We have just recited a vow transmitted from the ancestor Ehe Dogen. And I was, as usual, struck by something in it, which is, enable us to attain enlightenment and let go of the attainment. So in hopes to aid you to let go of your enlightenment, I have some teachings to offer you today. But before I offer them, maybe I should ask if you'd like to hear them.

[01:01]

Would you like to hear them? Yes, please. Are you ready to let go of your enlightenment? Michelle? I mean, what's good about letting go? Well, why should one? And if one should lend, is there anything to let go of? There's nothing to let go of, but are you willing to let go of it even so? Pardon? I don't think there's any choice. You don't think there's any choice? she doesn't think there's any choice. Are you willing to sit still? Do you think there's any choice in sitting still? If you sit still, that's very similar to letting go of enlightenment.

[02:07]

You're not sitting, holding on to enlightenment, you're just sitting. Yes, Julie? What is enlightenment? It's something to... It's a gift. It's a gift. And it's a gift. It's something you can be given and something you can then give. There's nothing to give. Like, for example, yourself. Even though there's nothing really to you, You can give yourself away or not. And if you don't, let me know and I'll try to help you. Because I really would like you to give yourself away. Since you're here, please give yourself. Thank you for giving yourself away.

[03:12]

There's a sutra, a Mahayana Sutra called, in Sanskrit, Samdhinir Mochana, which means something like opening the real meaning of the Buddhist teaching. Somehow talks have been given on this for ten years or so, and now the talks on this sutra are towards being a book. And some study groups at Green Gulch were going through these talks on the sutra, editing them in hopes that these comments, these talks on the sutra will be helpful. I guess last year, mostly, here at Noah Boat, I gave some talks on the sutra, didn't I?

[04:38]

And so those are part of this book. But there's no recording of talks on the last two chapters of the sutra. And I don't know if... the publisher wants the last two chapters included in the book, but I thought I'd say a little bit about the last two chapters and see what happens. So now you today will be offered some comments on these last two chapters of this amazing scripture. So there's ten chapters and the current book has the first eight chapters.

[05:53]

This sutra is set in a celestial palace. And it's not actually set on the planet Earth exactly. It's sort of in relationship to the planet Earth, but it's kind of like Above it or maybe, perhaps it's underground, I don't know. But anyway, it's not actually in the ordinary world that this sutra is set. And the Buddhas in this sutra is teaching many bodhisattvas. And the bodhisattvas that are being taught are familiar to us.

[07:12]

For example, Manjushri Bodhisattva, Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, Maitreya Bodhisattva, and then some other bodhisattvas like Paramartha Samangatta, who are not so familiar. and Suvisurimata, who are not so familiar. All these bodhisattvas, however, are on the brink of Buddhahood. They're fully enlightened, but they're not yet Buddhas. It's not time for them. It's not their turn. One of them, Maitreya Buddha, Maitreya Buddha, Maitreya Bodhisattva is said to be the next Buddha in our world system. The others will be Buddhas somewhere else.

[08:14]

So these Bodhisattvas are very highly developed. In this sutra, Ask the Buddha Questions, each chapter is a chapter of a particular Bodhisattva asking the Buddha questions. rather than some sutras where the Buddha speaks the teaching. Or even sometimes people in other sutras, the students, and the Buddha gives an answer. But in this case, almost all the questions are being asked by these very developed beings who are asking not just a question, but they're asking questions about teachings the Buddha has already given. So they're referring to teachings the Buddha has already given. I was surprised to find that the translator of this particular edition, Mr. John Powers, he thinks that this sutra appeared in the third or fourth century before the Common Era.

[09:17]

I was surprised to hear how old this is. So it's an old sutra. And the point of the sutra seems to be to harmonize the various teachings the Buddhists have already given with each other, because sometimes they seem to be in contradiction. This chapter that I'm wanting to bring up today is Chapter 9. And the name of the chapter is The Questions of Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva. The Questions of the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion. And in this sutra, when Bodhisattva is asked questions, sometimes the Buddha says,

[10:31]

not every time, but it says, after the Bodhisattva asks the question, the Buddha says, Bodhisattva, your thought, virtuously arisen, is good. It is You are involved in asking this question in order to benefit many beings, to bring happiness to many beings, out of sympathy for this world, for the sake of the welfare, benefit and happiness of beings, including gods, humans. Your intention in questioning the Tathagata about the subject is good. Therefore, Bodhisattva, listen well and I will respond to your questions." So these bodhisattvas actually already know the answer.

[11:42]

They're asking the question in order to benefit many beings. And so when I think of asking questions, when I think of bodhisattvas asking questions, I often think of another sutra. The bodhisattva asked a question. But before the bodhisattva asked the question, we are told what the bodhisattva was thinking about before they asked the question. So this is what this bodhisattva was thinking as she was about to ask the question. So then this bodhisattva's name is Dhridhamati, which I think means something like firm intelligence.

[12:53]

So then the bodhisattva Dhridhamati in the presence of the great thought, I would like to ask the Tathagata a question, which would be such as to protect the lineage of the Buddhas, the lineage of the Dharma, and the lineage of the... So, I can't help but I have to stop here and think, you know, how wonderful it is if you ask a question, if you have a question, to ask that question in order to protect the lineage of the Buddhas. Or another way to put it is, understand that asking questions is part

[13:59]

protecting the lineage of the Buddhists and protecting the lineage of the Dharma and protecting the lineage of the community. This is part of our practice, asking questions. It's part of our... If you want to promote the life of the community and the truth and the awakening, asking questions is one of our exercise programs. So this bodhisattva wants to ask a question which will protect and will obscure and eclipse the dwellings of all deadening psychic processes and will confound proud people. Thus those who have not yet planted good roots will plant good roots immediately by virtue of asking this question. Those who have already planted good roots Those who have not yet aroused the thoughts of supreme perfect awakening will arouse that thought of supreme perfect awakening.

[15:09]

I want to ask a question so that those who have already espoused that thought will become irreversible in this. Irreversible bodhisattvas will quickly attain unsurpassed, complete, authentic awakening. Being speculating on objects of meditation and attached to false views will arouse them, eliminating them. Beings attached to inferior teachings will become resolutely attached to the sublime teachings. Those who are resolutely intent on the sublime teachings will experience great joy. before he asked this question. And the Buddha, seeing what he was thinking, said, yeah, go ahead, ask.

[16:15]

And then the Buddha goes into elaborate praise of how he will be able to ask such a question. And then he asks this fabulous question. Here in this chapter 9 of the sutra, revealing the Buddha's deep knowledge, the questioner is Avalokiteshvara, and he's asking the Buddha about something the Buddha has already taught. And so he says to the Buddha, Bhagavan, since there are ten stages, the very joyful, the stainless, the luminous, the radiant, the unconquerable, the presence, the gone beyond, the immovable, and the cloud of Dharma.

[17:23]

How many purities, oh, and there's 11th stage of the Buddha. How many purities and how many limbs are these stages comprised of? So these are the stages which are offered to the world. In the Zen lineage, I don't know of a lot of teachers who have gone into study and teaching about these ten stages explicitly. There may be, but I'm not familiar with. However, I am familiar with from the early days of Zen where a student comes to a teacher and I believe the student is a disciple of the sixth ancestor and I think the teacher is the sixth ancestor.

[18:49]

The student comes to the sixth ancestor and says, how can I practice without falling stages. So there is a concern in the tradition from the early days of not getting stuck or attached So the Bodhisattva's ten stages are also, I literally call ten grounds. But you build stages on ground sometimes. Ground are ten stages. These are in a sense ten stages of not falling into stages. Ten stages of not attaching to the ground we stand on in this life.

[19:57]

Also Zen emphasizes in some sense, you know, that there's no place to go. Just be here. Say there's ten stages of realizing not going anyplace and being still. I wouldn't necessarily bring this up to you except it's in Chapter 9, and I've only got to Chapter 8. So now it's Chapter 9. I do. I'm stuck. I'm trapped in the stage of Chapter 9. In order to get out of this trap, I thought maybe if I talked to you about it, we'd all become free of Chapter 9. But it's rather than Chapter 9. I'm not going to, at this time, if it's all right with you, deal with the four purities and the 11 limbs.

[21:19]

Maybe I'll tell you that. There are four kinds of purity and there are 11 limbs. in relationship to these four, but I don't want to... I have to come back later, if that's all right. May I go on? And I want to go to the section where Avalokiteshvara asked the Buddha the following, Bhagavan, why is the first day joyous? And why are all the other stages up to the Buddha given the names that they're given? Like, for example, Buddha stage or Buddha ground. And then the Buddha gives kind of a simple answer, in a way. The first stage is called the very joyous because through attaining a mind that is of supreme worth,

[22:33]

that is exceptional and that transcends the world, one becomes extremely joyful and extensively joyful. That's why that stage is called extreme or utmost joy. So we're at the first bodhisattva ground and it's called extreme or utmost joy. Why? Because in that ground we have accomplished, we have attained a mind. What mind have we attained?

[23:42]

We've attained the mind of enlightenment. That's the first bodhisattva ground is we've attained that mind. The mind which wishes to attain, surpass complete perfect enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. And in attaining that mind, which is supremely worthwhile and world-transcending, we feel the utmost... That's why it's called supreme joy or utmost joy or extreme joy. And then it goes on to the next name.

[24:58]

The next one's and explains why it's called the stainless. But before going to the next stage, and the reason why it's called the stainless, I thought I might spend a little time here on the ground of the stage of the very joyous. A little time here on the first ground on the Bodhisattva career. Are we on that stage right now?

[26:31]

Are we on the first ground of bodhisattvas? Have we attained and is there utmost supreme joy having arrived at the first stage of the bodhisattvas? I have been for a little while contemplating this issue of, hello, where are you, supremely worthwhile, world-transcending mind?

[27:34]

Are you here? And feeling the glimmering of a response not quite saying yes, even before I hear anything, I feel my body, something in my body responds to the question. And then the question is, is this response to this question joyful? And the answer to that is yes. I am joyful just to contemplate the possibility of being on the first stage of the ten stages. of being somewhere in the name of the wish to live this life to realize supreme Buddhahood in order to help others to live a life of helping others starting now and also being willing to be on the bottom stage

[28:43]

But it's not so bad to be on the bottom stage because the bottom stage is extremely joyful. The next stages are based on the extremely joyful stage. And when limbs deal with what isn't dealt with on the first stage but is dealt with in the second stage, and then what isn't dealt with on the second stage but is dealt on the third stage, So the first stage seems like what we need to deal with is appreciating, look around for, if this greatly worthy world transcending, is that mind, is that spirit alive and well? Although not completely developed, is it here with us now and do we have it being here? And feeling that joy, do we feel inspired to continue to contemplate the presence of this mind of enlightenment and continue the joy of it and use that joy to continue to care for this mind of enlightenment, the bodhisattva's mind of enlightenment.

[30:13]

I've been thinking on behalf for a few days. Again, also on behalf of the book, because I thought maybe it would be good to have something on the whole sutra rather than just the first eight chapters. So I'm trying this out with you. Shall I go on? Tell my story? Would it be okay to open the window? Would it be okay to open the window? Do you have your window open, Gordon, or did you close it? It's open. It's open. Is that okay with you? Can this one be open? How about the door being open a little bit? Would that be okay? Can you handle... Would that be all right, Norbert and Carolyn? Let us know if it's too cold. Maybe the kitchen door could be open, too. Could you open the kitchen door of your own? Huh? No, that one and the kitchen door. Yeah. Can you feel something? Can you feel some oxygen coming into the room?

[31:22]

So while I was thinking about this first ground of extreme joy, I remembered that There's an extensive discussion of this first stage in another Mahayana Sutra called the Flower Adornment Scripture. There's a chapter in the Sutra which is 120 pages long on these stages. So I started looking at at this actually sutra within the sutra about the ten stages and in particular I was looking at stage one. I also just happened to look at stage six while I was at it, which is what is known in Buddhist terminology as a doozy.

[32:35]

So at the beginning of many of my sutras, and also the earlier sutras, where thus I have heard, once the Blessed One was something or other. Journeying or abiding someplace and then tells you who was with the Buddha at that time. Actually, different chapters start like the beginning of a sutra. So this chapter starts like a sutra. It says, Thus I have heard once the Blessed One was sojourning in the heavens of... the control of others' emanations. So this is another teaching which is offered by the Buddha who is at the time of the delivery of this teaching is in a heavenly realm.

[33:54]

And the name of this realm is the Buddha is kind of like doing therapy on people's emanations. That's the name of the of this heaven where he is. And as usual, there's a lot going on there. In this particular case, his perfect enlightenment, the second week, he was in the palace of the king of that heaven. of controlling others' emanations, a shining, radiantly pure treasury of jewels together with the large assembly of bodhisattvas, all of them beyond regression in their thought of enlightenment and bound to become perfectly enlightened in one lifetime, who had come from different worlds to be with the Buddha in this heaven. So there is a story that when the historical Buddha was awakened, he basically stayed around the Tree of Awakening for six weeks.

[35:07]

He did some walking meditation too, but he basically continued to sit there. in extreme joy, but not just extreme joy, but all the other stages, including the Buddha stage. He was embracing all 11 stages there under the Bodhi tree, and he also did walking meditation. And during that time, he also, while sitting there under the tree, he went to his heavenly realms. And according to this story, he went to his heavenly realms, and when he was in one of them, He had many bodhisattvas there with him. So the inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent, you know, running around and walking around in India, and they had this newly awakened Buddha sitting there among them, but nobody knew. But none of the humans walking around in India apparently knew.

[36:13]

For 49 days, nobody discovered the Buddha who had discovered the Buddha. You know that story? Most people would agree with that story. By most people I mean most of the disciples of the tradition would agree that the Buddha sat for 49 days after awakening to enjoy the awakening, clarify and deepen his understanding. not all would agree, according to the Mahayana Sutras, that during that time the Buddha was also teaching during the 49 days. In the historical record of the Buddha Shakyamuni, he sat for 49 days and then after that he got up and started to go among people again and they said, you know, how you doing, Gautama? some of his friends when they saw him. And he said, well, I'm fine.

[37:16]

Anything new? Yes. And they said, what? And he said, I've realized the supreme dharma. I'm a Buddha. And he said it sincerely and calmly. And they didn't tease him because think if he was a sincere guy with him, these people who he ran into. And I said, well, tell us about it. He said, okay. These are people, very advanced yogis that he ran into, and he told them. And what he told them is what we call setting the dharma wheel rolling. And at the end of a talk, which only takes about a minute, maybe two, depending, or it could take longer if you talk really slowly, it could take days, but you could easily read it with your eyes in less than a minute. At the end of the talk, one of the five yogis he was talking to understood the Dharma, saw the Dharma, entered the stream of the Buddha's wisdom.

[38:29]

That's what the historical tradition usually sees at the beginning of his teaching. In this sutra, we're being told that during the 49 days, during the second week, he went to this heavenly realm. Again, once again, the historical record does say that Buddha went to heavenly realms and taught beings in those realms. And there's a second whole early tradition. There's one big section of scriptures which are about his teaching of deities. So he, in the night, generally speaking, Buddha would teach the deities at night when the human monks were asleep. Or anyway, resting in meditation quietly in the box at night. But he himself, in his, while he was resting, while the Buddha was resting, he taught divine beings. They're easier to teach. Because they're, you know, so relaxed. So...

[39:34]

So even in the early so-called Theravada teachings, there are these stories of Buddha teaching them. And then in the next morning, he would tell the humans about what he taught the divines at night. And the humans would write down and would remember. They didn't write it down. They would remember these stories and tell them to each other. But this is a different thing. This is where the Buddha went to teach bodhisattvas, not gods. Well, he's also teaching gods, but he's teaching bodhisattvas, lots of them in this heaven. And then it describes the amazing qualities of these bodhisattvas. They were abiding in the sphere of knowledge of all enlightening beings, the sphere of action of that ceaseless penetration into the entries of the realms of knowledge of all enlightened ones.

[40:47]

They were fueled in showing all feats of power appropriately timed for the development of liberating sentient beings, all sentient beings. Just the kind of bodhisattvas that were there. These were bodhisattvas at the very... from other worlds to meet this Buddha. Yes. Yeah, I'm reading from the flower ornament about the ten grounds of bodhisattvas. And I'm just telling you the kind of the bodhisattvas he's teaching this time. And then after... speaking of the very high level of development of these enlightening beings, these bodhisattvas, then he gives their names. And the first name on the list is Diamond Matrix Bodhisattva. And it turns out that in this particular presentation of the teaching,

[41:54]

All the bodhisattvas that happen to be there are matrix bodhisattvas. For example, there is matrix of radiance and power of splendor of undefiled. There is a matrix of spells supporting the aspirations of all beings, matrix of adornments of the ocean, matrix of majesty of the polar mountain, matrix of purity of all qualities. These kinds of bodhisattvas, matrix of splendor, matrix of compassion, all these bodhisattvas. But one of the bodhisattvas is called Diamond Matrix, and he's the main bodhisattva in this sutra, in this chapter of the sutra. Now I'm reading this to you because I found it to be extremely joyful to read this.

[43:08]

I found this, these words about the extreme joy to be extremely These words help me cozy up to and enjoy this mind of enlightenment. And so the bodhisattva diamond matrix was the leader of all these bodhisattvas, all these matrix bodhisattvas. And at that time, the bodhisattva, by the power of the Buddha, entered the concentration called Light of the Mahayana. light of the great vehicle.

[44:15]

And as soon as he had done so, there appeared to him as many Buddhas as atoms in ten billion Buddha lands from beyond as many worlds as atoms in the ten Buddha lands in each of those ten directions, all of whom were alike diamond matrix. And those Buddhas said, it is good that you have entered this concentration of bodhisattvas, the light of the great vehicle. In this, you are supported by all the Buddhas, numerous as atoms in ten billion Buddha lands beyond worlds, as numerous as atoms in ten billion Buddha lands in the ten directions. And by the power of the ancient vows, of Vairocana Buddha, and it is also the excellence of your virtue and knowledge, so that all bodhisattvas may enter the stages of knowledge of the illuminating power of the inconceivable.

[45:33]

I was drawn to this statement that he entered this leader of the bodhisattvas who are receiving the Buddha's teaching at this time. He entered a concentration, a samadhi, which is called the light of the Mahayana by the Buddha's power. This is a... To me that's an interesting point that when these bodhisattvas enter these Mahayana samadhis, these Mahayana concentrations, they do so by the power of the Buddhas. They don't do it by their own power. They do it by the power of the Buddhas. But the Buddha's power is not something other than our power. Our power, we have power, but our power is other power. It's other power. It depends on others. And when we enter the Mahayana, we're entering because the Buddhas support us to enter them.

[46:46]

And when the Buddhas support us to enter them, we enter them. And then the Buddhas give some more gifts to Diamond Matrix. They give Diamond Matrix physical invincibility, the ability to teach with unhindered presence, pure knowledge, and so on. They give him a lot of stuff. And they also give him a well-arrayed physical, verbal, and mental adornments of all Buddhas. They give him these gifts. So he enters this concentration by the... When all the Buddhas give him these other gifts, they give him a lot of gifts. And so what's the reason for giving him the gifts?

[47:52]

Because his attainment of the reality of this concentration was in accord with its name. In accord with its name, which is the light of Mahayana. And then it gave various other reasons why they gave this to him. They gave all these things to him because of the upshot of his vows. They gave it to him because of his thoroughly pure determination and so on. Then those Buddhas who gave him all these gifts, after he entered the concentration by their power, after he entered the concentration by accepting their power, not as his own, then those Buddhas, by their occult power, extended their... All these Buddhas, quite a few Buddhas, extended their right hands from where they were.

[49:06]

There's one Buddha in this world. This is the Buddha who had just attained enlightenment, second week of his enlightenment. He's in this heaven. But all these other Buddhas are coming too with their right hands and they rub the top of the head of Diamond Matrix. And at that point he arose from the concentration and he started talking. And what did he say? He said, perfectly sure, O blessed offspring of the victorious, the bodhisattvas are the blessed offspring of the victorious. Perfectly sure bodhisattvas are the vow of bodhisattvas. Perfectly sure bodhisattvas is the vow of bodhisattvas.

[50:10]

unadulterated, impossible to see in its entirety, vast as the cosmos, including all eternal, rescuing all beings, wherein alone the blessed enlightened beings enter the stage of knowledge of the past Buddhas, enter the stage of knowledge of the future Buddhas, enter the stage of the knowledge of present. There are ten stages of bodhisattvas that enter into the stage of the knowledge of Buddhas. And what are these ten stages of bodhisattvas that have been and are being explained by Buddhas of the past, present and future? What are these ten stages? Having meditated on them, I will now tell you.

[51:14]

So he entered into the samadhi. He meditated on the Buddhahood and the ten stages. Now he's been given, then he got given a lot of gifts now. And then his head's rubbed. Okay, come on, come on out. Come and talk to the people, all the Buddhas, bring him on. Now he comes out and he starts talking about what he's been meditating on. He's been meditating. on the ten stages, which it is also possible, as far as I can tell, for us to meditate on. So what the story here is, all we've got to do then is, by the power of the Buddha, enter into the samadhi which the Buddhas are going to help us. contemplate these ten, and then the Buddhas will give us a lot of gifts, and then we can come out, and then they'll rub our head, and we'll come out of the Samadhi, and then we'll tell innumerable Bodhisattvas about what we're meditating on. So now, we're on the verge now of... Matrix is going to tell us the ten stages which Avalokiteshvara just brought up in the Samadhi Nirmacana Sutra.

[52:29]

Now we're going to hear it again. This sutra is later. But it's the same thing. Ten stages that bodhisattvas have been, will be, and are practicing. And he's been meditating, so he's going to tell us about those ten stages now. It's like an introduction, what I've been saying. And so, again, I'm thinking about it for myself. I realize that if I follow this pattern, that what I would do would be to... I would receive support from the Buddhists to enter into the meditation on these stages. And then, if I really was concentrated on them for some time, the people who made it possible for me to concentrate on them would then give me lots more gifts.

[53:38]

When the time's right, they would tell me to come out of that concentration and share with people what I'd been meditating on. Now, in order to meditate on that, it might be helpful to read the sutra, which tells about what Diamond Matrix told people about what he'd been meditating on. So that if I go into meditation, then I would also have that teaching to meditate on. And then when I came out of the meditation, I would be able to reenact with the help of the Buddhas, to be able to reenact this. But not just with the help of Buddhas, but with the help of Diamond Matrix, who was helped by the Buddhas, who gave him this teaching and then helped him enter it and then helped him come out of it so that he could help beings.

[54:43]

So that's such a big introduction that we didn't get too far, but I already told you the reason for why it's called Diamond Matrix. I mean, called... But I also want to say, before I stop, and that is that after Diamond Matrix came out of the Samadhi and told people about these ten stages, he stopped. He just told them the names, even why they were called these names. And then the other bodhisattvas noticed that their leader, who had gone into the samadhi and come out and told them the ten names of the stages of the bodhisattva, explained why they were called that or what they were about. And so they kind of said, well, come on, tell us. And to make a long story short, he said, well, you know, it's pretty far out.

[55:54]

These stages are really amazing. And I don't want to confuse you. And I don't want you to get discouraged. And I certainly don't want you to reject the description of these stages. So I'm just going to be quiet. And then we go into the process of, again, helping the bodhisattva feel like okay, it's all right, you can talk about it. They're going to be okay. They're ready for it. So I didn't go through that with you. But I kind of need to. So there it is. That's a start on Chapter 9. a start on the discussion of the ten stages. And so I did tell you a little bit about him.

[57:01]

I just said a little bit, just enough to see if you're ready to go further. And this morning I did think about, I did contemplate spending 10 years, maybe, if I lived that long, 10 years going through this Flower Adornment Scripture. See, this is the Flower Adornment Scripture. This is one of the smaller volumes. This is 500 pages long. It's 1,700 pages in this size print. 1,700 pages. I was thinking, well, 10 years, but actually it would take more than 10 years at the rate we usually go because this one took 10 years. And this is like, this is only about 100 pages. 10, this would take 170 at the rate that I went through this last one.

[58:09]

So do I want to start a project that I probably won't be able to finish? And part of me does. And this morning, I'm going to take a little test case to see if the bodhisattvas that are around here want to go into the wondrous teachings about the bodhisattva path. I can't go far. One person's ready to throw up. Yes? I was wondering if we could suggest a reading. A reading? From a portion of that. Well, you just said it would be nice if you could read. Yeah, well, read this. Well, it's only 120 pages. And the beginning, the first page is only one page.

[59:14]

So read the first page. It's chapter 26. And it's, yeah. In this, yeah, it's chapter 20. It's book 26. This is one rendition of it. It has three volumes. There's another one where it's one volume. 26. And it's 120 pages long. But just read the part about the first stage, the extreme joy stage, if you feel ready for it. Yes? This is the first time I'm truly asking, I'm asking for the experience of what you're offering to us, being what you are. Yeah, so earlier I just said, you know, contemplate the mind which wishes to attain supreme enlightenment for the welfare of all beings.

[60:31]

Just contemplate that. Reflect on those words and see if that mind seems to be somewhere in your heart. And then if so, then living in that mind, is it extremely joyful? Is it supremely joyful? And if so, then you might be interested to learn more about that. And then you could read some of these sutras to aid your contemplation of this first stage. And then there's other stages. to follow, but this first one is so wonderful that one could spend quite a while contemplating the joy of this beginning bodhi mind, which when you first feel it and then take care of that feeling and then feel it again, even though it's not the first time.

[61:33]

Yes? Could you talk a little more, and I think this is going back a little bit, about the Would you say it again? I'm not sure I understood in the preceding chapter what the portion of the insight meditation, what that is, which I think is what you're recommending, that we use this as an object for insight meditation. I don't know if you understood that. You don't understand the previous chapter, chapter 8. So can you study chapter 9 without mastering chapter 8? What do you think? I think you can, but it would probably be better if you'd mastered the whole previous part of the book. Can you help me a little with chapter 8? Can you help me a little bit with what insight meditation would look like?

[62:34]

The little bit I could help you with would be read chapter 8. It's hard. It's hard, yeah. It's hard. Chapter 9 in some sense is easy compared to chapter 8. However, it would be even more easy if you'd mastered chapter 8. But if you just look and read chapter 8 and then you read chapter 9, chapter 9 is in some sense easier. However, if you understood Chapter 8, Chapter 9 easier, it would probably make it more practical because you would be better trained to deal with it. However, at the beginning of Chapter 8, it kind of starts with, The beginning of Chapter 9, because the beginning of Chapter 8, the Bodhisattva Maitreya asked the Buddha about what the practice of this chapter, what it's based on.

[64:02]

So Maitreya, the Bodhisattva Maitreya, asked the Buddha at the beginning of Chapter 8, Bhagavan, abiding in what and depending on what the Bodhisattvas in the great vehicle cultivate, shamatha and vipassana, tranquility and insight. What do they depend on when they're doing the study of these two kinds of meditation, calming and insight? Well, they meditate on this mind we're just talking about. They meditate and depend upon and abide in an unwavering revelation, an unwavering vow to expound the teaching and become supremely and perfectly enlightened. So bodhisattva's wish to be supremely enlightened, for what reason? and help people. That's what bodhisattvas depend on when they're learning what's in Chapter 8.

[65:08]

It's also what they depend on to learn what's on Chapter 7. It's also what they depend on to do everything they do, because they depend on this and this intention to attain enlightenment in order to teach the Dharma, in order to realize and teach the Dharma. And this, what's in chapter 8, is part of what they want to learn in order to fulfill that vow. And chapter 9 is describing what they go through as they evolve So Chapter 9 is describing their... Chapter 8 is describing their course of practice in one way, emphasizing the meditation practice. Chapter 9 is describing their course in another way, describing these ten grounds that they live on, starting with the joy aspect, of this intention which is underlying or abided in when they're doing the other practices.

[66:17]

You said roughly that Chapter 8 is about the kind of effort that we might make, and Chapter 9 is what unfolds. Yes, you could say that, but also chapter 8 is about what unfolds when you're making that kind of effort. So it describes the effort, but it also describes how the effort evolves and what you run into in the process. It's maybe a little... There's a little... There's a slightly different... It's a slightly different... Different type of meditation in chapter 9 than chapter 8. They're both teaching meditation. All these things are meditations. The whole book is a meditation. And the meditation has many different aspects. So this text is a meditation. And it's something we can... in order to learn the Dharma.

[67:23]

Was there another hand there? Yes. So something that's always attracted me is that it's everydayness. Yes. And I always get a little turned off when I start hearing family realms and all these innumerable things and, you know, being coming from other worlds. It's really hard to relate to. And I'm wondering what's, like, why? What's the use in writing, in setting these sutras? What's the use? Well, the use it's intended for is the same use as Zen's ordinariness. What Zen's ordinariness is for. Is it to help people? Suffering people? Is that what it's for? How is it helpful to be in such an abstract world?

[68:29]

No. No, but I'm just saying, is your understanding that the simplicity of Zen which attracted you, that the purpose of that was... Is that your understanding what the purpose of... You said, what is it for, right? You're asking what is it for? Well, I'm asking what's the benefit of it. Yeah, so then what's the benefit of the simple for you? You say you're attracted to something about Zen. Do you I feel like I can see it and understand the meaning of it. I would agree that part of the benefit of the teaching is that you can relate to it. The whole benefit is that it benefits suffering people. Not just that they can relate to it, because you can relate to it by hating it. That's a relationship to it.

[69:32]

What maybe you mean by relate to it is you can accept it? I just feel like I understand it more fully if it's not so abstract. So you can understand it more fully if it's not abstract. That's right. But, yeah, that's what I said. Yeah. And it sounds like that's okay with you, that you can understand it fully. That's all right with you, right? I feel like I want to understand. Yeah, you want to understand it fully. And so you like teachings that you can understand fully because you like to understand fully. Yeah. We all like that. So here's a teaching that's not like that. Here's a teaching where you can really feel that you don't understand it fully. And you're wondering, is the purpose of this teaching similar to the teaching which I can understand fully?

[70:40]

Say yes, it's the same intention. The teachings which you feel like you have a better chance or can understand fully, the purpose of those, I think, is to benefit you and other beings. That's what they're offered for. These are offered for the same reason, but The simple teachings are not offered with so much caution because it's feelings like, well, people won't freak out about the simple teachings. They'll just say, oh, yeah, fine, no problem. Like, be kind. Like something a child could say, oh, okay. Or don't do evil. Right? Are you saying this abstraction is caution? That's what I said. Is that after... So the Buddha was with these bodhisattvas.

[71:41]

You can call it abstract, but you could also call it metaphorical or fantastic or mythological. There are other names you could give to it. But in the story... The leader of the bodhisattvas who are with the Buddha is not supposed to be historical. Even though they're talking about the historical Buddha, this is not really the historical Buddha. This is a cosmic Buddha relating to the historical Buddha. Because the cosmic doesn't have no problem with history. History sometimes has, but Cosmic Buddha is perfectly willing to play with history and relate to the historical Shakyamuni. So this historical Shakyamuni in this sutra and this sutra is teaching these bodhisattvas in celestial realms. It is the same as when the Buddha appears in the world in India and walks around in the dust of northern India.

[72:47]

Same purpose, to help beings. And one of the things about Zen, which I think is rightly said, is that Zen makes the point, for example, the chapter that Dogen wrote is called Everyday Affairs, one of his chapters. It's called Gabbyo, Everyday Affairs. And it starts out by saying... and teachings of the words and phrases of the Buddhas are everyday affairs. But literally, it's our everyday rice and tea. So, Buddha is talking, you know. When Buddhas talk, it's like

[73:48]

For them, that's like eating or breathing or eating rice. It's no big deal for a Buddha to talk, even when a Buddha is talking about things that ordinary people do not talk about. Buddhas say things which ordinary people don't talk about. The Buddha said things which nobody else said in the history of the world. The Buddha spoke. But for the Buddha to say that is like saying, good morning, or is it almost lunchtime? Like actually eating the rice and drinking the tea. When a Buddha eats, the Buddha is still the Buddha, right? When the Buddha is eating, the Buddha is showing you how a Buddha eats. And you say, and I would say too, it's like, well, I almost understand that when I see a Buddha eating. I kind of get it. This is the way a Buddha eats. I often tell the story of when I, in the first few months of practicing with Suzuki Roshi, we're having a orioki form at Zen Center before it was on Page Street.

[75:05]

when I was still in Japantown, and he had his bowl, and he was kind of tilted away from him about 45 degrees, and his rice actually, he sort of formed it, I think it was white rice, and he sort of formed it into like a ball, a little ball in his bowl, and he was tilting his bowl away from him, and I thought, that rice bowl, that rice ball might roll out of his bowl onto the floor. Can you see the picture? He's got the bowl and it's tilting like this and his right ball is in there. I thought it might just fall out of the bowl. And I thought, well, no, it probably won't because he's a Zen master and he knows how to control rice balls. And the ball rolled out of his bowl just like you ordinarily would expect if you've got a ball in a bowl and you tilt At a certain point, the ball will roll out of the bowl because of gravity, and it rolled out of his bowl, and then he did this kind of miraculous thing.

[76:08]

He reached down and picked the bowl up with his hand. I picked the ball up, the rice ball up with his hand, and he put it back in the bowl. So, you know, that was not that abstract, right? This is my teacher. Teaching me. He's teaching me. I didn't think, oh, this isn't, you know, when's the real Zen practice going to start? At that time, I didn't think, when are we going to have the Dharma? So, you know, if you have a Buddha, and a Buddha's sitting, maybe the Buddha's sitting. So when they're eating, they're teaching you the Dharma. And when they finish eating, and they say, let's have work period. then they're teaching too. And then when they say, in this sutra, Diamond Matrix does blah-de-blah, that's what people oftentimes in China thought Buddha's talk like. That they would tell people about, you know, the stages of a bodhisattva and meditation and all that, right?

[77:14]

Which they do. But for them, it's like eating rice. It's just what they do. a mechanic, you know, working on the machine. That's what he does. And if he's a Buddha, then that's, he's teaching mechanics. And for him, it's ordinary, it's his life. Whatever he does or whatever she does, it's their daily life. So when they're eating, they're teaching. But when they're teaching, even when it's like something which is very, just take away very, which is inconceivable, which is totally beyond your grasp and always will be, that this is like they're having rice. You get to see them have rice in the form of them talking this way. And you get to ask questions for the welfare of all beings and the happiness and benefit of all beings. You get to ask questions about what their intention is. This book is about what is the Buddha's intention.

[78:15]

The Bodhisattvas are asking, what's your intention when you're teaching? however does not ask him what is his intention when he's eating rice. But there's a lot of Zen stories where students say to the teacher, what's your intention eating that rice? What's your intention crossing the road? What's your intention putting on the robe? What's your intention taking a bath? What's your intention when you take a bath? But also what's your intention when you're teaching the Flower Adornment Scripture or the Lotus Sutra. What's your intention? People are asking those questions. That's exactly what's asked in this question. These great boys and girls are asking the Buddha, what's your intention when you're teaching? But it's also, it's the same as asking a Buddha, what's your intention when you have lunch? You're asking, what are you trying to tell us here by what you're doing?

[79:15]

Now, many Zen stories, people do ask, what's your intention when the person's eating rice? And what the person does is he keeps eating rice. Or then, you know, the story at the end of the Genjo Kon, fanning himself. What's the teacher doing? What's the Buddha doing? The Buddha's fanning himself. But what's your intention fanning yourself? Why do you have to do that? Because the wind reaches everywhere and its nature is permanent. So why do you fan yourself? And the teacher says, well, you understand that if you don't understand the meaning of reaching everywhere, well, what is it? He keeps fanning himself. So when Buddhists are fanning themselves, they're showing the Dharma, which maybe you get. Maybe you get it. [...] but maybe you don't.

[80:21]

So that maybe when you're fanning yourself, you don't get it. So, then the Buddhas just keep eating and fanning, and eventually you'll get that when you're eating and you're fanning, that could be the Buddha's activity. If you mean it, if you vow that you're fanning, you're drinking, you want your activity to be the Buddha's activity. But when Buddhas are teaching like in these sutras, which they do, It's just, they're just having rice. It's totally unabstract. They're actually just talking. They're just emanating a light which reaches the entire cosmos. That's their daily life. They're just reaching out across the cosmos and touching people on the head to call them out of their samadhi to help. That's just what they do. It's just their thing, you know. And if it's abstract, why don't you make it concrete?

[81:25]

Why don't you make every action you do like that? When you do your work, make your work like that. Make your work the daily life of Buddhists. Because Buddha's teaching is daily life. Buddhist teaching is their daily life. So let's make our daily life the Buddha's teaching. And Buddhas, as we may be not too surprised to hear, are quite mindful. So they can remember that what they're doing is being a Buddha. I think Buddhas can remember that. What am I doing here? I'm going to help people. That's why I'm talking. And that's why Dhritamati didn't, not Dhritamati, that's why Dharma Matrix did not want to speak because he thought people would have a response. Like, what are you talking about? So, he needed a lot of encouragement to talk like this.

[82:30]

And then with all that encouragement, it was like everyday affair for him to start talking then. But he needed all that help. So, So I tried to make it palatable, but apparently it was difficult for you to accept something that was your throats, your digestive system was challenged. And I apologize if I've made you nauseous or nauseated. In the set and setting sort of accounted for, initially you said that as you were reading this material on joy that you felt great joy. Did I hear you say that? In the last few days, yeah. And then as you were telling the story about Suzuki Roshi and the rice balls, I felt

[83:39]

Suddenly this great joy, a great joy. Yes. Is there a relationship between these joys? If we just take set and setting into account, it's not the same set and setting as... Oh, it is the same set and setting. It's just that most people in that little zendo on Bush Street in San Francisco did not understand that the room was full of bodhisattvas. They didn't see the bodhisattvas, but they were there. And when you concentrate on daily life and you learn how to be present with it, you open to that there are innumerable beneficent forces living with us all the time. And then a rice ball rolling out of a bowl is like, it's the teaching of the Buddhas.

[84:44]

So, in some sense, these pictures are not to be taken literally, and they're not to be taken non-literally. Or they're supposed to be, they should be taken as non-literal and literal. The point is to open people's minds to the Buddha mind, and if you're open to the Buddha mind, the beginning of that is extremely joyful. That's all. Yes? I'd like to try to say two or three things that are coming up together and see if that makes sense to you. Okay, here we go. Here we go. So, you were reading this thing about the joyful ground, joyful mind.

[85:47]

Yes. And then what it said, what came right after that was, for those who transcended the world. I think that's how the sentence went after that. What I remember was that the joyful mind is those who have attained the mind that transcends the world, attained the mind which is supremely worthwhile. Are you leaving, Andrew? Work in the kitchen. Thank you. I was thinking that you were speaking about your joy as you walked around thinking, am I joyful? As you were contemplating this passage. And it made me think of that teaching you've been offering about intimacy and really staying close to, am I joyful?

[86:49]

Is this the joyful mind? And I was making a connection as a way of the joy that of the mind that transcends the world. But you have to understand your world and where the joy is, or when you're closed or when you're open to joy. Yes. That's why I bring it together, to study intimacy and joy, the ground of joy. Well, the world-transcending mind is the mind to fully engage with all suffering beings in the world. So it's the mind which is devoted to all suffering beings. That mind is world-transcending. The mind which is only willing to deal with some suffering beings, or perhaps not very many at all, that mind is a worldly, a trapped worldly mind. But the mind which actually wishes to be devoted to all suffering beings and wishes to develop supreme skill in order to fulfill that, that transcends the world.

[87:56]

And by transcending the world, you work better for the welfare of the world. But transcending doesn't mean that you leave it. It means just that you can. But then you give up the attainment of being free of the world. Yeah. With all sentient beings is world transcending. Is supremely worthwhile. Is very joyful. That's the first stage of the bodhisattva path. Is vowing to be and feeling the willingness and openness to met with everybody and everything. no matter how obnoxious, including that the next moment you may feel like, oh, I can't do it. It's too much. But there was a moment there of like, well, maybe I should be friends with everybody, even so-and-so.

[89:04]

Yeah. And then at that point, when you're actually open to that possibility, it's extremely joyful, according to the Bodhisattva path. But I feel like we've been going on for a really long time. And... I'm taking it. May our intention be graced.

[89:31]

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