This weekend at Green Gulch we have had a little retreat and during this time I have been reminiscing about the founder of Zen Center, Shinryu Suzuki Roshi, who among other things was my teacher. I don't possess him, he's not mine.

[02:29]

But I have to say, my teacher. And when I said it I didn't expect to feel what I felt and what I feel when I say those words.

[04:36]

to meet someone and be able to trust him completely. Completely. Completely. And not because he was perfect. Perfect. I really don't know how it came to be that I could trust him and that all I had to do was look at him

[05:43]

and listen to him and talk with him and sit with him and bow with him. I don't know how I came to be so lucky that that's all I needed. But that's the way it was. And if I remember that, or not necessarily even remember it but just feel that, then when I sit now and walk now and listen now, it's the same. Last night a young student asked me how it was to lose my teacher, for my teacher to

[07:08]

leave me when I was still young. Maybe before I was mature. I can't remember what I said in response to the question but thinking about it now,

[08:11]

I just feel grateful that I had a little time. Just a little time. Like that. Which means now that I'm really grateful that I have a little time. Like this. And if I just say, now, today, if I just say,

[09:29]

my teacher, and I'm present and listen to myself and feel those words, my teacher is here again with me. What was my teacher's teaching? His teaching was that he was, at that time, himself.

[10:30]

He could be who he was, moment by moment, and he could trust us, his students, to be ourselves, in each moment, wholeheartedly, without shrinking back or getting ahead of ourselves. He could allow us and show us how to take full responsibility for being alive and having a heart and having a mind and having a body.

[11:33]

He looked at many people, and they looked back in his face, and they thought he said, yes, you can be you, not only that, but I appreciate it, and I really hope that you can do that fully. He named me, he ordained me as a priest, and on the morning of the ordination ceremony, he said to me, the name I'm giving you is Tenshin Zenki, Tenshin means Reb is Reb.

[12:49]

When he said that, I thought, he really understands me, that's all there is to it. And then he said, can you believe it, then he said, and there's no other way for you, and people may have trouble with that. He didn't tell me what Zenki meant. Not at that time, but I studied and I've learned a little bit about what Zenki means. Zenki means the whole works, Tenshin means you are you,

[14:13]

and the fact that you are you is the whole works. It is everything, and it is everything working through you. You are the entire universe working as, appearing as, manifesting as, realizing itself as your life. You include in being who you are everything, and everything you meet is your life. That's his teaching, that's what he taught us, that's what he practiced, that's what he gave us.

[15:25]

He gave us what we already have, and he took away what we don't have. But he took it away graciously, he didn't forcibly take away what we don't have. He gently said, you cannot be anybody else but yourself, you have no alternative. But he didn't beat on us, he just showed us that he was willing to give up being anybody else but himself. So in a way I miss him, but I mainly miss him when I'm not doing his practice.

[16:57]

When I do his practice, which is all of our practice, he's pounding in my heart, he's alive in every part of my body. Just the way he would want it, rather than me holding on to him as somebody other than me, and forever being a little baby. But I'm also forever a little baby. He said, our Zazen practice is just to sit upright in each moment without expecting anything.

[18:05]

This is enlightenment. The Buddha said, all I teach, Shakyamuni Buddha said, all I teach is suffering and the end of suffering. All I teach is suffering, and that suffering has an arising or a cause, suffering has an end, and there is a way to be free of suffering. That's all I teach. That's all Suzuki Roshi taught to, really. There are other things to teach, but this is extracurricular activity for Buddhas. Buddhas can also teach golf.

[19:15]

But at that time they're on leave, so to speak. Suzuki Roshi taught us to not just practice Zazen, not just practice sitting, and being ourselves when we're feeling good, but also to sit, or stand, or walk, and be ourselves when we aren't feeling so good. To be present, just as we're happening.

[20:28]

And to meet face-to-face with our pleasure, with our joy, and our suffering. To meet it, and to learn how to be intimate with it. And when we're intimate with our suffering, we are free of it. He said, just like when we cross our legs in this formal Zazen posture, after a while we can't tell which leg's on top, and which is on the bottom. When we're intimate with suffering, we can't tell who's suffering, and who's suffering. We can't separate ourselves anymore, and we're free of it.

[21:52]

When I first sat down, maybe you noticed how long it took me to get seated. That's partly because I have all these robes on. But it's also because I was crossing my legs. And it takes a long time to get my legs crossed in the proper position, so that I won't hurt them. So I made quite an effort, which you saw, to get myself into a position where I could really be present in my body. It takes some work sometimes to arrive where you already are. It's funny, but it does, sometimes.

[23:07]

Not always, but in this case it did. And in some sense I felt like, gee, these people are waiting, maybe I shouldn't go through all this trouble to arrive here. Part of me felt a little defiant, like, no, I am going to arrive. I am going to get to be here. But also part of me wants to say to you, please, you take time like this too. You are allowed to go through what it takes to be present with yourself. To keep adjusting and adapting to your circumstances until finally you're here and now with what's happening. Completely. And people may say, hurry up, get situated.

[24:09]

But they don't really mean not to get situated. Even if they think they mean that, they don't. Everyone wants to really see, will you please be completely yourself, even though I'm telling you not to. Zen is not always difficult. It's not always difficult to be yourself. But sometimes it is. And usually, somehow there's something about us people, humans,

[25:21]

that usually we first understand when we're trying to face up to and meet and be intimate with difficulty and suffering rather than with joy. It's hard to tell when you're completely settled and present, when you're in a state of great pleasure. Because if you're not settled, when you're in a state of pleasure, it feels pretty pleasant. But if you're not settled, when you're in great difficulty and pain, it feels really painful. But when you finally completely settle in a state of great pain, you know you're settled because the pain drops away. Not that it even changes at all, but it drops away because nobody's holding on to it anymore.

[26:31]

Somebody cares more about honestly being who she is than being in pain or pleasure. This is enlightenment realized. And this is the way you are all the time. One of Suzuki Roshi's teachers, his second main teacher, was named Kishizawa Ion. And I've told stories about Kishizawa Ion a little bit this weekend. And Kishizawa Ion's teacher was a very formidable Zen master named Nishiyari Boksan.

[27:33]

Which, you know, just happens to mean Sandalwood Mountain existing in the West. So Nishiyari Boksan was a pretty strict Zen master. And Kishizawa Roshi, of course he's just a young monk, but anyway, Kishizawa Roshi was a high school teacher before he went to study with Boksan. And he went to study with Boksan and his life was like a kid always trying to keep up with a parent who takes big steps. Always in an undignified and desperate way trying to keep up with the teacher. And one exaggerated characterization of their life together was that everything that Ion, Kishizawa Ion did, Boksan always scolded him.

[28:55]

And so that's the way it was. He had a hard time with his teacher. I didn't have a hard time with Suzuki Roshi. Matter of fact, one time I said to him, how come I don't have a hard time with you? And he said, well, you will. But he died before I did. So now I have a hard time with him. Now my hard time with him is to do the practice. But Ion's teacher lived to be 90, so he got many years of suffering with his teacher. So I agreed to stop at 11, so I have 10 minutes.

[30:10]

So Suzuki Roshi's teacher Ion was having a hard time with his teacher Boksan. And one day Boksan gave a talk about a document that we use in our school. A diagram, which in a simple five different sections kind of describes the whole process of Buddhist practice. And one part of the diagram, it says, first phrase, iron person lives here. And when Boksan said iron person, Ion burst into tears. And tears streamed down his face for a long time.

[31:27]

Iron sounds kind of hard, but it's not really hard. It's actually very soft, this iron person. This iron person is a person who no matter what's happening, no matter whatever will happen, she faces it. And doesn't run away, doesn't run away, doesn't try to make it different, but faces what's happening with total composure and warmth and kindness and non-duality, realizing that whatever's happening is her life. This is the iron person who has unshakable faith that she is herself, no more, no less, forever.

[32:37]

And that what she is, is always changing, but it's never any different than what's happening now. She has unshakable faith in this fact, and that this fact is a liberation from suffering. And this iron person lives here. And this is the first phrase, which means there's no previous phrase, and there's no next phrase, there's just this phrase, just this iron person, right here, now. This is a, you know, very basic, very simple, very whatever, [...] teaching about our practice of just sitting,

[33:39]

which is conveyed from generation to generation, intimately between teacher and student. And in all his difficulty, when he heard that phrase, and he heard his teacher talking about it, he finally settled. And tears of joys, tears of joys, came streaming down his face, and he decided he wanted to ask his teacher to calligraph in Chinese characters that expression, iron man, iron person, iron woman. Iron man lives here for himself, as a commemoration of finally being willing

[34:44]

to be this person, just this person. But he was still afraid to ask his teacher, because his teacher always scolded him, no matter what he did. But it wasn't that he was afraid, really. He just didn't want to have to strain his teacher's scolding powers. He was no longer afraid of his teacher, really. So he knew this old gentleman who his teacher liked very much. Whenever this gentleman came, his teacher always was very friendly and smiled. No matter what the old guy did, his teacher was always happy to see him. So it is possible that some of these very stern Zen masters are totally friendly to some people all the time. Just to their beloved disciples,

[35:46]

are they sometimes a little tough, or sometimes always a little tough. Anyway, so he asked this old gentleman to do it, and first the old gentleman said, no, [...] I don't want to do it. But he begged him, and finally the man did it. And he brought Bok San some sake and some rice cakes, or some kind of tea cakes, which he liked very much. And he said, would you write something for me, do some calligraphy for me? And Bok San said, sure, anything for you. And he said, would you write, Iron Man lives here. And Bok San said, this is not for you, is it? And the old man said, no. He said, it's from my disciple Ian, isn't it?

[36:47]

And the old man said, yes. And then the tough old Zen master burst into tears, and they streamed on his face. He said, now I see that my disciple finally understands my teaching. He is ripe. And he's our uncle and grand-uncle. We have such wonderful relatives. They aren't directly our grandfather and great-grandfather. They're more uncles,

[37:50]

because Kishizawa Ian Roshi was Suzuki Roshi's second teacher. But it's the same spirit of the practice called just wholeheartedly, exactly, be in each moment what is happening. This is exactly Buddha. This is the end of suffering. And if we do this practice, we will see our deceased teachers. We will see Suzuki Roshi. We will see his teachers all the way back to Shakyamuni. We'll see all their faces right now if we practice this way. We can realize this practice

[38:55]

because we are already this way. It's not some stretch. It's just to give up all stretching, give up all alternatives, and just be present completely now. In all the complexity and dynamic flux of our intense, vivid, spontaneously arising precious life. I have 30 seconds. And you have 30 seconds.

[40:02]

We have 30 seconds. And we are so grateful to have this little time with you. Thank you, Suzuki Roshi, for blessing us all

[41:12]

with your life and practice. May our intention equally penetrate every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way. It looks like people are going to kind of like keep dribbling in for a while, so maybe we should just start. Does anybody have any comments or questions? Yes. It's not really a question, it's just a comment. Regarding my own personal experience

[42:13]

over the last couple of weeks, I really got to see a lot more intimacy and craziness of my own mind regarding desire and craving. I was caught up in some desires and craving and I saw how my mind was affected and my emotions and it just ruins my peace, my inner peace. And I was trying to my best to make an effort to be with it, you know, to see what's there and just to experience it fully. And I noticed the more intimate I became with it, it started to dissipate somewhat. But I had to be willing to be there with it

[43:13]

and to sit with it. And it's a little frightening because how much suffering, how much suffering it caused from not having my desire and expectations fulfilled. And on one level I'm happy to see it so clearly. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Do with what? Well, desires are always going to be there and cravings. Yes. When you said, I don't know what I'm going to do with it, what did you mean by it? I'll cancel that. Okay. Okay. Please sit up here. Congratulations, that's good work.

[44:19]

I hope you can follow through all the way in that kind of presence with your with what's coming up with what's happening. To become so intimate with it that there's no duality between you and your experience anymore. Until it's just your experience and nobody to hold on to it. And then I, there's a place up in front here if you'd like to sit up here. Next to Elmer. There's a seat right here if anybody wants to sit right here. Jisha has given it up. Yes.

[45:21]

I'm not a ignorant question possibly. Go ahead. In the story that you told the student who rather than approach the teacher with the possibility of being reproached went through Yes. Knowing not very much about Buddhism I would think that a more direct approach being willing to feel himself and accept the consequences might have been I don't really understand the moral of Buddhism I understand. I would sort of like cancel that part of the story. Or another way to put it he had enough direct contact with his teacher and that's

[46:22]

so I think that usually what you're saying is the way. However, if he had gone directly the nuance of the story wouldn't have been the same of having this old gentleman you know and all that mixed in there. It was a little bit it sometimes shows that sometimes the direct way of getting too close to somebody is to have somebody else in between. You know. Sometimes you have to bounce off the walls a little bit. But that story was about their you know their world class intimacy which includes even that they would use an intermediary. It sometimes is the case you know that certain cultural certain cultural setups are such that you have to do things which maybe seem indirect. And I think that's part of the Japanese traditional society's way of doing things maybe it had to be that way.

[47:25]

And yet these two men I mean they were they were closer to each other than they were to anyone else. Even though maybe they had to use this friendly relationship of some other person to to make this kind of spiritual transmission occur. But it's usually what you're saying is the way it is about face-to-face meeting you know. But sometimes face-to-face meeting looks you know funny. Like have somebody else in there. To sort of like maybe to open up some of the subtlety of the meeting. But basically usually it's the way of just not having anybody in between. And he had spent a lot of time dealing directly with that with that that teacher basically saying can you practice Zazen with this? You know with me being this way.

[48:29]

However that happened. Okay. Okay. You're welcome. Yes. Would you repeat the question? It wasn't a question. It was just a she just said her feeling about my relationship with my teacher. Right? I sometimes say you know if I look at my life I don't know I can't see how I would be so lucky. But I am. Probably in my past life I was really good. Yes. And

[49:44]

did he know it before you knew it? And when he gave it to you was he the first person to ever have read you that? And when that happened to you was it was the name he gave you a reminder of a life practice? Can you just talk more about that interaction? Well one thing I'm thinking about is you said was that the first time I felt anyone allow Reb to be Reb? Is that what you said? I would say no. I felt other many, many people have been very kind to me. I not just that's one this is one big example but I I sometimes think about people are really kind

[50:45]

to me basically. Of course they slip occasionally but I mean the preponderance of kindness and patience with me is very great. So people have a lot people have said to me go ahead go ahead you can be yourself. I felt that many, many times in my life. Lots and lots have also helped to do that. But he was the first person who ever like stated it as I mean that that was that that was who I was. Sort of you know and my name should be me being me. And and that actually is who I am. I mean it just that I really felt at that moment he really understood me somehow. And also that he said what else he said that I have to be that way.

[51:45]

In other words he was saying you have to be that way. Don't don't try to be somebody else. And also people will have trouble with that. They already are having trouble with it. And they will continue to have trouble with it. But this is your way. This is your virtue. And I think he was saying that to me for me and and he understood me but I think he was also telling me spread the word. Have that be your teaching. Tell other people that they are who they are and that that is their name too. Help give people that confidence in their Buddha nature. This will be your practice as a priest. And this will be a great thing which is Zenki. But he he wasn't the he wasn't the first last or only person to support me in that way but he was

[52:47]

he was the first one to really you know clarify that this is that this is practice. This is his teaching to me. Do you want to sit on the Zafura chair or on the Zafura right here. Zafura right here. Does that meet your question? Yes. [...] Forgetting

[53:50]

because I think the world itself is wanting to support the forgetting. It's not just for you but you know for most people awakening and being so strong in yourself is a threat to the status quo in the world. Yes. I know for me it's a very powerful condition. I really appreciate yourself for being here. What's your name? My name is Shakti. Shakti. So Shakti is saying that she forgets about the teaching of being yourself in the midst of all that's going on in the world, right? The world seems to say you know forget yourself in a way. And the world in some ways part of the world was created by the idea of forget yourself. But also forget yourself is to forget yourself

[54:51]

not just forget yourself but forget yourself to get something for yourself. If you forget yourself we'll reward you or you know. So that builds the world and then the world reflects that back saying forget yourself and that'll be good and you'll be rewarded. We'll give you something if you forget yourself. It seems to say that. So what we have to understand is we have to teach ourselves that the world is actually saying remember yourself. When we meet people we need to remember this person is telling me remember yourself. That's Zazen is to understand that everything is saying this is your life. I'm here to remind you to look at yourself. Everybody's here for that. Everybody's here to that to remind me to look at myself. In that way everybody is my life is my practice. And I have to keep remembering that because the usual idea

[55:53]

is the other is saying I'm not you. Right? That's the usual world. I'm not you. And they should say I'm not you and that's the way to really develop your confidence that everything is reminding you of what you are. It's true that people aren't you but they're reminding of what you are and only through others can we fully realize ourself. We have to do that practice which is called the self-fulfilling awareness. Self-fulfilling Samadhi is to understand that everything in the world is pointing back to you and that you aren't pointing to everything. That you or your life is everybody else and your life includes everybody else but everybody else includes you. But you also have in order to have that really work it can't just be up in your head it has to be you have to do this practice in the middle of feeling

[56:53]

the anxiety and pain that arises from thinking that other people aren't you. So if you put that practice into if you put that practice into effect up in your stratosphere of your being it won't work. You have to put it you have to do that practice while feeling the impact of your anxiety and pain. When you can remember to do it there that will help you settle more fully into your body and mind and then again do it even in a more fully settled presence then it transforms your being. And again the world says and you say to yourself can I really afford to really settle into this experience moment by moment and still answer the telephone and so on? Well that's the question

[57:54]

and the answer is yes yes I will I will practice that way. It doesn't mean yes I am practicing that way that's different you don't go around saying yes I am practicing that way that's a distraction but yes I will this is my nature and I will slip sometimes too but that's not my intention. Okay? Yes? Can you hear her okay? I can't. Can you say something about right association? Right association? What do you mean by right association? Did you say holy company? You mean like good friends? And well there is

[58:57]

there is this teaching which sounds a little dualistic in Buddhism too you know it sounds a little dualistic so first of all the Bodhisattvas the Zen of the Zen tradition their vow is to live for the welfare of others right? So if somebody is suffering we vow to go and be close to them you know and to be present with them and be ready in any way we can be helpful not to manipulate people but to just be present with them in whatever way it might be helpful we don't know exactly what is helpful so that's our vow at the same time it is recommended that you don't spend you don't associate with people who are you know not interested in being present but associate doesn't mean that you don't go and help those people and love those people and listen to those people and listen to those people

[59:58]

and listen to those people up close it doesn't mean that it means you don't associate with them like you don't like associate with that habit of distraction but you don't stay away from those people now on the other hand if you can't go near certain people and maintain your presence then your practice isn't yet ready to hang out with those people and you can't help them as a matter of fact you may even compound their problems if you lose track of your own presence so in that case that's a kind of that's association when you when you form an association with them like you become part of the unwholesome tendencies but if you can go and be with people even who are having some problems in some unwholesome practices and you can stay present well that's great you have to be honest with yourself about whether you can continue your practice in someone's presence and if you can't well then you should get yourself

[61:00]

into a situation where you can settle and be present where you can you know where you can appreciate the nature of your being the nature of your suffering and not and not use anybody else as an excuse to be distracted once you're back with yourself again then you should naturally go forth to help others and share your presence with them and again if you find out it's too much for you go back to your monastery wherever that is so there are stories you know one of the first couple stories I read about Zen was one was well the first one is a little out of order I'll tell the first one is that a monk who finished his training finished his Zen training he went to the capital I think probably Kyoto he went out of the mountains back into the capital and he met these people you know and I'm not saying the people were distracted necessarily but they were rich famous people right and he couldn't continue his practice

[62:00]

he got distracted by all that energy so in that case he started to be associated with that distracted energy of the wealth and power of the capital so he went back and studied six more years then he could then he could cope with that so the related story which is basically the same thing is a monk came back to study with his teacher also a post graduate student came back to visit his teacher on a rainy rainy night and he went and paid his respect to his teacher and his teacher said which side of the door did you put your shoes and which side did you put your umbrella and he couldn't remember so he stayed and studied six more years so if you can if you can be mindful and stay present and listen to what's going on listening and sensing what's happening and be present with yourself then you can hang out with

[63:02]

so and so if you can't this is an example you shouldn't be associating with that situation it's over your head you should recollect yourself and then when you're back to yourself again then go back try it again until eventually hopefully the idea is finally Bodhisattva can go in into really wild situations where people are really doing extremely vivid and energetic expressions and you can stay present with it so I mean just to look at your teenage child in the face you know when they say mommy or daddy I want something you know and they're giving you all that energy and look in their eyes and not blink you know of course you have to

[64:04]

associate with them but but the idea is that somehow not cave in and betray yourself and not and not overpower them and to and to find that balance point you have to keep your eyes open and if you look away just for a second you could do major damage one way or another if you can do that then it's okay to hang out with teenagers otherwise you should come to the Zen Center old folks home and get settled before you try to deal with people who've got that much energy we'll leave you alone for a while we won't test you yes? did you say roller coaster?

[65:06]

as as you can stop and sit with the emotion settle with it hopefully maybe get a better perspective on where it came from what relationship it has to the situation it can be very disturbing in the relationship you have with your teacher and he had with the previous teacher and the previous teacher were very interested in each other there was clearly much emotion and I wondered if it wasn't difficult to be clear about the relationship and what was happening with a strong emotion or what role did it play in a positive way did you say what role does the emotion play in a positive way well I did mishear you I thought you said

[66:18]

roller coaster ok so now what what does the what's the positive role of the roller coaster it isn't that you should go necessarily and look for roller coasters you should just be present but if you're present and you're settled in your body your body tends to open up and your mind tends to open up to experience and you start to open up to the roller coaster but if you do it generally speaking you open up to the roller coaster when you're just almost able to ride it so the thing is if you can stay present on the roller coaster this is a development of your mindfulness it's fine to stay present on a nice little you know I don't know what escalator or something or a well behaved elevator that's fine can you also continue to stay present and awake and flexible and you know warm and kind

[67:20]

and all those other dynamics of that are required to really be present can you do that as the speed builds up and as the as the ups and downs increase can you if so good then that's the advantage of of roller coasters but again you don't go look for roller coasters you just keep working on what's happening right now and your reward for what's happening right now is you will be given roller coasters to ride not when you think you are up for being challenged but just when circumstances offer you this this opportunity to see if you can stay present even through this these little twists and turns of relationship where someone just says something in a little bit some slightly different way than you ever could expect that catches something some little aspect some little question about your about your selfishness

[68:20]

or your unselfishness or your kindness a little question comes up for you and that can really if you hold to that thing it can throw you into a real spin like I some I sometimes tell the story of I mean I do I'm telling the story of one time in Tassajara our monastery we were we built this founders hall for for our teacher right our founder and so we built this founders hall it was a beautiful building and we put this beautiful mud on the wall made from Tassajara mud and Tassajara sand and straw you know it was beautiful but this mud this way of making mud was the way that my Dharma brother learned in Japan so Tassajara is very dry so the mud dried and cracked and fell off so then we were thinking how to what kind of like surface can we put on that wall that will

[69:20]

stand up to the Tassajara dry heat and so someone asked me you know what I thought and I said I really didn't know not too much but I thought it would be nice to do something which would be as beautiful as the original that we tried but that would hold up and I heard some ideas like one idea I heard was to just pull off the old mud and put plywood up and then spray it with stucco and when I first heard that I thought hmm well maybe and then somebody else came up with another idea that they heard of a chemical that you could put in the mud that helped it not dry up so I thought well that sounds that sounds good maybe better and then someone who was telling me about these alternatives started to like talk me in tell me how much better the second alternative would be

[70:21]

and how terrible the first alternative was and I started to like think even more that the second alternative was better than the first and then something happened in my mind and I and I kind of like started to grasp onto the view that the second alternative was better and and then you know and this was like during a winter retreat at Tassajara and I was there you know and I was meditating okay and I my mind was quite serene but when I grabbed onto this idea I noticed that my mind became really disturbed really upset and there's an expression that when that there's different kinds of what we call outflows or leakages in our mind where we set up these energetic disturbances when we attach to things

[71:22]

and one of them is called the outflow due to holding to some fixed view or fixed opinion and when it says that when you hold to some view that this is the right way to resurface a building or whatever when you hold to the view it doesn't mean the view is wrong or right it might be a perfectly good value like whatever you know like could be high value being kind even but as soon as you hold that view you get thrown into a poisonous sea a poisonous turbulent sea and I held that simple little opinion that simple little value of doing this resurfacing job and I was thrown into a poisonous sea and suddenly I was in this turbulence and upset you know and I was really quite embarrassed you know not only was I did I lose my composure but I was supposed to be the teacher of the practice period but actually in my mind it was really a mess

[72:23]

fortunately nobody could tune in so I was sitting in the meditation hall you know with all the other monks sitting quietly but in my head it was like very noisy because I was holding to that view holding to that opinion and I was not riding the roller coaster very smoothly but gradually I was sitting there and I accepted I would say how upset my mind was I knew I was upset and I was really embarrassed that here I was being this upset about something like that right in the zendo so I guess the good thing I did was I just accepted and admitted that I was really upsetting myself by holding to that view

[73:26]

and I was kind of like not suitable for any discussions about this topic because I would bring so much turbulence and attachment to the issue so sitting in the middle of that poisonous turbulent sea a little voice came up inside me a little voice and said clearly observe a little voice said that and and the ocean just went smooth again and I don't know which happened first but I let go of that view and I can't tell which happened first but anyway it just all went smooth and I was like a normal person again now?

[74:30]

well then they went ahead and did it that way of putting this they got this chemical and they put it in the in the plaster in the mud and they put it on and it looks quite nice it doesn't look quite as good as the mud did the mud looked totally you know rustic and funky right away you know it looked when they put the mud on it looked instantly like a 500 year old building even before it cracked it was really great you know but then the new stuff still looked good and it was mud but it looked a little spiffy you know and a little new and a little smoother you know the other way but it was so beautiful it was like it was really great but it didn't hold up yes? where did you say that you were quite upset with the idea of the building are you referring to being excited about the idea or was I

[75:32]

when I said I was excited about the matter of the are you excited about the idea or are you upset about the building my question is is it disturbing well the poisonous or the disturbing part is not the idea I know I'm talking about excitement I don't think it means that you are excited you are very excited about that actually that wasn't the meaning no I mean like poisonous state of mind is what I mean poisonous state of mind means the state of mind that you're being tossed around by you know it's not just being excited if you're excited and you're with that and flowing with it then you're excited but you're riding the roller coaster smoothly and that's fine but when you attach to

[76:32]

something and hold to something then you're holding it you hold it it holds you so I was holding something so I was getting tossed all over the place that's what I mean by being upset it's like upsetting in a negative way not upsetting like surfing upsets you but it's more like upsetting like you're on the surf board and you attach to the surf board and hold to the surf board rigidly and it flies up and hits yourself in the head and cracks your skull that kind of upset damaging destructive negative harmful dangerous poisonous upset that's what I mean and it's not really that way it's only because I hold it if I hadn't held it it wouldn't be a problem at all and when I stopped holding it all I did was stop holding it and everything went smooth and I became a normal human being

[77:32]

again and if somebody asked me about the you know my opinion I could have said I think the second alternative is better but they didn't even ask me I didn't even have to say a word and it all went exactly like I wanted it to however if I had said anything when I was upset what would have happened probably is everybody would have said okay whatever you say and then there would have been a reaction a big bad other side of the answer would have come back huh well you know yeah resistance but you know first of all resistance is one thing but when they give in then they come back with you know belligerence but not because it isn't they may even agree with the idea but if you push people

[78:32]

with that kind of energy that's what they're fighting against they don't even think about the idea anymore that's not the issue so anyway I had this feeling and I knew that if I said anything when I was upset that I would just that I had so much energy about that that most people would have just gone flat but then they get then later you know they get back up and you know and they're mad because they got flattened by that you know fixed view so you get more trouble so I didn't say anything when I felt like that I disqualified myself from the conversation and realized I had to just like sit that boy down and let him face the upset mind and so when I faced it then in the middle of all that turbulence and attachment and confusion and you know in my disqualified state this little message came up and said clearly observe and then everything dropped away my mind

[79:34]

was calm I had no attachment to the idea I still thought it was better to do it that second way but I had no attachment to it and as I say the way I wanted it to happen happened without me saying any word I had previously you know when it first came up I said before I got all attached and upset I had said something about my preference that was enough for my contribution that's enough I don't have to like hold up you know the torch of certainty and you know the truth of the Lord about this thing to make it happen as a matter of fact if you hold that up everybody just goes wow what's that about and that's all they care about forget the project I don't know if that was clear but that's an example of the rollercoaster and how you deal with it you know and how you can get on the rollercoaster and get thrown off unless you're

[80:35]

flexible and kind to the situation Linda hello um the red with red and that's the only thing that could be or any of us could put our name in there and uh people may have problems with that well when I heard you talking about it this morning I didn't have any problems later I started thinking about problems and problems I'm thinking about how easy it is to be deluded with that and so oh I see Linda's Linda people have problems with that too bad because Linda needs to be Linda you got a problem with that and when I see the delusion side of it then I get kind of I really need my clarity I think oh

[81:36]

I can't act like that but then I just lose the ability to have some insight into that Reb and Reb or Linda and Linda you know yes uh huh so so Linda is Linda and then and then you got into this Linda is Linda and do you have a problem with that how I have a delusion about some idea some fixed idea yeah that's that's part of it so yes how about just an idea how about just an idea rather than a fixed idea how about the current idea well how about just fixed for even shorter than two seconds and just that one you know and that one you don't have to say do you have a problem about this unless there is

[82:36]

occasionally it might be that that's who Linda really is once in a while it might be do you have a problem about this I don't find myself you know that when I practice that way I get into this thing well yeah I'm me and do you have a problem with that I don't get into that that much actually when I practice that way that way of this thing that way of practicing yeah I'm this way and you know you can live with it that can arise and that sometime that might be authentically who you are it's possible but a key factor here is not to be so sure you know who you are but just you know do your best expressing yourself at that time just do your best and

[83:39]

the question is are you upright or are you leaning a little bit into Linda or shrinking back a little bit from Linda if you lean into Linda then you say well that's no good then you shrink back it's very hard to come right up and just like stop right at Linda and not lean if you got the momentum of coming up to that it's hard not to go too far so you do go too far so you get burned well then you get burned then you go back too far you shrink away then you come back back and forth back and forth mostly missing the point but still the orientation is clear we must be with what's happening and if there's a Linda in the area you gotta work on that one

[84:42]

if there isn't you can't and you shouldn't and sometimes there isn't which is fine anyway you deal with what's happening and that's very clear and if it's not then let's discuss it until it is but even when it's clear very clear there is just simply the skill of settling perfectly onto what's happening and that is the art of just sitting which takes constant lifelong effort and so like I sometimes use the example you can decide very clearly that you want to go to Japan and get in your boat but most of the time you're pointed towards Hawaii or Alaska very seldom are you actually pointed directly to Kobe or Tokyo mostly you're going north and south

[85:44]

of Japan and occasionally you just switch from one extreme to the other you temporarily pass and touch your direction and feel a fleeting sense of being right on course but then you go too far the other way you can't stay right on course all the time but the mind of enlightenment is what's guiding you back to the direction you want to go which is the direction of being with what's happening so fully that you're free of it but there is a great skill there and it that's our that's our learning by trial and error practice

[86:23]

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