The main characters of this case are called Rinran, or in Japanese, Rinran, and Yanto, or in Japanese, Ganko. Yu-Yan means, in the structure of Yu-Yi, I think it means like a tablet, celebrating, honoring someone or discerning authority. So it means auspicious or a symbol of joy. And Yan means... Yan means clip or precipice, auspicious precipice.

[01:10]

And yanto means top of the clip or clip top. So it's, you know, auspicious clip talking to top of the clip. I don't know why, you know, I looked up the character for G-Eon, but I found it under a different pronunciation. You know why that is? It's under, like, G instead of G, the sound-wise, but it's under the character, you know, for Jade, Jade Radical. J-U-I? Yeah, J-U-I. I know, but I didn't find it under J-U-I. Oh, I'm sorry. What did you find it in? I looked it up under the J radical, and it's pronounced differently.

[02:12]

Oh, J radical. Yeah, that's... And in Japanese, it's pronounced three. And in Chinese, they usually pronounce... Three. But that wasn't the sound that they had in the dictionary. But anyway... The traditional sounding is , auspicious, asked a question. And this story is supposedly their meeting story. when they met. And this is one of these Zen stories where they meet. Now, they meet, maybe for the first time, and on the first occasion, the monk becomes awakened. And then after the story's over,

[03:19]

And there is a story that every day, I think presumably, I've also heard every day when Yuyen woke up in the morning, you know, he looked in the mirror and said, Master. And then he would say, Yes, sir. Or yes. Yes. And he said, are you awake? And then he would say, yes. And he'd say, all day long, don't be deceived by others. And he said, I won't. I won't. Andy translated it, I think, as master, yes. Be alert. Is that right?

[04:22]

He took it as the second one, like suggesting to be awake or be alert. But other translations I've seen say, are you alert? Are you awake? And he said, yes. And all day long, don't be deceived by others. So this is a story I've always liked and It's funny because he's addressing himself at the beginning, you know, master. Or lord, yes. But that's after this story. This story he says to another Zen monk, he said, what is the fundamental constant principle? And Yanto says, moving. And Yanto says, When moving, what then?

[05:25]

And Yantou said, you don't see the fundamental principle. And Yu Yantou stood there thinking for a while, and Yantou said, if you agree, yet free of sense and matter, If you don't agree, you'll be forever sunk in birth and death. Characters for sense and matter are characters that are usually used for, like, one character for the organs and the other for the field, the two kinds of materiality the sense organs the field of the sense organs like the eye and light or the eye and electromagnetic radiation here in mechanical waves this you know three of these of these two kinds of materiality if you agree if you don't agree you are sunk in birth and death forever um

[06:37]

that's the way it, that's its formula, and that's the ancient one for written. I see. But when it's normally spoken, great. Thank you. So I suppose some of you would like to tell us about what the fundamental constant principle is. Right? Yeah. It's moving. Thank you. We're moving right there.

[07:50]

What is the fundamental constant principle? How many of these? There is no fundamental constant principle. It seemed like it's impermanent. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Me too. That's what you do, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. And then moving, does that seem like what the fundamental principle is? Huh? And then when moving, then what?

[08:51]

Are we agreeing? It sounds like it, doesn't it? Anybody want to disagree? Anybody want to agree or disagree with that? Better agree. Better to agree. Ignorance is last phase. So, when moving, how, what, then? You don't see the fundamental principle, is that right? Is that how it is? When moving, you don't see the moving?

[09:55]

Yeah. Doesn't that make sense? Do you agree with yourself? Yeah. Okay, so that settles that. How are you thinking? So if you agree with that, do you see how you're not free of the senses and the fields? You don't understand? Do you see how you disagree, you're in big trouble? The hard part is how agreeing wouldn't be free. When you agree, you stop? Maybe, it's possible, but when you agree, what are you agreeing to?

[11:04]

Huh? You agree? What? You agree. What did you say, Lisa? Agreement becomes the next moment and you've lost the moment. Agreement becomes the next moment and you've lost the moment. Agreement is a view of the world. Agreement is a view of the world. That's not true either. Liz, I agree with you. But that's similar to the other two statements. That's similar to... What do you say about the view of the world? When you agree there's a view of the world that's similar to birth and death? What? What about birth and death? It's samsara. What's samsara? I'm sorry.

[12:08]

I said agreement with samsara. You're agreeing to samsara because... You're agreeing to samsara. Because impermanence is the logic of samsara. Uh-huh. But also you're... Yeah, so that's the logic of the vision, and also it's the view of the world. It's a view. It's a sense view. Now, if you don't agree with it, then you're... then you're in bigger trouble. How come? Why would it be better to agree than not to agree? See, one's forever, and the other one is just you're not free yet. By agreeing, at least you have correct views. Uh-huh. You're not deluded about too much. You're not deluded what? Do you know that you're agreeing with the view of the world?

[13:12]

Good, you're not sure, huh? You know, in the first case, when you agree, that you're agreeing to a view of the world. Because you're not free from something matter. Are you agreeing with that? No. I mean, I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. You're not agreeing or disagreeing, you're asking? Yeah. What are you asking? If because you're not free from something matter. Was that a question? No, it's really not a necessary question. Oh, yeah, so what was your question? Yeah. Okay. What is the assertion? That you're moving because you're not free from certain matters. And do you agree with that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[14:27]

When I had to state the long before, when living what then, and I'm assessing that, I didn't care about the way that you're talking about it either way. Just because you ask that question, you don't know the principle. Because he said, what then? It wasn't an answer to his question. Pardon? Pardon? That the lines, when moving, what then? I thought that Yantel was saying, But if you're asking that, you don't see the fundamental principle. And someone else read it that way, too? What's the other possibility? One possibility is the teacher saying, if you ask that question, you don't see the fundamental constant principle.

[15:31]

The other possibility would be? He's answering the question. But when you're moving, you don't see the fundamental principle. Yeah. Right. Those are two different answers, right? Got those two different answers? Now what do you do? What do you do? Do you take one of the views or do you ask are they mutually exclusive? What do you think he was doing? Huh? You think he's saying both? Somebody else is saying, well, then maybe they aren't mutually exclusive, so then maybe you're saying both. And some other people are taking one or the other. Okay? Huh? So what's he doing? What did he do? Huh? What does he do? That's part of the way he's doing it. that he was using his senses.

[16:34]

You know, they say he was thinking. He stood there and thinking. Now, apparently, it wasn't like a little longer than that. It was a little longer than real fast. That's kind of like what we're doing here. to get in trouble or recover or not get in any trouble at all. Yes? When moving you can't. When moving you can't. When moving you don't. And we don't understand. Yes? You can't see it, but it's constantly moving.

[17:38]

You can't see it? Oh, yeah. It's constantly here? That's an implication, I don't know about the translation, but So then he's thinking, and then while he's thinking, the teacher mentions that if he agrees, he's got a problem, and if he disagrees, he's got a problem. So, yeah? Yeah. So, how about you? What's it like? To agree? What's it like to disagree and what's it like to avoid those? Not agreeing or disagreeing is freedom. Right. So is that how you are? I knew it when I came, but not the way I knew you.

[18:56]

Oh, well, how are you? Um, um... It's probably because of you. That's okay. That's okay. How so? You agree with what he just said? I would say more than that, but yeah, I'm going to say no. So now you're ready for the verse.

[20:23]

This translation says, the round pearl has no hollows. The great raw gem isn't polished. What is esteemed by people of the way is having no edges. Moving the road of agreement, senses and matter are empty. Resting on nothing stands out, unique and living. Okay, so this is a difficult situation to demonstrate, but it's pretty clear what's being asked.

[21:34]

So let's express that's not involved in agreement or disagreement. Yes? I'm wondering if this process of thinking, which feels like a constraint, is... How are you doing? I'm wondering. You're wondering? Uh-huh. Is that agreeing or disagreeing? It's... Is that agreeing or disagreeing? It's being interested. What are you interested in? I'm interested in... Freedom. Yeah. Is that freedom?

[22:35]

Close by. Close by? It must not be very far from freedom. It's right, but is it freedom? No. Do you want to be interested, or do you want the freedom? That's heaven's free body. That's right. Well, good. So you're free of that interest now. Congratulations. How about you? Could you make a space over there for Berndt by moving over there? Can you move over there for Berndt? Can you come up here, Berndt, please? How are you doing?

[23:57]

Wow. I feel a cliff is created right now, right here, by worms. You agree? I'm amazed. We have a nervous system. Life is amazing. How about you? How about you?

[25:09]

How about you? How about you? Any ideas? Probably. Try to understand. Try to understand. How about you?

[26:32]

How about you? Pivoting about. How is it? Awkward. Awkward? Any edges? Plenty. Like what? Coming to a clip. Which one? Wait a moment. How about you? You do?

[27:41]

Any edges on it? What are they? What is it? How is it? How is the edge? Is the body freak? Before you didn't know, what did your tongue do? The tongue cold first. How about you? The body is thumping. How about you? Thumping? Is this an agreement or a disagreement?

[28:46]

Response? Does that mean it's not an agreement? Does it mean? What does it mean? How does it feel? I don't know. I don't know.

[29:51]

How about you? You don't agree? You don't agree? We are. Believe. Believe? The body believes? Whatever.

[30:56]

Are you reading a book? Is it interesting? Are you reading that? Is that how it is for you? Half agree, half not agree? It is? Body and mind are in conflict? Can anyone help you? How are you doing? Do you want to help?

[32:41]

Do you want to help? Do you want to help? Pardon? Right. Now, if I'm asking you, do you want to help? If it's requested? If you're requested to help and it's not within your capability, you don't want to? Yes? What about metrics? Worth a try?

[34:25]

I'd like some. Would you like help? She'd like some help. Would you please give her some help? What I want is my mouth. I don't know.

[35:26]

Is it helpful? Yes. Absolutely. It's helpful. [...] Taking his hand back. Was his hand back helpful? Or was you letting it go helpful? Neither one. Was the other one helpful? I think letting it go was helpful.

[36:31]

How was it helpful? There was a feeling. There was a feeling? Yeah? A helpful feeling? Well, I don't want to call him raw, but he's a great gem. Can I take a minute? Sure. Do you agree? Do you want to ask for any more help from Ring? Because she might not be here on the phone. I'd like for both of us to be in the room.

[37:55]

And we'll be pretty calm. Is there any particular kind of freedom you'd like to start with? That you'd like her to help you with? So it's clear, it's clear. Body and mind, we drop it, body and mind. Without you, it's very hard. You know, no problem with it. You can start with the ground. Thank you.

[39:01]

How about you, Pat, Leonetti? How about you, Lynn? Opening and fear. Opening and fear.

[40:51]

Opening and fear. Opening and fear. If the fear is first, then you can open any fear, don't you mean? If the fear is second, then it's opening any fear, don't you mean? Or do you mean something else? No. I can tell you what you mean. Fear. Fear. Fear. Is it opening time now? How are you opening? Breathing.

[42:15]

Any edges on the opening? The edge of the opening? Do you want me to say that? How about the same one? Is there the edge of the opening? Did I say that? You can't see that? Right? Like you said? Yeah, is fear the edge of the opening? You've got the opening, and then there's an edge on the opening. Is that where the fear is? No. No?

[43:17]

Where is the fear? In the middle. The fear is in the middle of the opening? Yes. Wow. It's in the middle of me. It's in the middle of you? Yes. In your opening? Yes. So how's that? Well... Is this for you? You don't like white? You don't like white? What about the opening? It is? Well, I'm happy for them. You're happy about the opening? Oh, yeah. Are you really afraid? Yes. Are you pretty sure you're afraid?

[44:23]

Are you really afraid? Maybe I'm not. Yeah, maybe you're not. What? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's not you. Huh? Maybe it's not you. Maybe you're the openness. Is that okay? Okay. All right. Are you enlightened? Pardon? Look better. How about you, Nicholas? Really? Oh. Is that all you have to say? That's it?

[45:36]

I don't have much to say? Could you say it again? You want to say that again? Actually, I would. How many times have you said that would be a lot? Right now? I think Bill wants to help you. Pardon? Yeah, he did. That's true. Did you hear it, Nicholas? Okay. You were? What would you say if you weren't polite? You'd just be quiet when I called in? And if I had to come up here, what would be the impolite thing to do? And if I asked you to stay there, what would be the impolite thing to do?

[46:38]

And I would move. But you don't want to be impolite necessarily, right? Not necessarily. Right. So if I asked you to move, you might move out of politeness. Yeah. Would you allow me to ask you to move? I'd love to. Would you move, please? Where? Do you want me to tell you where? I'd like to move up closer here. And you probably, you know, things would be different. You'd like to move? Yeah, you can move. Huh? Then you can sit there if you want to. Would you sit here? Okay. Where were we before? We didn't have much to say. So how are you?

[47:39]

Now you're starting a conversation. So this is what I said when he stepped out for a little bit. How are you? OK. What do you think of this case? I kind of took it the first time the way you said it. And I forgot my case, but the way you read, I remember reading it and then back the way I put it in the question. Then I saw the way the other people were saying it. And how did you take it? How did you take it? Basically, you can't put a finger on it. You can't talk about the unspeakable. So sometimes all this speech is just, I can't kind of relate to it.

[48:48]

Because I can't see why we're trying to grasp something that we can't even speak about. We're trying to rationalize something that's not. We're trying to go through a discourse to reach something that we can't even speak about. Does it sometimes look like that? I'm sorry? Does it sometimes look like that? I think it is that. You think it what? It is that. Are you trying to do that? Trying to do it? Trying to do what? Get something. That's my problem. I'm trying to... That is my problem. I'm trying to speak something that I know is weird. So I can't figure out why I'm... I'm not, I'm not confessing it.

[49:51]

That's what I said earlier. I didn't have anything to say at that time until something else would provoke it and get me to move. So you're... Some tendency perhaps in you and maybe in other people to try to grasp something they can't grasp. Right. And... But also, are you trying to find a way to, you know, kind of grasp what can't be grasped? Right. So I'm still grasping. And that's where the circle keeps going. I'm going from this way, that way, and back and forth. And I just have to... Stop. Stop. Stop talking, you know. Wait a second. You have to stop talking? Well, stop talking about it. ...trying to rationalize it, stop trying to pinpoint it, unless we have to talk about it. And then I'm talking about it. Because if I ask, hey, that's why I asked you, so you'd talk about it.

[50:54]

You wouldn't be stuck in not talking about it. All right. All right. Okay. Tomorrow I can progress. Yeah, well, actually, tonight you progressed. Okay. And heard everybody around say, oh, you progressed, didn't you? Amazing, isn't he? Yeah. There's nothing amazing. Is that right, Fred? Do you agree? No. No, you don't? Do you disagree? No. What do you? How do you? How do you do? It's better not to. It's better not to?

[51:57]

And what is better to do? No doing. No doing is better? What's better than better? Worse. Worse is better than better? It can be. Okay, is it worse? It can be worse. At that moment it's worse. You were crying? You weren't crying? Oh. Well, how are you? Really?

[52:59]

Wow. You're waiting for you. Could you tell us a little bit of it? And then you want to talk? You're ready to talk. No, I'm saying, when you're happy, are you ready to talk? You're afraid to talk when you're happy? And now there's nothing fantastic. Well, you're invited to talk. And we actually already did, thank you. What do you think of this case? I love this case. You do? Do you love all the cases? No. Hallelujah. Are you in love with this case?

[54:01]

Probably. I didn't know it. Would you like to marry this case? Or you can think about it for a little while. Actually, this case is proposing to you. It's saying, will you marry me? But you can think it over for a while. Anybody else want to marry this case? You do? Correct. Do you mind sort of a... Can she watch? Sure. That seems reasonable. We're better at the worst. I didn't say to possess the case, because that can be another question.

[55:23]

This is to love the case, not to possess the case. Okay? This is to marry the case, not possess the case. This is like, you know, a modern marriage. Ginny. Neither agree nor disagree. That's the best. That's what Fred likes. It's really great to neither agree nor disagree. That's really what we're looking for here. Don't you think so? If you agree that what someone is telling you, then you are leaving a focus. You're perspective. You might be putting away an edge. You all want to.

[56:23]

So by doing it, you're more free. Maybe. And neither of the three more disagree. Yes. Are you aware of the person standing in time to incorporate it with the project, but you're not picking a stand one way or the other, then? Why don't you try it out and see, and then you can tell me what you find out. Go ahead. Neither green or this green. Tell me about the edges. Maybe you don't know how. That's kind of like maybe a really kind of a, that is the case, maybe.

[57:27]

That's the thing, that's the challenge of this case is finding how to enter this place that you don't know how to do. You know how to agree and disagree. Do you agree with what you just said? But do you disagree with what you just said? I think that agreeing might not leave you open to what the person is saying. Well, but being neither agreeing nor disagreeing, I think, leaves you more open to what the person is saying.

[58:34]

That's the great virtue of neither agreeing nor disagreeing. Is that the not knowing? Is it not knowing? Is that the not knowing? Yeah, that's it. You got it. You're right. You're absolutely correct. Pardon? Whatever he said, forget it. Don't tell her. Yes, it does. It takes another layer of moss off that stone. Yeah, if you're really free, you can go right ahead and totally in agreement or disagreement. That's the virtue of either agreeing or disagreeing, is that you can do either.

[59:39]

You don't? You don't understand? But do you agree? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Huh? Are you holding back? Well, what is it that you're showing me? Are you showing me neither? Huh? You're showing me neither? So, what don't you understand about what you're showing me? No. Huh? Agree? Or something? No. No. I mean, I'm not... I can't move from there, is what I want to say.

[60:51]

You can't move, but it moves. You moving is like, you know, you're unmoving. And then you can move. But you move. There. You move there. Moving. For a while. But now it looks like you got back into, yeah. You got back into, I don't know what it is, disagreement or disagreement, but you're back home now. Come on up. There you go. There it is. There you go. This is it. This is the movement. Yeah. That's how it is. It's fantastic. Look at it. Yeah, that's it. You got it. That's it. Can you believe it? No, you disagree.

[61:54]

No, you're not disagreeing. And you're not agreeing either. Arlene, how are you? Do you like this case? It's interesting. Go ahead. Don't ever say that word again, please. At first I thought, huh, I feel like I'm on the edge of a cliff. You should be on top of a cliff, actually. Okay, if I have to either agree or disagree. It's here to what? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh-huh. And better to be. Better to be. Yonto. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, so are you Yonto?

[63:10]

No, I'm Nome, right? Catherine, Catherine. Thank you. What do you think of this case? Difficult. Difficult? How? Don't tell anything now. Beginners 9. Beginners 9? Is it difficult? It's open. It's open? Are you open now? Ego?

[64:18]

Open? Be the pearl? Be the big pearl? Ego ready? Divisional ready? Rigid ready? Cracking. Cracking. Cracking. Neither. Cracking neither? How bad? Is it what you want? It is? Intoxicated?

[65:23]

How do you take care of this drunk? Yes. And how is that? and intoxicated, kill intoxicated? Space between the green, bit intoxicated. Is there more to help people? Faith?

[66:23]

What kind of faith? That there is a faith . And faith that like, what do you mean faith that there is? Look over here. Is this the state between? I have the intoxication level now. Ever.

[67:27]

Really? Yeah. Ever. Mia, what do you think of this case? Not moving. Not moving? Would you please move? Yes. Thank you. Now, how's the case? My heart feels like a Pac-Man. Your heart feels like a? Pac-Man. Pac-Man? Yes. Do they have Pac-Girl, too? Pac-Winnie? Pac-Winnie? It's not Pac-Man. Ms. Pac? Ms. Pac-Man? Anna, what is his case?

[68:45]

I was just thinking about the second one. Sorry, I don't know. Okay, that's okay. What is his case? Yeah, what is this case? Ana, what is the case? Is that not moving? Is that not moving? What do you think? What's wrong with me, Ana? What do you think now that you're wondering? Related?

[70:01]

Yes, definitely. It's fuzzy? You feel fuzzy? What can you work with? So which way? Can you go one way or another now? Can you completely agree? You can? What are you agreeing with? What are you agreeing about? You agree that being here, you agree to be here. Can you disagree? You didn't?

[71:03]

And now? What was the school scenario? Horror? I don't want to be you. You don't want to be seen? Yeah, I don't want to be. Yeah, I don't want to be. You don't want to be... Picked. Picked? Did you get picked? No, it was a good moment. That's okay. What does okay mean? What's a good moment?

[72:08]

To feel. Yes, whoever that is with the hand in the air. I totally agree with Anna. I totally agree with Anna. Would you come up here, please? No. Ana, would you ask her to come up here, please? Can everybody stand around?

[73:19]

Can everybody stand around? We're all ready to turn around. What about Ana do you totally agree with? I felt the same. That's what you think. That you didn't want to be here? Mm-hmm. And then? And then? And then? And then you could talk. Mm-hmm. What do you think of the Cape Town?

[74:48]

I can speak to others on words. How's the case for you, Michael? Painful.

[76:29]

Painful? What? Quite a sneeze. Tell me about it, please. Cleaning rat. Not moving. Cleaning rat? A great wave of weight of discontent, and it's a painful weight? Yeah. Do you agree?

[77:39]

Are you dying there too? I wish I was. Are you? Have your wish come true? Might it have come true? Yeah. Could it be duct tape? More real. How's the case with you, Michael?

[79:16]

Painful. Painful? What? Quite a sneeze. Tell me about it. Creating rest, not moving. Creating rest. Great wave of discontent. A great wave of weight of discontent. Do you agree?

[80:30]

Do you disagree? And when you say die there too, are you dying there too? Are you? Has your wish come true? No. Might it have come true? Yeah. Could it be .8? Well, real. Exactly correct.

[82:01]

Would anyone like to say anything? Would that be a constant, fundamental principle moving all the time? Well, I need to try something. She said, I moved twice in five weeks. And Andy said, I wouldn't call that confident. And Martha said, Amy helped. You come back here and sit with it?

[83:23]

Yes. We're getting higher and stronger than we are today. I say, my baby, we will never burn.

[83:57]

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