Okay, the control issue. Control issue, yes. The first time I came here was six years ago this, I think this month, and I was almost 59 years old, so it took me a while to find it, even though I live over the side of the hill. It took you 59 years. Yeah, to find this place here. But so if you go to six years forward that you can do the math, I'll be... 65 in a few weeks, and that's the traditional retirement age. And due to a variety of circumstances, such as the fact that I had just been laid off from my chosen profession when I came here six years ago, and then I somehow got back into it, and I've been back at it now for five years, kind of sent me behind on my plans to do the next thing, which was, you know, the next thing, which is to serve. And, you know, I had this notion of it's time to get rid of that business thing and do the next thing.

[01:06]

And now that I've gotten there, the next thing is getting kind of vague. And there's this control like, well, I have to control all this. I have to decide exactly when I'm going to leave my work. And I have to do this. And so I'm having a lot of issues around what the heck is control? I mean, what the heck is, oh, OK. I think you're probably reading between the lines. What do I actually do next? It's kind of vague. What do you really want to do? Well, I have to answer that question myself. That's right. It's like I never talk about control. This is the kind of questions one wrestles with in their 20s. What am I going to do for a living? I didn't say what you can do with your living. I said the question I gave to you was what do you want to do?

[02:07]

What's the most important thing for you now? That's my question. That's the answer. And I ask that question, and I have been asking that question, what's most important? And usually the same answer comes up. To serve all beings on the path of peace. It's that kind of answer. It keeps coming up. That's what I want to do. So then what do you want to do? And then when you find out what it is, we can go to work. But it's hard to go to work before you know what you really want to do. Some of you know who have worked extended periods. If you spend all your time working, you don't have a heck of a lot of time to examine what it is you want to do next.

[03:10]

Exactly. So start now. Don't wait. Please. Please start asking now. You can do that before you retire. I'm doing it before I retire. Yeah, obviously. We're kind of of the same generation, so it's kind of like, okay, you're the right guy to ask the question. Go to work now. Thank you. I think I actually got that answer from your earlier piece, but I just want to confirm. Thank you. Anything else? Yes, please, want to come? Well, I was thinking that We're all faced with a dilemma.

[04:10]

I don't know the way out of the dilemma, really. But the dilemma is not a question of control. It's a question of whether we're going to save the children or not. We are a teacher in a classroom. Someone comes in with a machine gun, is going to kill the children. How will we save them? And if the only way to save them is kill the man with the machine gun, then that is the compassionate thing to do, as far as I can see. But then that also presents us with a big dilemma. What's the dilemma? Well, because the dilemma is that we have to take somebody's life in order to save other lives.

[05:18]

I see. And that is not what we would like to do. We don't want to kill to protect. To protect, but we are... then forced into the situation if we don't, then we are responsible for the death of the children. So that's the dilemma. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else? My opinion?

[06:23]

About what? Well, I was... I just listened to him. That was my response. Do you have some response? Well, I think that what will save the children and protect the children is for me to practice not killing. That's how children will be saved. That's my opinion. That's not my opinion. That's my belief. That's my faith. I'm betting on not killing rather than killing. And so I do not want to walk the path of killing as the path to protect people.

[07:23]

I don't think the path of killing has been demonstrated as successful at protecting people. There's been lots of killing. Have you noticed? So there's lots of killing going on. And then people are responding to the killing by killing. And then it's followed by more killing. And then the response to the killing is killing. So the killing and killing and killing seem to just be going on. So I'm betting on more not killing as the path to protect the children. and even to protect old people. I would like to protect old people, medium-age people, and young people. And I'm betting that the way to protect them is to practice not killing. And I don't know what not killing looks like. The path of peace has no

[08:26]

fixed sign. I don't know what peace looks like. I don't know what non-killing looks like. But I'm not saying, yeah, I'm trying to have the courage in this life, the courage and the the commitment and the courage and the patience and the generosity to not kill even if things are really out of control in a way that's really, really painful and scary. I'm trying to be more and more convinced that I will not kill. I'm trying to get more and more settled in not being willing to kill, even if someone would say to me, if you don't kill them, I'll kill you.

[09:38]

I would like to say, well, I hear you. And accept the consequences for not killing somebody at the threat that I'll be killed. That's what I would like to do. That would be my contribution to protecting the children. And also, I want to be respectful of the people who think that killing protects people. I don't agree that killing protects people, but I want to respect the people who think the way to protect people is to kill. But still, it might be really difficult if someone was going to kill a bunch of people. It might be really difficult if I knew that I could press a button and this person would not kill them, but that person would die.

[10:49]

It would be very difficult for me to not press the button. But I would like to not press the button. Well, actually, I take that back. I would just say, I'll say it this way. If somehow it looked like these people were going to be killed, and somebody told me, if you press that button, they won't be killed. However, this person will be killed. I'm not saying I want to not press the button or to press the button. I would just say, I want to not know what to do at that time. and not know what to do in terms of pressing that button or not. I would like to practice compassion at that moment and see what the response is. That's what I'd like to do. I would like to practice not killing in that situation.

[11:53]

I don't know what not killing would look like. So I want to practice not killing and I don't know what it looks like and I hope and I want to learn how to do that. That's where I'm trying to be mindful. But I don't know what it would look like. And it's possible, I'm open to the possibility that it might be what this gentleman said that this person would be killed in order to protect these people. And I think I heard a story that the Dalai Lama was asked, if someone was going to, I don't know what, blow up a million people, and you could stop the person, but it would involve killing the person, what would you do? And I think he said, I would stop the person by killing the person.

[12:55]

And in that case, that might be not killing. I don't know. So can a person die and have it not be killing? The person's about to harm others and harm himself. Is it possible that his death would not be killing? So there's the, I think I heard somebody say, the philosophical problem, how does it go? I think it's called the trolley car problem. You know that one? You're on a trolley car and you've got this thing, you can change what track it goes on, and you're coming to a place where if you go this way, the trolley will go off a cliff or something.

[14:00]

If you let the trolley go that way, everybody on the trolley car, all the passengers will die. If you go this way, there's a person standing on the track. And if you go this way, the people will survive, but the person on the track will get killed. And a lot of people have trouble deciding which way to go. And then there's one more example of if there's a really big person on the trolley, you could put them in front of the trolley and stop the trolley from going off the cliff. And almost no one chooses that. But a lot of people choose go this way that will run over that person And some people choose to go over the cliff, but almost nobody chooses to push the big person on the trolley off onto the track to stop the trolley.

[15:06]

So this is an example that a lot of philosophers are suffering with, trying to figure out which is the true way, which is the beneficial path, which is, you know, So is that enough? Yes. I looked at that question by trying to imagine two different scenarios, one in which the person could be healed, or among the persons healed. There is myself. And the second scenario in which the person could be healed is the person dearest to me, my own. And when I, instead of looking at anonymous people that can get healed or not in that scenario we were playing before, but I depict myself or the dearest person in my life among the ones that get healed.

[16:16]

the answer I give myself is for sure not a compassionate one towards the person that is trying to heal. And I find it very interesting that by changing the victims, my answer changes. So I was wondering, what's your opinion of that? Do you have any thoughts? You could say my opinion is, which I said earlier, my opinion is it would really be good to become a great martial artist. Because when you really get good at martial arts, you can protect the people from harm, whether you know them or not. You can protect them from harm in such a way that you don't have to kill the other person. You can disarm them, flip them in the air, set them down, and wake them up.

[17:18]

So in order to have a compassionate response to violence, we need to train ourselves to interact with it in such a way that in the intimacy there will be a compassionate response. And don't wait to learn that until somebody's attacking somebody you care about. Learn it now, so that when someone is attacked, that you cannot, you know, that you must protect, that you know how to interact with the attacker in such a way as to protect the attacker from attacking, to show the attacker the way of not attack, but in a way even that doesn't hurt them. And there are, in our tradition, there are many examples of skilled compassion practicers who have met people who are attacking and interacted with them in such a way that they were disarmed in the face of the compassion.

[18:33]

But if you don't know how to do that by practicing it over and over, then some situations arise and you feel like, I can't be compassionate in this case because you're not practiced at it. You don't know how to wake up the compassion in the person who is about to be violent. Sometimes you can do it. You know? And then that's encouraging. Sometimes you can't. And then that makes me feel like, well, I need to learn more. Okay? No? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes, and yes, you're nearby.

[19:41]

Want to come up? You want to stay there? Well, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're supporting that. We're giving aid to these countries and these populations without stopping them from changing their schooling. It's so blatant. So it's so political. Yeah. So that's the case, that people are getting education, which seems to be supporting seems to be part of people hating.

[20:47]

There's a book with my name on it called Being Upright, and in that book there's a story about a man who was trained from childhood to hate everybody except for the people that were like him. So he got that training and he became a leader of the Ku Klux Klan. He was like one of the Grand Dragons. But he was trained to hate anybody who was different from his little type. So we have that going on here too. a Jewish family moved to his town and they moved there actually to be in a less hateful environment. And he found out they were there and he started to attack them. Not physically, but he didn't burn their house down, but he called them and threatened them with violence and harm.

[21:57]

And he was trained to do that. And he thought that was right. And at first they were, like, defensive. But then the thought arose in their minds, let's practice loving our enemy. They heard about a different teaching, which was not kill your enemy, don't hate people who are different from you, but love them. And this was a Jewish family. It could have been a Christian family. It could have been a Buddhist family. And it could have been a Muslim family. It could have been a Sufi. So they started to practice love towards this person. And they practiced it and practiced it. And when they first offered him something, he said, no. And then he said, but thank you. And they offered again and again and again. And finally, he stopped hating them.

[23:06]

And he quit the Klan and made a public apology to Native Americans, African Americans, Catholics, Jews, Asians, all the people he hated. He apologized to publicly from that position in the Klan and quit the Klan and converted to Judaism. And he was disabled. so these Jewish people were helping him which is part of the way they started to be kind to him was to offer him assistance which he at first refused but after a while he accepted it and they were helping him with his shopping and other things but as he as he became more disabled he moved in with them and they took care of him at the end of his life and he said I was taught to hate and I did hate and these people love me and they love me and I never saw love like that before and I couldn't keep hating."

[24:16]

So that's the story. If we can practice love and practice love, I don't know how long it will take to change the practices of human beings which teach cruelty to little girls, you know, no education, which is cruelty to people who are different. I don't know how long it will take our love to wake people up to compassion, but that's the proposal. It's a terrible picture of cruelty and hatred. How can we come back with compassion to that? I guess we need to be convinced that that's the path we want to walk and also not be rigid about what that would look like. I think a lot of people if they heard what I said today they would think I was just insane or anyway naive.

[25:22]

So like I say it says in the news more aggressive response to the terrorist group. But what does more aggressive mean? Does more aggressive mean more violent? Or does more aggressive mean more compassionate, more aggressively compassionate? I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens. And I want to practice compassion with what happens, which means to be careful not to look down on anybody. Not to think, oh, I'm practicing compassion and they're practicing violence and I'm above them. That's not careful. That's violent. So how can we not look down on people who hate us when we don't hate them? How can we love someone who hates us and not look down on them? Like my granddaughter, you know, sometimes she hates me

[26:28]

and I don't hate her. But I don't have to look down on her. She hates me if she can't watch another TV show. But I can look down on her, like, you know, she's not so very intelligent that she hates me. I'm more intelligent. I'm great and compassionate. Because when she hates me, I just love her. Which is true, I do. When she hates me, I'm successful. But if I think I'm better than her, I'm unsuccessful. And if I think I'm better than terrorists, I'm unsuccessful. Even though I don't want them to do what they're doing, I wish they would stop, and I'd like to help them stop, I've got to be careful not to think I'm better than them. I'm better than those people. I went to visit one of my relatives one time who was a practitioner of being of a Jehovah's Witness, and they told me about their religion and they told me all the good things they wanted to do and I thought, great.

[27:41]

And then they started talking about the evil people. And I said, just a second now, who are the evil people? Are they somebody other than us? And it turned out they were. The evil people weren't us. So again, I don't want to think that the evil people, the violent people, are not me. I think that will lead to peace. For me not to think that the evil people are somebody other than me. But in consciousness, that's the difficulty about consciousness, it looks sometimes like somebody else is being cruel and I'm not. It looks like that sometimes. That's difficult. I'm like a good guy, and they're like really cruel and impatient and disrespectful. It looks like that unconsciousness sometimes.

[28:45]

We're the good guys and they're the bad guys. It looks like that. So it's challenging to go, whoa, okay. Do I believe this? That I'm the good guy and they're the bad guys? They tell me that they believe that they're the good guys and I'm the bad guy. Do I believe? And if I do, I kind of say, sorry, I confess I fell for the... I'm deluded. I'm deluded. I think I'm the good guy and he's the bad guy. That's the way I think. I am basically deluded. Sorry. It's possible that the thought might come up in my mind that I'm better than somebody. That can happen. But do I believe it? And if I do, I say, I'm sorry. I don't want to believe that I'm better than anybody.

[29:46]

I don't want to believe that I'm better than terrorists. I don't want to believe that story. And I also don't want to believe the story that I'm worse than terrorists. or that I'm better than the police, or I'm better than the politicians, or that I'm better than Democrats, or that I'm better than Republicans. I don't want to believe that. But those thoughts can arise. Have you ever seen any of those thoughts like that? I'm better than Donald Trump. I don't want to believe that. I don't want to believe that thought. Years ago, when I would talk this way, you know, about being compassionate to everybody, people said, that's great, except not George Bush. And I said, well, sorry, him too. Yeah.

[30:50]

When he's president, now that he's not president, maybe you can say, okay, now I can... Now I can be compassionate to him. But when he's president, no way. Well, again, some people think I'm crazy talking this way. And that's my gift, to be the way I am and to be considered crazy and naive. And I don't know what, mentally retarded? Silly? Lots of names can be made up. about me when I talk, whatever way I talk. I found that no matter how I am, some people don't like it. And I'm kind of like, okay. I accept that's the way it is. Anything else? Yes and yes.

[31:54]

For me, at least, thinking through and then the Q&A about this particular subject of violence, What's valuable to me is how you interrogate it. And I think one of the lessons I'm taking from your commentary is that you're committed to interrogating this and to not knowing. And I think that's a really valuable point. That's what I take from it. On the other hand, the gentleman in the back, so he's the guy that spoke first, about the children in the classroom, I think I understand what he's saying. Unfortunately, there is a time when the men in the village have to take up arms. And maybe you wouldn't because you're the priest of the village and you're the local bishop and you can't do that. But there are times, and you've read about it in the Middle East, when people come through a village and just start slaughtering families. And I think, I don't know what I would do, whether I would sit next to you and try to be your student, but I also, the men of the village are expected to defend the women and children.

[33:04]

And I don't think it's... Well, I don't know. I think it's worth interrogating all of these things. The men are expected to protect the women and children? And are the women expected to protect the children? Absolutely. Yeah. But it's in traditional societies. Aside from expectations. Do any of you expect me to protect people? No. I mean, not with an assault rifle, but with your moral and ethical teachings, yes. Yeah. I... Whether I'm expected to or not, I want to protect all beings. I do want to do that. Whether I'm expected to or not, I want to do that. Now, we have a story in Zen about the... We have a difficult story in Zen about a monastery where there was a teacher named Nanchuan. And the monks were arguing over a cat. Like, you know... I think it was like, who owned the cat?

[34:07]

I think maybe it was the argument. But it might have been, is it a good cat or a bad cat? Anyway, they're having an argument and the community was getting upset about the cat. And Nan Xuan took a knife and said, if anyone can say a good word, the cat will remain in one piece. If... if no one can say a good word, otherwise the cat will be cut, and no one could say a word. And the cat was cut, according to the story. And the question is, what would you do if you were there? Would you kill Nanchuan? Would you kill the teacher who was going to say, the cat will be cut? What would you do? What would the martial artist do? Say a good word, yeah. The martial artist would say, the martial artist might say, excuse me, Nanchuan, could I borrow your knife for a little while?

[35:14]

I need to do a little carving. And Nanchuan might have said, good word. You also can't blame people that don't have these skills. You can say I can't blame. You can say to me, it's OK if you just told me I can't blame. You told me that? You did. You said you can't blame. So I hear you said that. And actually, I could blame. I could blame pretty much anybody for anything. However, yeah, right. But I don't want to blame anybody for anything. And you're telling me I could. No, you said I can't. Anyway, yeah, anyway, yeah, just words. But I'm just saying, I do not want to blame anybody for anything. I don't want to think that way. But if I do think that way, if I do think like, I'm going to blame you for sitting on that seat. If I think that way, okay, you are blamed for sitting there.

[36:17]

If I think that way, I want to be kind to myself, but I don't actually blame you for anything. But if it arises in my mind ever, I will say, sorry, I blamed you like I could blame you for being Brian. I blame you for being Brian. But I really don't think you're the only one who made Brian, so I'm not going to blame you. You're responsible for being Brian, but I am too. If it weren't for me, you wouldn't be here. So I don't blame you, I don't blame me, but we're both responsible. So I'm trying to not lean into blame. Those are the bad guys. Those are the evil ones. I'm blaming the evil on them. I'm trying not to do that. If I do, there's reasons for that, and I try to be kind to myself if I wind up blaming people. Who are you going to blame for the problems in the world? The terrorists? The education system? The Republicans? The Democrats? The rich people?

[37:18]

Drug addiction? The drug dealers? Who are you going to blame for all these problems? Help yourself. Blame wherever you want. But the Buddha's teaching is not blaming people. The Buddha's teaching is, if there's a problem, practice compassion. Don't get into blaming. If some blaming is going on, practice compassion. If no blaming is going on, practice compassion. If we don't know who to blame, practice compassion. If people think they do know... Isn't that simple? Is it difficult? Is it easy to blame? Yeah. Blame just rolls off us. Blame, blame, blame, blame, blame. Really easy. Like little children know how to blame. You did that. I did that. You don't have to teach them that. They have a mind that's perfectly set up for blaming. What you have to teach them is to practice compassion.

[38:28]

That's what the Buddhas are here for, is to teach them to practice compassion in this swirling, scary, changing, confusing karmic consciousness. We have this wonderful opportunity and teaching compassion protects the children. So if there's violence and we need a good word, let's give a good word. Here's another story. Excuse me. It's from a Woody Allen movie. So Woody Allen, in this movie, he's a bank robber. You know that movie? So Woody Allen is a bank robber. And you can imagine Woody Allen as a bank robber. So he robs the bank, but he's not very successful. He's kind of a clumsy bank robber.

[39:30]

And so he gets caught and sent to a prison. And then in the prison, he meets the prison guards who have lots of weapons. And the head guard, meeting the new prisoner, says, basically, you know, if you follow the rules of prison and you behave properly, me and my team won't hurt you. But if you don't behave, guess what's going to happen to you? See these big guys and these weapons? You don't want that to happen to you, do you? And Woody Allen raises his hand. May I ask a question? And the guard says, what? He says, do you think it's all right to pet on a first date? And the guard goes, uh... I heard that Woody Allen grew up in New York and he learned to defend himself with humor.

[40:53]

Humor is a great martial art. Sometimes you can make a violent person start chuckling and put down their weapons. Here's another story. A guy's, a big Japanese man gets on a bus in Japan, a trolley car, and he's drunk. And he's walking down the aisle and scaring everybody on the trolley car. And everybody's frightened. And a friend of mine is sitting on the back of the trolley. And he's a martial artist. and he's in Japan studying martial arts. He's sitting in the back, and he thinks, when that guy comes to me, I'm going to take care of him. So he's going towards my friend, and then the trolley car stops, and an old man gets, a little old man gets on the trolley, and he sees this big, violent, dangerous man, and he says,

[42:08]

What happened to you, sweetheart? What's the matter? And the guy just starts crying. Says, my wife just died. I want to learn that, to meet a big violent person and be able to say, what happened? What's the matter? Why are you so upset? What harm has come to you? And have them realize somebody loves him. That's what I want to learn. And it's not easy. Even my friend who was in martial arts was going to teach him a lesson. But he got a lesson from that little old martial artist. What's his martial art? Compassion. Compassion for who? Big violent guy.

[43:11]

Sometimes I see trucks driving around the world. Big trucks. And sometimes in the big truck there's a big man. And I see them as my grandson. as a frightened little boy who has a huge body and a huge truck, and who's really afraid of anybody scratching his truck. Just like my grandson would be afraid of somebody scratching his truck. So if they get aggressive, my little grandson gets aggressive too when he's afraid. So if I remember this is my grandson, I can say, what's the matter, sweetheart? But it's hard to remember to say that when somebody is big and angry. But from the point of view of the Buddha, they're little kids.

[44:17]

They're little scared kids. We have so many little frightened children in this world. And some of them weigh hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they have big trucks and big guns. Who can love them into peace? Do you want to love them into peace without trying to control them? I do. Is it easy? No. Is it scary? Yes. I remember a talk when someone asked you a question about a response to the Nazis or something like that. What would you do in the face of this people? And I remember you told the story about the three Billy Goats crap.

[45:18]

And one of the points I took from your story was that it's kind of important to know which Billy Goat you are. in terms of confronting people or certain advanced. It takes a while sometimes to come to a place where you can't beat the martial artist or the little old man who's developed that enough to respond effectively. And sometimes it's good to know where you are in that. Yeah, that's it. I feel like we're, you know, it's hard for us as a society, it's hard for me to see how we can come to agree that when our leaders are very skillful in terms of either articulating or reporting. Some are better than others, but in terms of leadership and response,

[46:24]

it would be nice if the people leading societies were the most advanced that could respond strongly and effectively with compassion. So I just wondered what your thoughts are about that in terms of what we can have next morning. Well, I can kind of... agree with wouldn't it be nice if the leaders of the world were great, compassionate and wise people. I think that would be great. But when I hear about somebody maybe being not skillful, then the issue is what's the skillful response to the appearance of unskillfulness? So if I see someone who seems to be unskillful, how can I not look down on them?

[47:33]

For me, that's a repeatedly arising thing. If someone seems to be doing something unskillful, how can I not put myself above them and look down on them? Because the mind naturally arises above, and they're the evil person. So that's basically evil is one word, another word is unskillful. So we have a lot of unskillfulness. People are trying to, like a lot of people are trying to protect their children. And the way they try to protect their children is to buy bigger and more powerful guns, some people. Other people try to protect their children by moving someplace where there's no guns. Everybody's trying to protect their children, if they have children. Yeah, yeah. And I think the way to help protect your children is to control them. So basically I'm trying to, like you said, which building goat am I?

[48:37]

And that's a good thing to consider. But the other dimension of your question is, what do we do when we see unskillfulness? Do we think that they're unskillful and I'm skillful? We often do, right? They're unskillful, I'm skillful. Yeah, it's more subtle to see how I'm unskillful looking at somebody else who's unskillful. But generally the teaching, you know, sometimes the teaching or generally the teaching is if you see unskillful people, look at yourself. turn the arrow around if you see unskillfulness. If you see skillfulness, learn it. If you see somebody being skillful, try to learn that. But if you see unskillfulness, look at yourself. So which Billy Goat am I?

[49:42]

I wonder. The story sort of runs out because in the traditional story, it resolves when the biggest Billy Doe whoops the troll. So it's force. It even knocks the troll, maybe kills him, because he's the biggest and strongest. So in the traditional story, Yeah, but in the earlier part of the story, the first two Billy ghosts, the little ones, they managed to interact with the violent person in a way to kind of distract him from his violence.

[50:46]

They give him two chances. So everybody know the story? The name of the story is sometimes called The Three Billy Goats, or The Three Billy Goats Gruff. So they lived in a grassy meadow, and they ate grass for a living. And one day they ate all the grass and they looked over and they saw that there was another meadow on the other side of a deep river gully. And there was a bridge going over. So they thought they would go over to get the grass. And I don't remember exactly, but maybe they came over the edge and they saw this big river, a monster called a troll.

[51:56]

So the monster was controlling the use of the bridge. He was a controller, a control freak. And so I don't remember if they made this plan, but anyway, the littlest one came and he said, who is walking on my bridge? I'm going to come up there and eat you. And the littlest one went first and said, it's me, the littlest billy goat gruff. But you probably don't want me. I'm so little. I have a brother who's bigger than me who would be a much better opportunity for you. But if you look at the story, he's disarming. He's finding a way to temporarily disarm the troll. So it was kind of good.

[52:58]

He gets to cross. The troll doesn't do a bad thing, doesn't do a violent thing. It's a little bit of a trick, but he gives it. Then the next one comes and says, well, yeah, you can come up here and eat me, but actually I have a bigger brother who will be a much better meal for you. So you probably don't want to waste your time on me. So he lets him go. But the third brother is... not so kind in a way. He says, who's that on my bridge? He said, well, I'm the biggest billy goat. And he said, well, I'm going to come up there and eat you. And he says, somehow he doesn't lie and say, well, I have a bigger billy goat brother, but he doesn't. He could have said that. That would kind of be untrue. That might have been OK. Or he could have said, I don't think it would be good for your health to come up here and try to eat me. I'm too big. I've been misrepresented.

[54:01]

I actually wouldn't be a good meal either. I'm sorry, but... Anyway, he just said, come on up and try. And the troll came up and he... But the first two brothers actually kind of like, they interacted with the violence in a way that didn't lead to violence. They did the best they could anyway. Okay. And I'm wondering what kind of a billy goat I am. Because I don't just want to postpone and derail the attempt to be cruel. I would like to melt the wish. I would like to melt the wish in myself to try to get something in life. i would like to transform myself into somebody who gives up trying to get something into somebody who practices giving that's what i would like to learn i'd like to be that kind of a billy goat and if i was a girl i would like to be that kind of a nanny goat

[55:14]

They weren't kind. You have to say that? Do you have to say that? Great! And also, do you want to say? That they weren't kind? Do you want to say? I learned fast. Yes, that was fast. Sometimes you can learn really fast. And sometimes it's slow. But either way, there's a possibility that we can learn to be great, compassionate beings who are not better than anybody else. In consciousness, it just popped in my head that the founder of Zen Center, who we call Suzuki Roshi, he had a lot of moral authority and very little moral superiority.

[56:35]

He was really good at not being a superior moral person. And when you are that way, that you're not superior, like my granddaughter is often superior to me. morally, she thinks. And her big brother used to think also that he was morally superior to me. But Suzuki Roshi really didn't look like he thought he was better than these students he had. He loved us. And he knew we had lots to learn, but he didn't seem to think he was better than us. He more seemed like he just really wanted to practice with us, even though we had a lot to learn. And so he had a lot of moral authority. And I think that the Buddha also had a lot of moral authority and didn't think he was better than unenlightened people.

[57:42]

And so a lot of people became enlightened by that presence. Equality, yeah. Yeah. So compassion, practicing compassion starts with being generous, but it kind of ends with being equal. That we're all in this together, and nobody in this whole huge thing is better than anybody else. Nobody's above us, and we're not above anybody. We're in this together. And we are together with people who are capable of thinking that they're better than us. And we also can think we're better than some of the people we're equal to. Or if I look at my thinking, say, in a situation where there might be somebody called a perpetrator and somebody called a victim, if I have my practice there, I'm offering compassion equally to what that person is.

[58:55]

Yeah, and I'm equal to the perpetrator and the, what do you call the other person? the receiver of the perpetration, I'm equal to both of them. I want to learn to remember that and realize I'm equal to all of you. And I want to give love equally, but it looks different to different people. Like the way you give love to an adult is not the way you give love to a child. So it's different, but it's not like I'm giving a little bit to this person and a lot to that person. It's just that I give this to this person and I give this to that person. But it's not more or less. Yeah? I think your discourse is superior to the discourse of ISIS, but I don't think you're better than that.

[59:58]

Not that. It's excellent. Is that enough for today?

[60:08]

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