The mountains and rivers of the immediate present are the manifestation of the path of the ancient Buddhas abiding together in their phenomenal expression in their Dharma position. they have culminated the qualities of thorough exhaustiveness because they are events prior to the empty aeon, they are the livelihood of the present. Because they are the self before the emergence of subtle signs, they are the penetrating liberation of immediate actuality.

[01:14]

Now you may not be interested in this, but by the height and breadth of the qualities of the mountains, the virtues of riding clouds is always mastered from the mountains. And the subtle work of following the wind as a rule, penetrates through to liberation from the mountains. Again, you may not be interested in that either. but there is someone who is as interested in that as in anything else.

[02:36]

What does it mean to you or the mountains and rivers or the mountains and waters to abide together in their dharma position? What does that mean in terms of your life? Am I speaking loudly enough? It doesn't mean anything to me right now. It's like a box. It's like a box? I feel the concept's like a box. You feel like you're in a box? As I cannot really understand, I say it's just a box concept.

[03:51]

Yes. It's difficult to make a transportation of these into what is happening here. Yes. What is going on here is for me different of what are you saying now. I cannot make a relationship. But what I say is a box. Maybe there is something inside I have to... I see. You see? Yes. Excuse me, but as I said last week, it's hard to get the news from poetry. It's in a box. But we need it. We need the news from poetry. Yes? When you say abiding together, that brings up for me that this quality of being perfect just as you are and needing improvement for both happening at the same time.

[05:00]

That's what the together means? Do you hear what she said? No? When she heard abiding together, she thought that what was there was on one side that you're perfect just as you are. That's together with you need to work for improvement. Those two are together. Yes? Everything perfect just as it is with no obstruction. Everything perfect just as it is with no obstruction. Everything perfect just as it is with no obstruction. The bones and the waters are actually touching.

[06:03]

Are they touching? They're touching. Well, any comments on that? Are the mountains and waters actually touching? Is it like manifest sitting on top of unmanifest potential? Is it like manifest sitting on top of unmanifest? It's kind of like that. Mm-hmm. The mountains are the expression of the water. Or the mountains are the celebration of the water. You said that the mountains hover, they hover over. They hover or they, like a hovercraft, they move over the water. And actually they can, Dogenzenji says, they can actually bounce up and take off way off the water, but they always bounce off the water, they don't bounce off nothing, they bounce off this water into their flights.

[07:17]

Did you say the mountains were off the water? The mountains and the waters are the self before the emergence of subtle signs, which is the same as the self after you forget it. It's the self before you learn about it and after you've forgotten it. What about that? My experience is that it's then not an expression of anything. It's not an expression of anything. It's just an expression. Yeah. It's just an expression. It's just expression. Because if you give it a name, you call it mountain, and you give it a subtle sign. The mountains and the waters together are the self before the emergence of science.

[08:46]

The mountains and waters together, in a sense, are what? the whole shooting match. Master Dokai said, a stone woman gives birth, Master Dokai said to the congregation, he was talking to somebody, the stone woman gives birth to a child in the night. The green mountains are forever walking. Really?

[09:49]

Well, I made some connection with my mind. What happened? Well, stone meant a very moment of night. And the green mountains are forever walking with the spirit of life. what about this stone woman giving birth a barren woman giving birth in the dark when nobody's there to wash right there's just birth and nobody's watching do you agree What does this mean in terms of daily life for a stone woman to give birth? Supernatural? It's not normal for a barren woman to give birth.

[10:52]

Right. What? It's not thinkable. Right. Nobody can think of it. Nobody can watch it. But he's actually saying that's how it happens. A female stone? A female stone is even more unthinkable. A female stone giving birth is even more unthinkable. A female stone giving birth is even more unthinkable. A female stone giving birth is even more unthinkable. And I just think of the... The unconscious, which is now zero, logical, linear, rational mind. And if that takes place, and probable that can take place, I'd watch and then see, or in the mind of the unconsciously conceivable.

[11:59]

Okay. Is it night to darkness? Probably so. Another translation is youthful folly. Youth. The stone woman, the barren woman gives birth in the presence of youth. Sort of redundant. Inside, when we are sitting, there are so many things coming up. We realize conflict in life, suffering, and difficulty for living, and so many miserable circumstances in our lives.

[13:17]

I am born in something from death. Can something be brought from this stone woman giving life to somebody? It's illogical. So when I say, is it Buddha, is that voice not yours now, but others that bother me? Is that Dharma? Is it perfect life? Is this Sangha perfect life? Not now in silence, but that Sangha we know in 34 hours. Is that perfect life? I say that's a stone woman. You say that is the stone woman. The stone woman. Right. That is a stone woman.

[14:22]

And that's what, and that, all that gives birth to us. You are born. You're the child. Do you understand what the stone woman is that gives birth to you? I was thinking about things happening in your mind or inside of you and not being conscious of them, but they're happening, whether you're conscious of them or not.

[15:46]

And I... when she said that that brought a real smile to my heart because it was a real hopeful kind of thing that sort of despite myself I can learn and I can grow and that when you were talking about the mountains and the rivers and what does that kind of break to mind for me it's like a reminder that that change is possible and that being a way that I want to be, which I'm not always sure what that is, but is out there and that it's there. It's like the mountain and the river are reminded that it's there and kind of an affirmation that it's there. And the idea of the soul being is that conscious thing that happens sort of despite yourself that I think is a very... It's a very optimistic, hopeful.

[16:48]

It gives me a lot of hope. Can you tell from this where your responsibility is? What your effort could be in this? Well, certainly, one part of it would be trying to put myself in... in a position kind of like exposing myself to the mountains and to the river and to the Stonewall and that kind of thing. And that's probably for me why I am here is that, like this man said, I'm not sure I understand on a real conscious level, a lot of things that are said, a lot of things that you say don't make sense to me at all in the intellectual world. Being here and presenting myself to the mountains and to the rivers is one of the things that I could do.

[17:55]

To present yourself and expose yourself, do you say? Is there any more than that? Is there any more we need to do besides presenting ourselves and exposing ourselves? right but I mean is there anything in order to culminate the qualities of thorough exhaustiveness is there anything more you need to do than present yourself and expose yourself push how do you push so can you push right now like you're in labor What is pushing, by the way? Is it you that's pushing? Right. But in your dharma position, is there any pushing necessary?

[19:01]

Huh? No? So how do you get in the dharma position? Are you already there? You don't move. You settle on yourself. Right? So, how do we settle on ourselves? Sitting. How do we sit? Still. Still. Is there anything more than that? There's breathing. There's breathing. No. No. Our physical bodies have to breathe. But, I mean, the baby that would be born in a stone woman wasn't breathing yet. I mean, the breathing is done by a mother. So the act of what's going on is not even our breathing is accomplishing it. Who is really accomplishing all this?

[20:07]

All of us. Mm-hmm. Mountains and rivers are accomplishing all this. Everything? Is that everything? Is that everything? It's everything plus something. What is it? I don't know. Master, Master Doukai, Fuyo Doukai Dayosho, The one who said this thing about the stone woman giving birth to a child at night. The green mountains are walking all the time. He studied with Tosu Gisei Dayocho. And when he first met him, he said, the sayings of the Buddhas and ancestors are everyday affairs.

[21:24]

Is there anything else to help people? Or is there anything the Buddhas and ancestors taught besides present everyday activity? He asked that question. Is there anything the Buddhism ancestors taught besides present everyday activity? Is my talking right now everyday activity? No? You're in the front row, so you can say no, even though they said yes. That's good. It's beginning to seem everyday, but it has... Right. When you first got here, it didn't seem everyday activity. But for me, it's getting that way for you. Yeah. So he asked that question.

[22:31]

Now, in addition to this everyday activity we're doing here, in addition to this, okay, is there anything else that the Buddha's taught in order to help people? He asked. Yeah, you can answer the question, right? The answer is the question, but first of all, do you understand the question? Everyday activity in a place like this is people get up and talk about mountains walking, right? That's everyday activity. That's because in this place we're very concerned that people get the stuff that poetry gives. We're not just giving information here. We're also giving poetry, and we're saying, please get the stuff out of this poetry, because we need it.

[23:32]

It seems that everyday activity is a thing that we do. Every day activity is the things we do. That's right. So around here we have a certain type of everyday activity, right? That's what we have. We have a schedule. Not every place has a schedule like this one, but we have a schedule. This is our everyday activity. Yes? Did the Buddha's ancestors teach anything other than everyday activity? In addition to everyday activity, like Buddha's... Huh? Well, that's everyday activity for a Buddha, right? For a Buddha, at the time that he taught the Four Noble Truths, that was just like everyday activity.

[24:32]

But it was something very new to the people that he taught it. So would that be outside of everyday activity? Yeah. If they weren't necessarily doing that, otherwise he wouldn't have teaching that. But at a place like this, or in a Buddhist community, people are suffering, right? So Buddhas are trying to help them. So people ask questions and they say stuff like, well, first of all, there seems to be some suffering here. It's like people are suffering, so the Buddha says, well, you're suffering. I see you're suffering. This is kind of like... Maybe in a Buddhist community that's quite normal just to notice that people are suffering. And they're suffering because there's some nourishment maybe they need in order to heal themselves from certain suffering. But you may say the Four Noble Truths are something in addition to the everyday activities of Buddhas and ancestors. Then you would say maybe that the Four Noble Truths are something in addition to the everyday activity of Buddhas.

[25:39]

Is that what you're saying? No, not to them it wouldn't be, but to the people who heard the Four Noble Truths. Right. But from their point of view, it's just their ordinary activity, right? Yeah. I don't know. He says the teaching of the Buddhist ancestors is everyday activity. Is there anything else? So he's saying, is there anything else other than, isn't that what... He's saying, there's two ways to say it. One way he's saying is, he's saying, I think that the teaching that the Buddhist ancestors do, that's just everyday activity. Is there anything more than, do they do anything more than that? Is there something secret to that? Is there something secret? Or the other way to put it is, Do the Buddhas teach anything besides simple presence of everyday activity? Is there something else they teach? That's everyday activity for Buddhas. Is there something about compassion that's not everyday activity? These guys are asking. Okay, now... What it tells you?

[26:47]

Tosugisei said... He said, you tell me. For Buddhism ancestors? Well, what do you think? That's everyday activity for them. That's their regular work. Every day. And they don't just do it in meditation halls or in lecture halls or in ceremony halls. They do it, of course, in the kitchen, on the walk, in the toilet.

[27:54]

That's really their everyday activity. Sometimes they're in the toilet, sometimes they're not, but they're always working on realizing emptiness. Because the form and emptiness dancing together, that's their way. That's really their way. It's that particular interaction between form and emptiness. And form is the way we realize emptiness. So that's their major work. So he's asking, is there anything more than that? And then Tosugi-sei says, what do you think? You tell me. And then Tosugi-sei goes on to say, does the emperor... in his own realm depend on the authority of the ancient kings what's his name, Dokai was about to answer, and Tosu hit him with his whisk, his fly whisk, sort of flipped his fly whisk at him.

[29:18]

And then he said, the minute you intended to come here, you already deserved a beating. At this, Dokai attained enlightenment. And then he bowed to the teacher and started to walk away. As he was walking away, Tosu said, have you What point have you reached? Or have you already reached a place that's beyond doubt? And Dokai didn't even look back at him. Oh, I screwed it up, sorry.

[30:26]

He bowed and started to walk away. And Tosu said, come here a minute. And he didn't even turn around. Then he said, have you reached the realm beyond doubt? And he covered his ears. So the practice here is that if you see a Buddha, cover your eyes. If a Buddha's words are coming towards you, cover your ears. It's the same, it's an expression of the understanding of the question, does the emperor in his or her own realm depend on the authority of the ancient kings?

[31:35]

As soon as you go to the Buddha, you deserve a beating. What about going to a teacher? They attain enlightenment in their interaction with the teacher, definitely. Never alone. Always in a relationship. Always two Buddhas together. That's the only time it ever happens is when two are together. It can be more than two, too, but anyway. A Buddha and a Buddha talking is when it happens. Now, sometimes they wave or snap a finger or something. That's still talk. That's still in the realm of words. Two Buddhas talking, that's when it happens.

[32:42]

So you need to go... You need to go to the Buddha. First of all, you present yourself and you expose yourself. Then you go to the Buddha. But when you go to the Buddha, you don't go to the Buddha. And when you go to the Buddha, when the Buddha talks to you, you don't let the Buddha's words get in your ears. What do you think it means? Right. But you have to go to the Buddha. The teacher's not outside you, but you have to go to the teacher. Okay, so later, Fuyo Gokai, he became the head cook. And Tosu came to him and said, do you, what do you say, do you cook, I guess?

[33:47]

Oh, he said, it's not easy to manage the affairs of the kitchen. And Dokai said, I don't presume so. And then he said, and then Tosu said, do you boil the gruel and steam the rice? And Dokai said, the helpers wash the rice and light the fire. The workers boil the gruel and steam the rice. And Tosu said to Dokai, well, what do you do? And he says, the teacher has already set me free or let me go free. Does that make sense, why I said that at that time?

[34:53]

No. Well, I thought it did. Do you work in some area at Green Gulch? Do you do the work there? Or do the elves do the work? If you're the head cook, do you cook the food? Or do the workers and the helpers cook the food? Who cooks the food? And if they do all the work, what do you do? The planning. And what's the plan? Pardon? Yeah, that's the plan. The plan is stay out of their way. But where do you stay out of their way? You stay out of their way in the kitchen, right next to them, right.

[35:58]

You provide them with everything they need. What do they need? They need you. Everybody needs you to express yourself and to expose yourself. If there's nobody there to what? Well, you don't have... Well, look at the story, okay? The story is you're asking. If these are Buddhas here and ancestors here, is there anything more than our daily life through which we teach? Do we have some to which we help? Do we have some special activity in addition to our daily life by which we help people?

[37:04]

Is there something else we do here? But if you ask that question, what are you doing at that time? Are you thinking somebody else is going to tell you whether there's something more to be done? You've gone to the teacher now, asking the teacher, is there something more than this? I think that the way the Buddhist ancestors teach is just by their presence in daily life. Is there anything more than that? Who are you asking at that time? Yourself. Right. Right. And so he says, do you depend, in your own realm, do you depend on some other authority than yourself? So if you understand that, then if the teacher asks you some question, cover your ears. But he wasn't done yet, he had to go work in the kitchen after that.

[38:17]

He stayed around after that and practiced in the kitchen. And so again the teacher asks him, well, who's cooking, do you cook the meals? And he says who cooks the meals. What does he do? He just gets out of the way. But he's there. His being out of the way is who he is. It's very difficult to get out of the way right in the middle of the kitchen. He's allowing everyone to manifest themselves and that's what? For this person that allows everybody to manifest themselves. That's who he is. That's who he is after he forgets himself. Is there another slide to this where, using that analogy, where sometimes the Tenzo has to assert themselves?

[39:19]

I mean, there's times when things are rolling along quite harmoniously. And predictably, there are times when things are not rolling along harmoniously. It seems to be really predictable, too. Yes. So part of this whole process also seems to be of sometimes getting in the way, which is not really powerful, but which is more to the realm of activity in standout rather than all the harmonious peaks. Are you saying that sometimes it's necessary to enact disharmony? No, not to enact disharmony, but disharmony will naturally arise.

[40:21]

Yes. And so that seems to be helpful. That sometimes happens. But other times the way harmony happens is that you think it's disharmony. Right. And then how do you get out of the way of that? Yes, it's getting out of the way, and we don't want to caricature that either. Yeah. There's times that naturally arise when you get in the way at a timely time. Get out of the way at a time. So you get in the way. How do you get in the way? Is there some helpful way to get in the way? That's the daily life of Buddhism's ancestors, isn't it? Be in the what? Be there. Not necessarily in the what. That makes sense, doesn't it?

[41:22]

There's an image. that's it. You leave the window right in the room and it flies in and it can't find its way out. It's banging against the window towards the light thinking the clear window is the way out. And you open the window and help it find its way out. That's the energy that I got while thinking of Being in the kitchen, watching people maybe engage in what seems to be disharmony, but it's just another happening. Manifestation of what's happening. Maybe you need some guidance. Maybe someone to point at them. It's not really the way. It's just unhealthy. Right. Exactly. Sometimes somebody plays the devil's advocate, not the devil's advocate exactly, but from the point of view of Buddhas and the devil's advocates and points to the way.

[42:37]

The person who points to the way should be beaten, but that sometimes is quite helpful to point to the way. And in fact, that's part of the daily life of Buddhas, is that they point to the way, even though that's not actually proper to do that. because they're not actually pointing to the Way. I mean, if they were pointing to the Way, that would not be proper, but they pretend they point at something and say, that's the Way. And that allows kind of like the window to open over here in the periphery. By getting people to look at the Way The way is here, right? By pointing over here and getting people to look over here, the way comes in over here. In other words, by pointing to something close to the way, the way sneaks in in the periphery.

[43:41]

If you point directly at the way, they can't get it. Like the fly flying into what it thinks is the window. If you pull the window to the side a little bit, that doesn't work very well, but anyway, By pointing directly at something, the way sneaks in. People are distracted from the way and therefore it comes in. It seems like that's why humor is so valuable. Because it's a way of presenting very serious things without presenting very serious things. That's right. That's one of the helpful things about it. Something about the covering the eyes and covering the ears notion that makes me feel very stuck.

[44:51]

Sort of like philosophically, I understand this little series of talkings that we just heard. Yes. But in reality, not reality, in everyday activity, it's here at least you have nothing to do. Like, I understand about not listening, and yet, how do you not not? You don't listen. No, no, no. It's not that you don't listen. You definitely listen. You go into the situation and you listen. Like we say, you know. You listen. Okay? You know, we say, in the herd, there will be just the herd. Okay? That's listening.

[45:55]

That's good listening. So if I cover my ears, how am I going to be able to do that? You only cover your ears to Buddha's words. It gets fuzzy then. At that point in the talking, it all gets fuzzy. What I noticed is that over his ears, he had just gotten something through his ears. It got all the way in. Pardon? I'm afraid so.

[47:05]

I think so. If you're a mirror, what are you looking at now? Yeah, I know, but you said that you were afraid, and I wondered why you answered that. Well, because what I'm mirroring is a flopped lecture. That means like frustrated lecture. Unsuccessful. Why do I think so? You mean she's the only problem?

[48:15]

You're putting a mouth, sorry. Because we understood something? Instead of seeing the moon, we are looking at her finger. I love her. [...] Maybe it's that you're seeing the moon and not paying attention to my finger. So that's why I think it's a flop. It's a flop.

[49:27]

I don't know.

[49:53]

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