turns into an opportunity to practice. It still looks like cruelty. That's how my equipment put it together, as cruelty. But now I see this is an opportunity, like this is a job for Superman. This is a job for Buddha. This is stimulating me to come forth with practice. But not at all pushing away my delusion that this is cruelty. But this delusion is calling for compassion. Cruelty is not calling for more cruelty. And also, kindness is not calling for cruelty.

[51:49]

I'm saying everything is calling for compassion. And so if I see cruelty, what I'm seeing is my story about it. And I can practice compassion towards my story and the people involved in my story. And I can have limits, like you're talking too loud, you're getting too close, you're waving your arms too much, you're being disrespectful. Or to say it this way, I'm feeling uncomfortable of what you're doing. I feel I need you to speak more quietly. Like we say, I need you to use your indoor voice. I need you to use your words. I need you to sit down. I need you to be more respectful. Please be more respectful. But I have to say that in a way that's respectful. Bully. In other words, what I see as a bully. And again, I tell this story so many times.

[52:50]

Here it is again. My friend's on a trolley in Japan. And the trolley stops, and a big man gets on the trolley, and he looks like a bully. He's walking up the aisle, glaring at everybody, and he's big, and he's threatening. He's looking at people very threateningly. That's what my friend saw. And probably some of the other people saw that too. Big thing. But each person had their own picture of him. And my friend who was an Aikido master said, when it gets to me, I'll take care of him. But the trolley stopped and a man got on, an old man got on and saw the man and he saw, oh, here's an opportunity for compassion. And he said, what's the matter, sweetheart? And the man broke down into tears.

[53:54]

His wife had just died. So we see that the bully is calling for compassion. I have to recognize this is my delusion. Here's a bully. I have to be compassionate to my story. This is a bully. And then I can realize this bully is calling for compassion in this way called storming around. And this man, he not only disarmed the person, but he helped him. He gave him what he was asking for, which nobody else, well, maybe some other people did, but maybe nobody else on the trolley could see this man. They're all just like, here's a bully. And they didn't know how to deal with their own sense of here's a bully in such a way as to be able to say, what do you want? What do you want? person who looks like a bully to me, you know, you just might say, can I help you?

[55:03]

What do you want? What do you need? And really mean it. Because you see this as an opportunity. And does that disarm the situation? Sometimes. Always. Even the Buddha couldn't stop everybody that tried to hurt him. But he did, on a number of occasions, meet people who were, in one case, a person who actually had murdered many people, and he was going to murder the Buddha. And the Buddhist thought, oh, here's an opportunity to protect people. And so he went up to the guy and told him, well, I'm your friend. And the guy didn't buy it. But he's basically there to try to help this super-bully. And he felt a limit. He felt like this guy is too... He's a... to me. I want to save people from him and him from this behavior.

[56:06]

So you're giving me a facial expression which means to me I'm... say to me right now. Okay. And who was the next person? Katie? It might be possible to gain great insight from what? The realization of Buddhahood is based on the relationship between delusion and reality. That's what makes Buddhas. So, if you think a Buddha is a beneficial thing, because Buddhas come with all these skills and ways of helping people, the Buddhas come from the sewers.

[57:19]

But not just the sewers, because the sewers are always inseparable. from reality. So, yes. Yes, yes, yes.

[57:33]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_87.59