You're afraid... well, first of all, let's talk about what are you afraid of? What will happen? What are you afraid about opening yourself to it? And then if you... yeah, well, like I said, when the Bodhisattva first feels the pain, that arises from caring for others, at first the Bodhisattva is terrified. So your fear is a normal part of the process. So, then, if you can remember that this pain you're

[01:06]

feeling is not coming from a bad source, it's coming because you care. It's terrifying, but again, that would be normal if you were afraid. Then you may be able to see that there's a happiness there, because you do care enough to feel pain about these people you care about, these people you love. You don't even see them, but you sense them and you love them, even without knowing them, you love them. And you don't want any harm to come to them, even though you don't know their names, you do not want them to be hurt. And because you do not want them to be hurt, you feel pain when you hear that they're being hurt. But there's a happiness in that, and that happiness will lead you to be able to practice giving. And as you practice giving, you will become less afraid of this process. And when you

[02:17]

say, do anything, if you practice giving, that is doing something. You may not be able to...you can't stop the harm that's happened from having happened, but if the giving starts happening, that starts transforming the whole process. That's your natural contribution to the whole process, is to start practicing giving. But the giving has to come with this... The giving that comes from compassion means the giving that comes with pain, but it's also the giving that comes from happiness, with the pain of caring for people. And then happiness comes with the giving. You have to have the happiness of caring enough for people to feel the pain, and then the happiness of being able to practice giving. And then

[03:19]

you are doing something. I mean, not you are doing something, but something that's happening which is contributing to the welfare of the whole situation. But some fear is, like I said, terror and delight, they both happen to the Bodhisattva. The light will come with it. Questioner 1 asking a question in Hindi.

[04:43]

Rosemary is asking about the Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, the Bodhisattva whose name means to listen to the cries of the world. And Avalokiteshvara is pictured in many ways, but very seldom is Avalokiteshvara pictured smiling very broadly and looking really happy. Avalokiteshvara looks calm usually and at ease while he or she is listening to the suffering beings. But the Hotei looks really big smile, and sometimes even like this, you know, with the hands up like this. So that face could be understood as a face to welcome people who

[05:52]

maybe need a more broad or more intense expression, not just a more intense, but a more gross form of happiness that they can see. If they go into the temple maybe and they see all these calm Buddhas and calm Bodhisattvas, and maybe this more exuberant form of happiness is easier for them to identify as happy. So I think it's part of the team effort of the different beings that some are attracting people in one way and others attract them in another way. Some people don't like that happy Buddha. They like the more serene Bodhisattva. But some people, the serene Bodhisattva, they don't relate to it. So children, a lot of

[06:55]

children like those happy Buddhas. They can understand it. It looks kind of funny, almost like a clown with a big stomach. But that Buddha also is a transformation, or that Bodhisattva is a transformation of a Bodhisattva who appears in quite a different way. I think that that... Is it correct that that's a transformation of Maitreya Buddha? Maitreya Buddha often appears very serene. But if it helps people, Maitreya Buddha can pop out of the stomach and smile very broadly, so that people feel comfortable. Like some children are afraid to come into this hall because they're afraid of the statue. And children are not. But I think that's part of the welcoming program of the tradition, to have some other forms.

[07:58]

Did I respond to your question? It's another quality, but it's another quality because people need that quality. Just like Green Gulch, we have the garden, because some people, the Zen does too austere, or looks too formal. So they come into Green Gulch through the garden. They feel comfortable in the garden. Or some other people come to Zen Center because they like the food, they like vegetarian food, they like the bread. So they eat the bread, and they eat the bread, and then after a while they say, maybe I can go in meditation hall now. Because the bread is maybe not so frightening, not so awesome. It's such a simple, elegant room. So there's various ways that you bring people into the Buddha's, into the Buddha mind. And various qualities will be appropriate for different people. And various, what do

[09:05]

you call it, personifications, impersonations of these qualities will attract different people. Someone told me one time that there was a person at Zen Center who was not the typical idea of a Zen student, the unusual type of Zen student. He drank alcohol, and smoked cigarettes and marijuana, and made a lot of noise, and got in a lot of trouble at Zen Center. But when this person met this person he said, seeing that he could be a Zen student, I realized I could be a Zen student. But if the person had seen all sort of well-behaved, disciplined students, they might have thought, oh, I can't practice at Zen Center. But they thought, if he can be a Zen student, I can be a Zen student, if

[10:08]

they let him in. So he was kind of a welcoming person in that way, that he made me feel like, I guess they let anybody in. Which is almost true, you know. Yes? You spoke about the translation of the real purpose of a person's response, which is, I think what I heard, the only translation I heard, I don't know if you speak about it. I don't know. It's amazing that the person's response, they didn't know beforehand that it meant there was a teaching. If the teaching is just in other ways, then it's done in a different way.

[11:10]

I'm chewing a muffin. In one sense, if you ask what was the Buddha doing during his entire lifetime as Buddha, I can say today, the Buddha was practicing compassion. The Buddha was practicing giving. And the giving according to each situation. You meet one person and give one thing. You meet another person and give another thing. And there's three things the Buddha would give. Teaching, material things, and fearlessness. So sometimes the Buddha would just meet someone and he wouldn't necessarily give some teaching, he would just demonstrate and initiate them

[12:30]

into fearlessness. Other times the Buddha would occasionally give people things. There's a few cases, but those things were not necessarily all written down because many weren't so interested in the Buddha. Like every day the Buddha went and begged for food. So actually almost every day probably he shared his food with his students, because sometimes people would give him the food and then he would share it. They would give it to him rather than give it to all of them. Or sometimes he'd get a lot and then bring some back. Or sometimes he would go into the house and receive a lot, but the house wouldn't be big enough for all the students, so he would bring it out and give it to them. But also, but usually

[13:30]

when he went to the house to visit the people, he wouldn't give them food. He didn't bring food and clothing with him to give to them. They already had the food and clothing and they were going to give him food and clothing if he would give them the teaching. So usually the thing he had a lot to give was fearlessness of his body and his teachings. That's mostly what he would give and that stuff was remembered. But he would also sometimes give material things if people needed it. Usually that was not his job, but there are examples of where he gave material things. And of course many examples were material. Every day he was given material things. But when people gave him food, then they would get back, he would give

[14:32]

back to them the gift of letting them give him food. So he would give them the gift of them being generous by receiving their gifts. So he gave that back to them every time they gave to him. But that's not a material thing, that's a spiritual thing. When they were giving food, they were giving the material thing, but they also gave him the spiritual thing, because they not just gave him food, but he also got their generosity, if they were generous, probably usually they were. If you give something to someone that you don't really want to, then you don't give the spiritual giving, it's not there. Does that answer your question? So that the teaching is higher? The teaching you could say is higher, but I think, again, it's good to make the point that even if the teaching was higher, which I'm not saying it is, the most important point

[15:36]

that I'm bringing up today is the appropriate response. Some people don't want the teaching. They want a donut. Or they want fearlessness. They want to look in your eyes. They don't want any teaching. So the Buddha didn't say, hey, I got this teaching, was it superior to anything? No, he didn't. He gave them what was appropriate. So you can say teaching is higher than the material thing, but really it's more like the teaching is, what the Buddha does is what's appropriate. Sometimes it's like literally teaching, but even if he gives food when it's appropriate, that's his teaching too. But the question, that worldly question as opposed to the question that's a spiritual question, the teaching that's a spiritual question that might be appropriate may be

[16:38]

addressed in the spiritual, the worldly question. I didn't follow that. He had said that the Bodhisattva wants to assist others in being free of their suffering. And that, and I'm sure that he got it in his text, this is a suffering that is a spiritual suffering, not a worldly suffering like not having food. So the Bodhisattva wants to help be free of their suffering. And the appropriate response might be a physical response, like it's possible he would like to teach them so that they can be free of their suffering. Yes, they would, Bodhisattvas want to teach. And is there any other way to try to help them be free of their suffering besides just kindness? Yes, kindness helps them.

[17:39]

Expounding the Dharma is a form of kindness. It's a gift. Giving is, in a sense, a very fundamental form of kindness. So the Buddha's teaching is, when the Buddha is teaching, the Buddha is being kind. And being kind through giving, so when the Buddha is being kind through giving, the Buddha gives carelessness, the Buddha gives material things, and the Buddha gives teaching. But the Buddha can also be kind through practicing patience. The Buddha can also be kind through practicing ethical discipline. The Buddha can also be kind by practicing concentration. Being calm with people is compassion. But it's also a gift. So the Buddha is actually practicing giving, ethics, patience, concentration, diligence,

[18:47]

and wisdom all the time. And the Buddha is giving that all the time, and being patient with people as the gift is being given. All these things are actually happening simultaneously with the Buddha. The arising out of a practice which is not really his or hers, which they understand. It arises out of the practice of the Buddha, which the Buddha is sitting in the middle of. What the Buddha is doing, what's happening, what's happening, is kind of forgiving. That I'm forgiving. That I'm helping. That I'm forgiving. Whether I can do it, all questions and doubts about the efficacy of it. I think one of the things we may be able to understand. And that is, a drug violates the practice.

[19:51]

So in the practice of giving, if you find yourself in the middle of, or if you find this person in the middle of the practice of giving, and you notice that there's kind of a one-sided view of giving appearing, like you think, oh, I'm giving to that person. You look at that, you see there's kind of an enclosed way of looking at the giving, like I'm giving you something. You're in the receiver department, I'm in the giving department, or vice versa. You're in the giving department, I'm in the receiving department. Studying that is part of what it means to study consequence, and action, and self, and enclosure, all that. And if you notice that you're kind of stuck in one part of the process, you'll probably notice that that's painful. And somehow being able to be happy about studying this process,

[21:00]

where pains are being disclosed. Pains are being disclosed because you care enough to work for the salvation of beings, and you can feel happy even though it's painful. Like I said yesterday, I mentioned that someone asked me about how I seem to be comfortable making physical effort, even in my 60s. And earlier, I feel comfortable making efforts which are kind of difficult. And I pointed out that, and I remembered that, when I was two years old, I had polio, and I was paralyzed. And then I received good medical attention, so when I recovered from the inflammation from the infection, I could walk.

[22:08]

By the way, but I still had to do exercises for years, because my muscles got very stiff and tight during the time of paralysis. So at two years old, I was doing stretching exercises daily, and they were painful. To stretch those tight muscles, it was painful. And I cried, I understand, but I guess I didn't resist much. But it was painful for me to do those stretching exercises. But I think from an early age, I learned that there is a happiness in doing something that's rather painful that's good for your health. So I learned that sometimes facing opening to pain is sometimes therapeutic, and that's been helpful to me. And I think other people also have that good fortune to be assisted

[23:14]

in learning that opening to pain and doing some things which are difficult is actually, we need to do that sometimes, and it's not bad. Yes? You're welcome. Yes. Thank you.

[24:32]

Thank you. [...]

[26:24]

Could you hear her question? I thank you for that question. There's many dimensions that you brought up that I'd be happy to talk about, but I'll just deal with maybe two of them. One is that yesterday we had a one-day sitting at a place over the hill, a little temple over the hill called Noh Abode, and I discussed with the people during the talk, I discussed a story, which I would say is... you could say it's a story about Zen theater, you could say, but maybe you could also say it's a Zen drama, it's a story of Zen drama. So the story is that there was a Zen teacher,

[27:34]

his name was Bajong, and he was named after the mountain that he lived on, Bajong Mountain. And whenever he gave a talk to the group, an old man would come. And when the group dispersed, the old man would leave with them. But one day, the old man didn't go. And the Zen master Bajong said, Who is this that's standing before me? And the old man said, I'm not a human being. A very long time ago, I lived on this mountain, and I was a teacher on this mountain. And someone asked me, if a greatly cultivated person

[28:36]

falls into causing effect or not. And I said, she does not fall into causing effect. As a result of that, I was born in 500 lifetimes as a fox, or as a dog. But it's a fox in this case, because in Chinese mythology, it's foxes rather than dogs that symbolize, that are shape-shifters. Foxes are tricksters, or shape-shifters. And they're also symbols of ethical dilemma, and ethical causation. So then the fox, the person, it's fox spirit, can change into a fox, and can change into a person. But it's not really a person. So then this old man says to the teacher, Please give me a turning word.

[29:38]

So the teacher takes the previous expression that this man made, the expression was, does not fall into causing effect, and he changed it to, does not obscure causing effect. And the man, that fox spirit, was enlightened. And then according to this story, the Zen master told his monks, We're going to do a funeral ceremony for a fox. And also the man said, Please do a funeral ceremony for me, a monk's funeral ceremony, because I used to be a monk. So Bajong went with his group out behind the mountain, and dug out a fox, a dead fox, from the bushes. And had the monks do a funeral ceremony for the fox. And the story goes on,

[30:41]

but just I want to say that part. This is supposedly a drama, a theatrical piece. That happened with the great Zen master. But that actually was a dramatic event. Could that have actually happened? Can beings actually be born as foxes? This is part of what you're being asked to look at. And then this story has been brought up for twelve hundred years, and re-enacted in a sense through conversations, through masters commenting on the story, but also students coming and talking to the teacher, and in those meetings, they actually dramatize, they go through the theater of that story, and the teacher and the student work on what's the student understanding of causation. But they're using that old story to do that.

[31:42]

Now this could be extended into new stories, and I think it is, but in America particularly, because I think this is supposed to be a land of freedom of religion, right? It's supposed to be freedom of religion? But the Buddhists aren't so sure that we know we're being allowed here, but we know we're the minority, and if we get too rambunctious, the minority may snuff us out. So we're kind of like, now I'm an American, born in America, but as a Buddhist, I'm like, I'm in the minority. So when it comes to telling stories, about foxes and stuff, you've got to be a little careful here. So a lot of people go to study Zen

[32:45]

and hear these dramas, and actually in their actual private interviews with teachers, they're actually dramatizing these things to help learn cause and effect. But when they go on in public, they may not mention that this is a Buddhist story, because the majority may say, it's a Buddhist story. So they may kind of downplay, take away the word bodhisattva and Buddha, and just say, once there was a teacher, who lived on a mountain, and a fox came, a fox. So just take away the word Buddha. And like Leonard Cohen, you know him? So he studied with Zen for about 10-15 years, and now he's like, not studying Zen formally anymore, but he's back in action. And he's doing what, I think he's doing his part, to dramatize, to teach, what he learned about Zen,

[33:46]

and life. What he learned from smoking, and drinking, and practicing Zen. He studied cause and effect. So he's going to do his best. And, and then here, right now, I'm here, and some of you may come to visit me, and tell me, that we used to teach here, a long time ago. Maybe even before the Native Americans were here. And that you made a mistake, and now you may ask me, and we may have some new drama. And then people may, that actually are happening here, and people are learning dramatically, right here, about cause and effect. Just like you and I are talking right now. Is this theater? Is this dramatic? You know, and maybe, if something spectacularly, wondrous happened between us,

[34:47]

people would tell the story around the Bay Area. I saw this woman, talking to this priest at Greenorch, and, and suddenly, she understood her dog. And then, so that's... And so that starts circulating around the Bay Area, right? And they may, at first, you know, they may say it was at a Zen center. But they may disguise it, and say it was on a farm. So, I think, drama is definitely a key ingredient. And we should, and, you haven't noticed it before, but, I say, if we don't have a dramatic conversation, we're missing out on a, on a,

[35:49]

a fundamentally important venue for transmitting the teaching. Maybe, but also Zen in the temple. So the Buddha, if you, the Buddha one time was, this is supposedly, there was this mass murderer. He was a mass murderer and serial murderer. He was a serial killer, and he also comes and kills large groups of people. And, and the story, as the story goes, he was actually going to kill his mother. And he was actually a good person who kind of went totally crazy and became this, like, like, you might say, like some other serial killers, are good people who just go completely nuts. And they start coping with life by killing people. And that's the story of this guy. A very good person, in a way.

[36:50]

Did a lot of good things, but then something broke. And he went into this horrible transformation and he killed people. That's the story. And he was going to kill his mother, and the Buddha happened to be there at that moment, according to this story. And the Buddha then walked between him and his mother. Our Buddha did that. And this guy goes after the Buddha. And he starts running after the Buddha, and the Buddha is walking slowly. And he's running as fast as he can, but he can't catch the Buddha. And he yells out to the Buddha, Why can't I catch you? And the Buddha says, Because I've stopped. And the guy wakes up and becomes a disciple of Buddha. And then there's more to the story, but this is very dramatic. We have dramatic stories in the tradition that actually were performed. Now, if we really had a healthy tradition, and we had a Buddha, we would have Broadway right here. So, you know.

[37:51]

But we're kind of not very good, so we're mostly telling the old stories, and have a few new ones, and the best ones maybe turn into plays, which will be enacted around the country, around the world, if they're good enough. But anyway, definitely we need, humans need drama in order to, humans need drama in order to learn Dharma. You can learn it somewhat without drama, but drama is necessary to really enact it. And it's hard to enact the Dharma without it being dramatic. And drama, I propose to you, has to do with, from Greek times, it has to do with the consequences of actions. It's demonstrating to people, that a boy, so-and-so, had an affair with his mother, and then,

[38:55]

gets his eye taken out. Greek drama, is very much about cause and effect, and studying how it works. A great person develops hubris in the way of tragedy. So, so it's very much the point. Yes. [...]

[40:01]

I partly didn't get your question because I couldn't hear so well. Could you say it again a little louder? Okay. Yes. Excuse me, I kind of lost you there because if you're trying to assist someone who's having difficulty, isn't that already the Bodhisattva level? Well, I think, yes, we are. Yes, maybe there are ten or ten people that can make it. Yes. Yes. But, that sounds like

[41:05]

the Bodhisattva level still. There's a population which could be like one person, or two, or many. You want to help them, and, in the process, in the process of fulfilling your desire, you may have difficulty. This sounds like a normal story to me. So far, it sounds normal, and I'm following that as a normal, as a normal process of wishing to help people. It's that you wish to help them, and when you endeavor to do so, you have difficulty. Yes. Yes.

[42:07]

So, again, I want to try to connect with what you're saying. So, you have a situation of someone you want to care for, and, and when you're caring for them, you feel a lot of pain, because of the situation they're in, coupled with your care for them, you feel a lot of pain. And that, that can get to be as strong as if you start being terrified. And when you're terrified, you may be slipping to, like, attachment or something to try to, like, get some control over the situation. So that can happen. That's part of the difficulty that could happen as you wade into helping people, is there can be tensing up attachment and fear. But, again, this is, like, normal that you're running into.

[43:27]

It doesn't always happen, but when I hear it was happening, I said, yeah, right. That happens a lot of the time. Attachment is the agenda Attachment is not exactly on the agenda. It's just that attachments may arise. You're concerned to help someone. You're not concerned with getting them to do what you want. You're concerned with getting them what they need and what would be good for them, even if what's good for them is something you had no idea about beforehand. But as you start to help people, you may have some idea about what would be helpful. And then, if you get scared, you may hold on to your idea rather than, for example, asking them what they want. But, again,

[44:28]

what they want isn't necessarily what's helpful either. The key ingredient of happiness is very important because when you're happy in the pain, you're open to the question of what's appropriate. But if you're in a painful situation and you're not happy, you start to close down and then you can't see what's helpful anymore. So the happiness that comes with the caring for the person and the happiness which comes from embracing the pain you feel because you care for the person, that you know I can even be happy when I start to feel the pain because this is appropriate pain. That happiness makes you open to what might be helpful. And that openness to what is helpful is the birth

[45:30]

of the giving. But when you're giving, you don't have some fixed idea about what giving is. This giving is coming from compassion which is not like I'm giving you this. It's more like you're in the giving process. And then you have the joy of giving which again opens you up. So the more joy there is and the more happiness coming from compassion, the less you attach to the way it's going to go. If you stay away from people and don't care about them, you can say, Hey, I'm quite open about what might be helped. I don't even care about their health anyway. I feel no pain about their suffering. Okay, fine. But when you start to care about them deeply, you start to feel pain about their suffering. But that pain is better than the greatest worldly happiness. And you start to feel

[46:30]

this great happiness about having the right kind of pain. The pain that comes with caring for people. And that happiness helps you be not attached. And then that happiness helps you be generous. And generous means this is what I... I'm going to give what I say is giving and you listen to what I say. This is a gift. Take it. No. Giving comes with joy and with that joy you say, Here's my gift. And you say, Okay, I'm going to throw it out the window and you say, Great. And then you... I'll be out there to catch it. Whatever. You're having a good time practicing giving. Giving, however, is not painful. Giving is just joyful. But when you first start practicing compassion, it says, pain comes to the bodhisattva who is practicing compassion.

[47:30]

Now pain comes to people who aren't practicing compassion, but the pain that comes to them, as I mentioned, comes from people insulting you, people insulting your friends, people talking behind your back, people talking behind your friend's back, people taking stuff from you that you want, that kind of suffering. This is the bodhisattva suffering. It's that you do feel pain and it can be terrifying. That's why you need joy to antidote, happiness to antidote that. That's terror. And then after a while you're in there, in this real difficult situation, wading into it with joy, and with the joy you can be flexible. With the joy you can relax. And then you can start being generous. And generous means you can let people be what they are. And you can let them change their agendas all the time about what they want. And you can continue to be joyful about feeling pain when they get confused about what the gifts you're giving them. That's why I bring in

[48:34]

the suffering that is involved in compassion. There is suffering involved in it, but it's a bodhisattva suffering. It's the suffering of the kind person. It's a good suffering. The word for compassion, karuna, means dented happiness. It's a happiness that has a dent in it. Or it's a dent that's surrounded by happiness. It's a happy dent. It's a happy pain. It's a pain you wouldn't trade in for the worldly... Well, you wouldn't trade this pain in for worldly happiness. Because you know this is... Because you feel so happy having the right kind of pain. The pain of Buddha. The pain of the bodhisattva. Hmm? Martyrdom? Well, we could...

[49:36]

Again, we could try that drama. Nancy, would you be a martyr? Oh, let me see this second. Let me check that out here. What kind of martyrdom do you have in mind? You know, we could discuss it. I'll talk to you about it. But it's not like when they bring it up and you say, Oh, finally, I'm going to get some real good stuff here. No, it's more like, Would you consider that? We can converse about it. Dramatically converse about the martyrdom opportunities. Okay? Sound dramatic? That's the greatest challenge. Did you have a hand raised? Yes? So, Yeah, it's okay. Yes,

[50:50]

it's strange. A suffering that surpasses all worldly happiness? What? Did you hear what she said? Huh? She says she's trying to mess it. She wants to live to help all beings, but some people tell her that she's doing that at the expense of her own health. So,

[51:54]

yes. Self-health, self-health, self-health, self-happiness, self- think. That's why that's why that's why you really should listen to those people because if you're not happy doing this, you're not doing it quite right. So, not only should you be getting happy doing this kind of stuff, but you need to be happy in order to do stuff properly because otherwise you can be devoted some people are devoted to help people and they're having a really lousy time and and they and they compensate themselves for helping people by trying to get their way because they think they'll feel good if at least at least I don't like to help people but at least if I can get them help the way I want them to be helped at least I'll feel good about that. So then they become coercive helpers. Which is is not good for the

[52:56]

helper either. It's not good for the helpee and it's not good for the helper to be abusive and coercive in your helping. But if you're trying to help people and you're having joy about it then you can be flexible and if you're trying to help them this way and they say we don't want to be helped that way you can say okay, what way do you want to be helped? And they say we want to be helped this way and you might say okay, I'm not going to help you that way I don't want to help you that way. They say, I thought you wanted to help me. I do, but I don't think that's helpful so I'm not going to do it. You say, oh come on. You say, oh okay. You can be flexible, you know. And then you can, you know, you can play. And you can show them that they can be flexible and they can play rather than get overly serious about helping people. So if you're not having a lot of joy in your helping people I think your friends are right that you're something's a little off there. You should you want to help people because you feel pain because you care for them.

[53:58]

But you've got to have more you've got to Karuna compassion isn't just pain compassion isn't just passion it's happy passion it's happy compassion. So your friends may be right that you should be having a good time in your activity of helping beings. And if you're not demonstrating that you're thriving you should thrive and you should thrive not only for 18 reasons you should thrive you should thrive because if you're thriving it shows you you're dealing with the suffering you feel appropriately. You should thrive so that your work will grow. If everybody who's helping people is making themselves sick we're not going to have any helpers pretty soon. That's called burnout. We don't want to burn out we want to bloom out. And you have to you bloom from happiness in helping beings. But there's pain there you're blooming in pain you're blooming in pain.

[55:01]

But you should be blooming otherwise why would they how could you help them if you don't know how to bloom how can you help them bloom? But if you can bloom in the pain you feel for them you can show them how they can bloom in the pain that they're feeling in the pain and teach them to feel pain for others and let them bloom from that pain. Get them to trade in their personal selfish pain for the pain of compassion by showing them how much fun it is to have the pain of compassion. It's fun it's happiness to feel compassion. And compassion comes with pain but not selfish pain. So your friends I think have done you a service by saying you can keep doing this work but you better be happy you better be thriving you better be bubbling with life otherwise we're going to bust you you have to take a vacation you know, time out until you can come back to that work with joy even though it is painful work.

[56:04]

So I think they got a point this should be good for you too. You're included it should benefit you. You're concerned with them first but being concerned with other people first should be happiness for you. People who are concerned for themselves first are unhappy. People who are concerned for others are sometimes happy but sometimes not. Got to care for them in such a way that you feel happy to care for them. And of course sometimes you do feel really happy that you care about people. That's the right kind of happiness? Because it's a happiness which is grounded in suffering. Which is natural when you care about people. And a happiness that comes from not caring about people is no good. It causes you suffering and others suffering. Does that make some sense? Yeah, I'm just I'm wondering about the separation itself but I think that's

[57:09]

the only thing that makes sense. That's part of the work too is to get is to understand you have to practice wisdom too. I didn't get into it today but part of helping people is is to vow to become wise. Which means you understand the equality of self and other. In order to really be fully helpful you have to understand you're not separate from other beings. I didn't get into that much today. I mentioned it a little bit but that's a necessary part of your equipment that you have to develop in order to help people. You've got to develop transcendent wisdom also. It's kind of a big project but since you brought it up, there it is. I'm sorry I kept you late for lunch. Please forgive me.

[57:58]

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