I have something I'd like to discuss with you today, and as I contemplated such a discussion, I felt some warnings would be good. And I feel that what I wanted to talk about is potentially very interesting and useful, but many interesting things or useful things, if not handled properly, can be potentially harmful. For example, a sharp knife. Even poison can be used in very, very small doses, like, for example, bee venom, in very,

[01:13]

very small doses, can sometimes help people with allergies. But of course, if you take too much bee venom, you can get very sick or die. And even teachings, like teachings about physics, if not used properly, could be harmful. And religious teachings can also potentially be harmful if we don't receive them properly, appropriately. I like that song. It ain't necessarily so, it ain't necessarily so.

[02:14]

The things in the Bible are something libel. It ain't necessarily so. And then there's another part which says, it's best to take them with a grain of salt. Like we chant at the Zen Center, and almost all Zen Centers in the United States and Europe and Korea and Japan and China and in Tibet, too, we all chant the Heart Sutra, the heart of perfection of wisdom, and in there it says, in emptiness, which means in the realm of ultimate truth, there is no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind.

[03:16]

And one time, a young man who became one of our ancestors in our lineage, he heard that chanting and he said to his teacher, the Heart Sutra says, no eyes, no ears, says in emptiness, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, but I have eyes and ears and a nose. That's an example of taking this very deep teaching with a grain of salt. But he did receive the teaching, and he became a very pivotal jewel in the tradition of Zen, of transmitting that very teaching which he said, but I have nose. What does it mean? Why does the Heart Sutra say, no nose? And each lineage, and the lineage of this temple is a particular lineage, has its particular

[04:35]

offering to people, or I shouldn't say each one does, but I think this tradition has a particular offering, I have a particular offering for you, my own particular offering, but I think for it to be useful I also have to embrace the broad range, the whole spectrum, I have to be non-sectarian at the same time that I'm offering you, I'm offering you not the truth, in a sense, I'm not offering you the truth, I'm offering you my understanding of the truth. So I'm offering you the truth, and there's only one, and that's one of the truths that I offer you is that there's only one truth, but that's me, just me saying there's only one truth, but I also want to offer that in a way that doesn't exclude any other people

[05:37]

offering the truth. I'd like to do that, so otherwise you might think, well I guess I should take the truth from him and that's the truth and then you grasp it, and if it is the truth it's not meant to be grasped tightly, it wouldn't need to be. The founder of this temple said something like, Buddhism, or the Buddha way, the Buddha way I like better than Buddhism, because he said Buddhism is not one of the isms, the Buddha way is not an ism, he said, Buddhism is not one of the isms like Judaism, Islamism,

[06:41]

Catholicism, Protestantism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Daoism, Capitalism, Communism, it's not one of those, and at the end of the list he says, Buddhism, Buddhism is not one of the isms like Buddhism, Buddhism is when Buddhism leaps beyond, leaps free of Buddhism. It may not be too difficult for Buddhism to leap beyond Judaism, but it's quite difficult for Buddhism to leap beyond Buddhism, and that's what the Buddha way is, Buddha way is basically leaping beyond Buddhism and not Buddhism. It's leaping beyond Catholicism and not Catholicism. There is Catholicism, I guess, and not Catholicism, and some people are saying, that's Catholicism

[07:48]

and that's not. They have a catechism, this is Catholicism and that's not Catholicism, right? Some people learn that, this is Catholicism, this is not Catholicism, this is Judaism, this is not Judaism, this is Buddhism, this is not Buddhism, and in Buddhism there's ways, you know, we give you ways to tell if it's Buddhism or not. There's four seals by which you can tell if a teaching is the Buddha way, and I'll tell you the four in question and answer, I don't want to get into them, that's a whole other lecture, but there's four criteria you can use to tell if a teaching is the Buddha Dharma. But Buddhism is basically leaping beyond all that. That's what it basically is. So now that I've said that, please remember that the Buddha way is to leap beyond everything

[08:52]

I say today, to leap free of anything interesting that I put out there as the Buddha way, and to leap free of that idea too. But that's part of the teaching, is that when you leap free of Buddhism, when you leap free of the Buddha way, bippity-boppity-boo, you land in the Buddha way, and if you leap, then you get stuck in the Buddha way again, you leap free of it, and you realize, oh, that's the Buddha way, so I'm back in the Buddha way. You leap free of gain and loss, and so you're back in gain and loss. So in the tradition of called Soto Zen, we sometimes say Soto Zen to identify the tradition of the founder of this temple, and now today this is how I am as I tell you this, I agree

[09:58]

with this, in this tradition, the true path of enlightenment is to sit upright in the midst of the awareness of how you receive and give away yourself. Every moment. That's the true path of enlightenment, to sit upright or to be upright, and be aware of yourself as it's fulfilled, as it's given and given away, as it's received and given away. True path of enlightenment is to sit upright and realize how, the way you're, what you're experiencing right now, what you're experiencing right now, is not making itself happen, it's happening through the support of all beings together with all Buddhas and all Bodhisattvas,

[11:02]

to be aware of that way that you are, is the true path of enlightenment. That is enlightenment, actually, the way you are, the way you're being assisted by all beings, the way what you are is just the total influence of all beings, and the way all beings are just the total influence of you and everybody else, the way we're totally intimately bonded to each other, that's enlightenment. And to sit upright in the midst of that awareness is the true path to realizing it. That's the way things are, but we have to practice sitting upright, being aware of it, to realize it. So another way to put this is that the way things are is that we are, is that I am right

[12:08]

now here in this form, not by my own power, and yet I'm here by your power, by the power of your being, I'm here. By the power of all beings, I'm here. By your power and the power of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, I'm here, and I'm here again, and I'm here again. This is my life. That's the way things are. And yet, if I don't practice a way in accord with that, I won't realize it, I won't act like that. I won't act like I understand that. If people are, if I'm driving on the street and somebody, like, pulls in front of me, and I'm not in this awareness, I may decide to smash into the person, to punish them for

[13:09]

their rudeness with their car. Or I may not do it, but I may think of it. Or I may wish that the person's car would careen off the road and that their car would be smashed to smithereens. I may think things like that, because I don't understand. I don't realize that this person driving this car, and this car being driven by this person, and my car being driven by everybody, as me, I don't realize this. So I hate this person. I don't love this person. I don't want this person to drive safely along his path and become a Buddha. So when I sit in meditation, I need to understand

[14:10]

that my sitting is calling. My sitting is calling all the Buddhas and all living beings to come and make my sitting happen. I sit through the support, and my sitting calls all the Buddhas to come and be with me. I request. It's an expression of a request. That all Buddhas come and join me. It's an expression of the intention to practice the true way of enlightenment. I'm sitting in meditation as a request. And when I request all Buddhas to come, they are there simultaneously with my request,

[15:13]

not later. A being who sits upright and requests Buddha, Buddha is there, not later. This is another way to express the kind of awareness in which the true path of enlightenment blossoms. For example, the true path of enlightenment oftentimes is said to blossom first, the first blossoming, actually I say first blossoming, but they say the seed, the seed of enlightenment, which eventually blossoms as the great lotus of complete awakening, but the seed of complete perfect Buddhahood is this thing that arises in a person as a wish or as a desire to become Buddha in order to help all beings.

[16:21]

Also a feeling of compassion often predates this wish, and the compassion also arises because of causes and conditions, and then depending on causes and conditions, including compassion, including the wish that all beings would be free of fear and all beings would be wise, that wish arises depending on compassion. But also that wish to become enlightened, which is the seed of Buddhahood, it doesn't arise by the person herself, she doesn't make it happen. Like right now, you might be able to sit here right now and say, okay, I'm going to make the thought of, I'm going to make the thought of the wish, I'm going to give rise, I'm going to produce the wish to attain supreme Buddhahood for the welfare of all beings. Okay,

[17:30]

here we go, one, two, three, I want to attain Buddhahood for the welfare of all beings. I do, I really do. So there, I made it happen myself. You could think that. Did anybody do that? I just did it. But really, you didn't do it by yourself, you did it because I talked about doing it, and you thought, okay, I'll try it. But I didn't do that by myself, I did it because you're here, and I did it because all Buddhas have done it, and I heard about it, and so on, many, many conditions. So really, this wish, this seed of enlightenment arises not by the person's power, and Buddha doesn't make it happen either, otherwise why Buddha would just make it happen all the time? Buddha would just make you always think of that, and Buddha could make it happen, but you would never forget it, no matter what happened, Buddha would just go boom, boom, boom, but Buddha doesn't do that, and as far as I know, Buddha can't, Buddha is not in control of us, Buddha doesn't control the

[18:32]

living beings, or Buddha doesn't control the other Buddhas either, and the other Buddhas don't control the Buddha, but we influence each other constantly, and in the midst of this communion, in the midst of this mutual communion, this receptive, responsive, sympathetic communion between you and all beings, and between you and all Buddhas, this thought, this seed of enlightenment can arise, and I've seen it arise in people. They didn't make it happen, I didn't make it happen, their mother didn't make it happen, but their mother, their father, their uncle, me, all the Buddhas, everything made it happen, and when it arises, remembering how it happened, that you didn't make it happen, like I made that happen, or you made that happen, didn't you? You did that, didn't you? So some people say, oh, the teacher did it,

[19:33]

or I did it, but really the teacher and the student together, not just together, but cadet together and communing responsibly, the student requesting, the teacher responding, the teacher requesting, the student, in this responsive, sympathetic communion, the thought of enlightenment arises, and the real meaning of the practice arises. So this responsiveness, this request and response, this invocation and answer, this call and answer, between, we say, between unenlightened and enlightened. Unenlightened and enlightened are always together, and yet if the unenlightened do not call to the enlightened, they don't realize that they're never separate

[20:36]

from the enlightened. And again, this enlightened is not a sectarian enlightenment, it's an enlightenment which leaps beyond enlightenment. It's a Buddha which is not like, is leaping beyond being or not being the Pope. It's the leaping beyond being the Pope of the Pope, that is what we mean by Buddha. It's leaping beyond being the Dalai Lama of the Dalai Lama. It's you leaping beyond yourself, it's you leaping beyond what you are right now. The communion between that leaping beyond and that realization of this perfect wisdom, and those who have not yet fully realized it, that communion, where you call out and say, please come and be with me, Buddha. I know you're already with me, but I still know you need to be invited

[21:37]

and I invite you to be with me. So when you sit in meditation, your meditation is a request for company, intimate company, or a request for realization of the intimate company which is there before you sit. The Buddhas are always with you, all sentient beings are always with you because you are nothing other than all Buddhas and all sentient beings. I'm saying this to you, but remember, this is just me talking, okay? And this communion, Suzuki Roshi said, this response of communion is the true meaning of Zen. If you practice, if you go to the Zen Do, or don't go to the Zen Do, but let's say you do go to the Zen Do, many Zen students go to Zen Do's at temples like this or in their

[22:39]

own room, their own house, they go and they sit. If you go with the idea that you're going to sit by yourself, by your own power, that's good, it's a nice thing to do, it's wholesome, but the true Zen is when you go together with everyone, when everyone brings you to your meditation cushion and you bring everyone, and you're going to the meditation cushion, brings everyone with you, and you sit, and in the communion, which you may or may not be aware of, between you and all Buddhas, that's where the true meaning of the Zen practice, which leaps beyond Zen, is realized. Even Zen practice, which I do by myself, can't leap beyond Zen practice, but the Zen practice that I do with you can leap beyond any idea

[23:43]

I have of Zen practice. To tell you how that happens to me all the time, how my idea, how I'm constantly being pushed forth, ejected from, leaping out of, I don't even leap up on my own power, the people I practice with push me out of my idea of Zen into leaping from Zen. So the seed of enlightenment doesn't arise, Buddha doesn't make the seed of enlightenment happen, I don't make the seed of enlightenment happen, you don't make the seed of enlightenment happen, it happens, the thought of enlightenment, the spirit of enlightenment, the spirit of the Buddha way arises in communion between

[24:50]

you and Buddha. When we do ceremonies, some ceremonies like receiving the Buddha's precepts at the beginning of the ceremony, the person who's leading the ceremony says, we invoke, we call the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to come to this ceremony and sustain us. Of course, us doing the ceremony of Bodhisattva precepts sustains the Buddhas. Buddhas are sustained by Buddha precepts ceremonies and Buddhas sustain Buddha precepts ceremonies. Of course they transmit the precepts to people. But when people receive them, they sustain the transmitters. So we invoke the presence of them. And again, the ancestors say that the real merit, the real function, the primary

[25:51]

efficacy of these ceremonies doesn't occur by the merit of the preceptor or the merit of the ordinee. Of course the preceptor is trying to do her best and the ordinee is trying to do his best. They're trying to like really be present and sincere in going through the process of the ceremony, but the real meaning of the precept ceremony comes in the communion that's going on moment by moment. That's where the full function of the ceremony and that's where the full function of the meditation comes and that's where the full function of everything comes from, from this communion. People often ask, well often, many times people have asked me, where's prayer in Zen? Is it

[26:53]

okay to pray in Zen? And I say, yeah. Prayer means, the etymology of prayer I believe is to entreat, to request, to beseech, to beg, to ask. Ask what? Well usually something divine like leaping beyond. I ask, I request, I beseech the leaping beyond, the way of leaping beyond to come and embrace and sustain me. I wish to embrace and sustain the path of leaping beyond and I request to be embraced and sustained by the path, by the way, by the practice, by the living, leaping beyond. So that's a prayer of petition, a prayer of

[27:58]

asking something, but I've also heard that prayer in the Christian tradition, that there's a prayer of petition, which is etymologically what the word prayer means, but there's also a prayer of openness. So there's both, there's the sitting, or the walking, or the chanting, or the studying, or the giving, or the patience, or the precepts, whatever practice you're doing, it's practice, but it's a practice which is simultaneously an expression, a request for communion, so that this practice will be realized as it really is. So I sit, but I request the Buddhas to come and sit with me, so that my sitting is understood as not just some, as an invocation, as a calling. And then, based on this invocational prayer,

[29:06]

then I practice the prayer of openness, openness to whatever appears to be happening, openness to shame that I feel about my conduct, openness to people who look ashamed, openness to my darkness, openness to my pride, which I should be ashamed of, but anyway, before I get ashamed, I open to my pride. I open to my fear, I open to my fearlessness, I open to my enthusiasm, I open to my depression, I open to whatever is happening in me, in my life, in my life, and whatever appears to be happening as you or in you, I open. First of all, though, I

[30:15]

walk around, step by step, invoking the Buddhas to come and embrace, sustain me. I walk around embracing and sustaining all the Buddhas, all sentient beings. That's my basic invocation. I'm in the presence of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and all beings. Now, with all this support, now I dare to open to what's happening. So the two prayers which realize the situation of my life, which is I am nothing but embracing and sustaining all beings and being embraced and sustained by all beings. That's all I am. And I realize it by asking all beings to come with me, to be with me, all enlightened and unenlightened beings to come and sustain me. I invite them, I invite them, and I invite them. And then, with all

[31:18]

this support, I dare to open to them and open to me. In this, and this is the true path of enlightenment, by the way. I say. And hopefully, I just leaped beyond that. So now I can say it again, if I want to, or I can say I'm just kidding. Which, you know, I can leap beyond that too. So I was talking to someone, and he said, someone who actually, this person brought up this thing about trying to be open to her life. And here's a, I just want to do a, something which is kind of a small parenthesis, I think it might be a small parenthesis, but it's a huge, profound parenthesis too, and that is this openness to whatever is happening is called the practice of meditation on emptiness.

[32:24]

Opening to whatever appears to be happening, which means openness to the fact that what appears to be happening is just what appears to be happening and not what's happening, therefore you can be open to it. That's the practice of meditation on ultimate truth. Close parenthesis. Now I was talking to this person about, she brought up openness, and then she told me about, but then I have this thing happens to me, like she feels ashamed of herself. So this person that I'm talking about, she actually, she feels on the cliff of being ashamed of being lazy quite frequently, so just to make sure that she doesn't fall off the cliff of laziness, she generally speaking, what do you think she does? Overworks, right, she overworks. She's very hard working, very hard working. I mean, I used to work hard too,

[33:32]

but now anyway I don't, but I work kind of hard, but not as hard as I used to. And again, that's another parenthesis which you can remind me of later about that story, but anyway, she works much harder than me, I would say now, but she overworks. I, if you excuse me for saying so, work just the right amount. I really don't underwork. I work really hard, but not too hard. I love to work hard, and actually I love to work too hard, but working too hard is not good, so I stopped it, I gave it up. Now I just work hard and happily, and I don't accomplish much. But I work pretty much just the right amount, which is a lot, and I still don't accomplish much. Like Bernard and Lisa worked really hard on the roof of

[34:36]

this building next door, you know, and they're not done yet, but they're going to finish and that's going to be nice, but it's still not much. It's going to be gone in a blink of the eye. But they enjoyed it, right? They're happy, that's the important point. They enjoyed working hard, but they didn't work too hard, did you? No. Just enough. See, they've received the transmission of not working too hard. But this person, she confesses she's worried about working not enough and being ashamed of not working enough, so she overworks, so now she's overwhelmed and now she's ashamed of being overwhelmed by all the work she took on. So she tries to avoid shame by overworking, by working hard, overworks just to make sure that she's not underworking, because I guess she feels better about being ashamed of overworking than being ashamed of underworking, but still she's got shame. So now she's overworking and overwhelmed and ashamed. The other way she could be underworking and underwhelmed

[35:39]

and ashamed, but she really hates that kind, so she does this one, and she brought up openness, and I said, yeah, open to that, open to that. You are responsible for overworking. You are responsible for overworking. She said, it's my fault. I said, not fault, you're responsible. You decided to overwork for whatever reason, and now you're also responsible for being ashamed for overworking. You're responsible. But I am too. I'm responsible too for you overworking, and so is everybody else. You're responsible for her overworking, and she's responsible. We all are, are, are, are responding to her overworking and her feeling ashamed. We are responsible. The question is, are we open to it? And who could stand to be open to being responsible for this woman you don't even know, plus everybody else that's overworking?

[36:41]

Who could stand to be responsible to that and open to that, except in the context of being supported by all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and all beings? I call the Buddhas to assist me in opening to my responsibility for all your bad behavior, and all your shame at your bad behavior. I'm responsible, and I want to live that responsibility. I'm embracing and sustaining you in every unskillful thing you do. Every unskillful thing you do, I support you. I don't control you away from doing unskillful things. I support you when you do them, and so does everybody else support you. Who dares to face the responsibility for that? Only someone who is embraced and sustained by all Buddhas, which is who you are. So you can be responsible to everybody for everything they do, and help them be responsible for

[37:46]

everything they do and everything you do. This is called the prayer of openness, which is the way of realizing, as I mentioned earlier, ultimate truth. You also get to open to people's skillfulness. You're responsible for that, too. Everything anybody does that's good, you're responsible for it. That's why it's kind of okay, almost, to be proud of everybody that ever does anything good. And in fact, that's the main time I cry, is when I see somebody do something really skillful. I cry, and I cry because I'm responsible, because I can respond with tears to them, because I'm responsible for what they do. And when they do something unskillful, I don't usually cry. I usually more just try to work on opening to it, opening to it, not running away, not pushing the blame over on them and say they're

[38:51]

responsible. No. Just one person's responsible. We're all responsible, and they are, too. This is what I talked to her about, and then she gave me all these examples. I said, open to that, open to that, open to that. I said, you know, you're really skillful, and she really is. She's very bright, and she's very skillful, and she's very diligent, and she's like really good at a lot of stuff, and she's very knowledgeable about lots of good stuff. She's fantastic. I said, and you know what? You're also somewhat open, but you know, it would really be good if you got better at being open, a lot better, because you've got lots of stuff happening in your life, because you're very energetic, and she's got a lot happening. The main thing is that she needs to now open, and I'm here to support you to open. Please open. I'm, me and all these other people in the world support you to open to your life. Please do get better and better at it. You actually don't need to get, from

[39:55]

all these things that you're already skillful at. If you get more skillful at those things, great, but I really don't care. If you don't, I won't have any problem with that, but I will have a problem if you don't get better at this opening thing, because you know, you can get a lot more open. Of course, you're already open, otherwise we would just have, you know, paralyzing, totally crushing misery in her case. She's somewhat open, but she got a lot more open. So then she says, but what about if, you know, you see starving children, you know, should you open to that? Of course. But what about, you know, if you see starving children, what you want to do is you immediately want to go and take care of them. I said, well, that makes sense, but what I'm here to say today is that before

[40:56]

you go to take care of them, before you act to take care of this miserable, starving baby, or shame-ridden woman, or prideful man, before you go to help, first invoke the presence of the Buddhas, be in that dimension already, and if you're not, open to it, open to all the support, so that then you can open to the person, open to their misery, open to their starving, open to their shame. So rather than, you should be ashamed to be so ashamed, no, and you should be ashamed not to open to your shame, no. First of all, I want to open to your shame and I want to open to you being closed to your shame. That's the first thing to do, I suggest, to make the interaction enlightening. And it's hard if somebody's

[41:56]

calling out to remember to open to them before you act on what you think they're saying. Open to them means open to the possibility that you don't know what they're talking about, that they're not what they appear to be. Open. Two examples, which I often use is one is thinking about, you're on the airplane, you're with a little kid, the little kid, it's an emergency situation, and the little kid, because of the oxygen pressure dropping in the cabin, the little kid is starving for air and you want to give the kid, or the old lady, or the young man, or whatever who it is, you want to give them the oxygen mask. And they say, if you're helping this person, first put your own on. How selfish! Of course you love this person, you want to give them the oxygen first, well that's fine. Open to

[43:00]

that, and open to that they need your help, open to that you feel guilty putting your own mask on first, and put your own mask on first, so that you can help them. Otherwise, it doesn't always happen, but otherwise, because you didn't open to the reality of the situation, namely you need oxygen to help them get their oxygen mask on, you may not be able to help them, and you may not be able to help yourself, but that's not as important as the fact that you didn't open, because even if you die, even if the oxygen mask don't work and you open to that, you're on the path of enlightenment, and you can die enlightened. Buddha actually, you know, stopped breathing at a certain point, you know, he couldn't get any more oxygen and didn't want to, and still Buddha, you can be Buddha too with no oxygen, if you open to no oxygen, which is not that easy as you know, but you can learn it, and I can learn

[44:04]

it, and you can learn it with my help, and everybody else's help, and I can learn it with your help. That's why first we open to everybody's help, then we open to like no oxygen, no food, lots of pain, shame, yeah, right, open to it. First, before you try to deal with it, if you go at things, I'll take care of it now and later I'll open, if you go at things without being open, it doesn't mean it's always going to be really, really, really bad, but it'll just always be never as good as it can be, if you would open, and sometimes it really is really, really bad, because you're so closed, because I'm so closed, because I think I don't have time to open to what's happening, I just got to like take care of what I think it is, as being what it is. I'm not going to open to the possibility that who I think you are isn't actually who you are, I'm not going to open to that, like

[45:07]

it's too much, I don't have time for that, I've got to like relate to you now the way I think you are. Okay, I'll open to that, I'll toast to that. Here, here's to you not opening, let's drink a glass of water to that, and actually let me pour water on your head to that. Let me sprinkle you with Buddha's compassion to help you snap out of being such an uptight little critter, and let you tell me if you think I'm being close to your closeness. Am I? Yes you are, okay, sorry. Sometimes it's not that easy. We have to take care of ourselves so that, to the extent, to be aware of what's going on with ourselves so that we can use ourselves to help others. We have to be aware of ourselves as not something we make ourselves

[46:11]

in order to open to others who make us. To sit upright, opening to this embracing and sustaining all beings and being embraced by and sustained by all beings, and practice in that context. And then the ancestor also says, when you impress upon your actions of body, speech, and mind, this Buddha mudra, this Buddha shape, what's the Buddha shape? It's the shape of enlightenment. You impress the shape of enlightenment upon your activities as you speak. You put the seal of Buddha on

[47:20]

your speech. Namely, you spoke to embrace all beings, and you speak to being supported by all beings. When you walk, you walk to embrace and sustain all beings, and you walk through being embraced and sustained by all beings. When you think, you think as embracing all beings, and you think being embraced and sustained by all beings. When you are that way, the whole phenomenal world becomes this shape, and the entire sky turns into enlightenment. When you are that way, you are receiving Buddha's guidance. You have opened to Buddha's guidance, and the whole world becomes Buddha's guidance. It already is, but when you open to this and let this impress you

[48:26]

and let this impress everyone you meet, then the entire world realizes the same Buddha shape, the same interdependence, the same thank you very much for everything you give me, and I give you everything I am, and the entire sky turns into enlightenment. However, as they go on to say, this way that you're helping everyone and everyone's helping you is inconceivable, because you're not outside of it. It's not out there to see. It's totally what you are together with everyone. You're receiving Buddha's guidance. It's inconceivable, inconceivably helped by Buddha's guidance, and as we're inconceivably helped by Buddha's guidance, this guidance resonates off us to everyone else, and then everyone who is receiving it, it resonates back to us. This is where we actually live. It's a matter of practicing it. It's already going on, which is great, which is inconceivably wonderful.

[49:32]

It's wonderful beyond measure. It's Buddha. It's enlightenment. It's peace and harmony with the way the universe is, but if we don't practice it, we don't get it as much as we could if we practiced, and what's the practice? Sit upright and open your mind to this teaching, and then open your mind by this teaching which tells you how all the support you have, and with all that support, with you having all that support and with you giving that support, and again, if I don't feel that support, if I give it more, I feel it more, and if I feel it more, I give it more. If I feel it and I don't feel myself giving it, I don't feel it enough, and if I want to, so it's like that. With this support, open to the world. But how this works is really, basically, in this full scale, it's like it's inconceivable

[50:42]

because if you can recognize it, that's not it, because it, this relationship is it, is what it is. It's not something you can put, like, out there as an object. So this probably, you know, it's too much for me to say, but I'm just going to put it out there. You can get the tape if you want to. So it's sometimes helpful to present this process in maybe four levels. The most basic level is actually the inconceivable or the unconscious, imperceptible request, and the unconscious or imperceptible response. That's maybe the most basic level, because that's going on with everybody.

[51:42]

Even advanced practitioners are unconsciously calling out to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and all beings for help. Even advanced practitioners are somewhat unconscious of how, the full scale of how they're calling out to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to come, and also they're somewhat unconscious about how they are embracing and sustaining the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who are calling to them. Even advanced practitioners miss part of it. And some people, as you know, by the end of this sentence you'll know, some people do not think that they are calling out to Buddha. They're totally unconscious that they're saying, Buddha, please come and be with me. They're not conscious of it. If you'd say, if you asked them, are you calling out to Buddha for assistance? They would say, no, I don't think so, or, what?

[52:44]

I'm an atheist. I don't call out to Buddha. And when an atheist says, I'm an atheist, I don't call out to Buddha, Buddha goes, oh, sweetie, I'm totally there with you and open to you not calling out to me. I got that loud and clear. I hate Buddha is totally a call to Buddha. I never think of Buddha as a call to everything you do, brushing your teeth, inhaling and exhaling, metabolizing glucose, no matter what you do, you're always, I'm always asking Buddha to come and be with me because I'm asking reality to be realized. I'm always doing that, never stop, and I say to you, you never do, and nobody does. Everybody's calling for the assistance which they're already receiving. And Buddhas never hesitate, Bodhisattvas, of course, never hesitate, and even people

[53:51]

who aren't enlightened don't hesitate to respond. This is the fundamental situation of the world. We're calling out, and we're being responded to. Other people are calling out, and we're responding to them. That's the fundamental thing, and it's mostly for most people, and quite a bit even for advanced practitioners, unconscious. Next level is, you may become aware, or someone may be aware, or we may be able to see, that although our request is unconscious, there is a conscious discernible response. The next level, and these two middle levels can be reversed, the next level, which is not necessarily next in time, is you sometimes can see your request, but you don't see the

[54:55]

response. You can feel, I'm actually asking Buddha for help, and I don't see it coming. I'm actually interested in the Buddha Dharma, but I don't see a teacher. And the next level is, you sometimes can feel, I really want to practice, I really want to receive Buddha's guidance, and I am receiving it. And this is, I know sometimes people say, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, I asked, and it's happening. I got just what I most wanted in life, I'm happy, and I love all beings, etc. I'm totally grateful for this life. I am leaping beyond this life, and now I really have this life. I see that I'm requesting all the Buddhas, all the Buddhas, all the Bodhisattvas and

[56:01]

all beings to embrace and sustain me, and I'm totally, I'm totally nothing but doing that with them. I see it, and I see their response to that. I see it. And I also understand there's other phases I've been through, and maybe will go through again, where I'm more or less, where I'm less aware than I am now. And people, I know many people who have had moments like this, and then a little while later they can't see it anymore, and they know they can't see it, and they can articulate that, and sometimes they don't even know they can't see it, but they're articulating it. So here's a story which I heard, which I think is, it's a nice, simple, just a kind of, not super fantastic, just kind of like ordinary story of this man who lived in Japan, he had a couple of kids, I think one of his kids was not feeling well, and he thought, let's have an outing. And he lived near, in a part of Japan that has lots of Buddhist temples, and so he took

[57:06]

his kids to a Buddhist temple, because they have nice gardens, and it was, I guess, a pleasant day, and they went there to have a nice date. And I don't know, it just happened that the abbot of the temple saw them and said, do you want to have some tea? And they said fine, they had tea, and had a nice meeting, and as they were leaving, the abbot gave the father a present. He was given a present, and the present he was given was a Buddhist scripture. Buddhism sometimes, from India, and we still say that now in the West, we call our scriptures sutras, and I think I just want to play on that word a little bit, sutra, sutra is related

[58:12]

to suture, which means thread. And so, not just in Buddhism, but in India just in general, for sacred texts they use the word sutra for their sacred texts, which means the thread that runs through the sutra, they bind the sutra pages with thread, it's a thread, but it's also the thread that runs through the text, and in China they have the same word, from before Buddhism came they used the word jing, and jing means thread, it means scripture, but it's the thread that runs through the woodblocks. So both in India and China they use the word thread for their sacred texts, and both in India and China they mean the thread that runs through the text, the point of the text, this point of our life, the thread that runs through our life. So the Buddha gives the man the thread, I mean, the abbot gives the man the thread. At that time, at that time the man did not think he went to the temple to request the

[59:27]

thread, he thought he went there for an outing with his kids, he didn't say, I'm going to go and get the thread, I'm going to ask for the thread, maybe he'll give it to me, no, he didn't think that, he thought, I'm having an outing, nice abbot, gives me a thread, gives me a book, usual thing, these guys pass out threads, just the usual thing, it has nothing to do with me, he's just a nice guy who passes out threads because he's a thread passer-outer, just doing his job, I didn't ask him to do his job, but he did his job, so what? Okay, so that's that, but in fact the abbot did give him the thread, and the reason why he gave him the thread is because he asked for it, but he wasn't aware that he asked, and he wasn't aware that he got the thread, he just thought he went to the temple and the guy gave him a book. Unconscious that he just went through the point of the drama of our life, is that we're

[60:28]

asking Buddha for the thread, and Buddha gives us the thread every moment. Can I have the thread? Here. Can I have the thread? Here. Can I have the thread of the point? Can I have life, the meaning of life, along with the rest of life? I know I've got inhaling and exhaling and stuff like that, can I have the thread too that runs through all this, the kind of like, well, sure, here it is, and I'm always asking for it. Humans are kind of like unbelievably greedy. We not only want to live, but we want the meaning of life too, always, every moment. Can I have vanilla chocolate and the meaning of vanilla chocolate? Can I have the thread that runs through ice cream and non-ice cream? Sure. Always. You ask and always you receive. Question about practicing. This guy was not practicing yet. He didn't have a clue that he went there to request this thread and he got it. I can see it, you can see it, he didn't see it.

[61:31]

But this is the basic level that's always going on. So he goes home, takes the thread with him. And then he's got the thread in his hand, so what does he do with it? I don't know, throw it in the garbage? Well, maybe that's a bit much. Because he was a nice guy. I'll put it on our altar. He's got an altar, a family shrine. So he puts it on the family shrine altar. There was their request and there was their response. But that response he can kind of see a little bit. We can see it. He put it on the altar, he didn't throw it in the garbage. He didn't put it with his other books, he put it on the altar. He still doesn't know he asked for it. He still doesn't know he wants to read it. He still doesn't know he's interested in it. He still doesn't know that this thread is the main point of his life that he just received and has in his hand.

[62:33]

But it's there. He's got it, he received it, and he puts it on the altar. Then a couple of years later, he just says, I wonder what's in that thread. I wonder what's in that book. So he goes and opens it. And it's a teaching about how to be a good parent. Seems like maybe the abbot's got these kids, so he gave them a book about how to be a good father. Maybe, who knows? Anyway, it's inconceivable. There's the thread. So he reads it, and he was deeply impressed. It was really a great teaching about how to be a father or a mother or a caregiver, a great teaching from the Buddha. He was deeply impressed. And then from that deep impression, he actually started to study it. He got commentaries on the scripture, and he really studied it thoroughly

[63:39]

and became more and more impressed by what a wonderful teaching it was and wanted to practice it in his everyday life. Now he can see, finally, his motivation. He can see he desires, he wants to receive the Buddha's teaching. He loves the Buddha's teaching, and he wants to receive it more and more. But he still doesn't quite see that the Buddha's there in the room with him. And I know a lot of people like that. They've received, the Dharma has come to them, they've studied it, they're deep, they love it, and now they say, I want a teacher, and they don't see a teacher. And I often say, the important thing is that you want the teacher, that you care enough about the Buddha Dharma that you want the teacher. And as they say, when you're ready, the teacher will appear. Really, the teacher is already there. We're just not ready, or we don't like the look of the teacher that's there. You know, it's a teacher, yeah, but not...

[64:41]

It's a nice face, it's a nice smile, but it's not the smile. But it's all right with me. Anyway, he still didn't see the teacher, and a lot of people who come to Zen Center are that phase where they love the Dharma, but they can't yet see that the Buddha is in their face all day long. I see a lot of faces, but those aren't the Buddha face. I want some other face. Okay, well, the point is that you want that face, that's the important thing. You know that you love the thread, and you want the teacher, which has been there all along, but you don't see it. So then he goes back to the abbot, and so now he has... he wants to study the Dharma, he wants to study the thread, he wants to practice the thread, and he wants to do it with the abbot. So on this human scale, he enacted all four levels of this communion.

[65:47]

So we're more or less aware of it off and on. It's always going on, we're more or less aware of it, and of course most aware when we feel like... Every breath I take is for all beings. Every breath is an expression that I want to receive and hear and understand the Dharma, and I want all beings to receive and hear and practice the Dharma. That's the way it is all the time? Yeah. And they're doing it, in different ways, but they're doing it. I'm getting their response. This is the totally conscious level, which goes on forever, and then there's less conscious levels, but the actual practice is occurring in this situation, this communion which is going on. And the more we're aware of it, the more we're happily realizing,

[66:51]

and the better we can demonstrate by our action that we understand it. So, yeah, that was a lot, but I just want to get that off my chest. And then I'm also supposed to do a grandson story, right? After the talks, I give these talks, people say, I really like the story about your grandson. Tell more of those. I have to tell one. So the recent one was, he says, Granddaddy, you know, they have The Incredibles out now, this movie, The Incredibles, about this family that has superpowers. So he says, Granddaddy, what's your favorite superpower? Usually he says, what's your favorite color? What's your favorite animal? But he says, what's your favorite animal? And then he asks... This is going to be more than one story. Then he asks... He tells me what kind of animal I can say. What's your favorite animal that starts with a T and lives in this part of the world and doesn't, you know, do that?

[67:56]

So in other words, what's your favorite animal? Can you guess the animal? I'm telling you it to be. But this case, he didn't so highly structure the situation. He just says, what's your favorite superpower? And I said, to be able to help people be at peace and harmony. And he said, like Martin Luther King? And I said, yeah, right, like that. I'd like to have that superpower. He says, what's another superpower you want? I said, I would like everybody to be free of fear. And he said, oh. He said, you want to know what my superpower is? And I said, yeah. He said, my favorite superpower is to make things in my hands invisible. And then also people say, I like the song, so here's a song. But this song, I'm sorry. The one song which would apply somewhat is,

[69:03]

You'll Never Walk Alone. And then the two more that I do often. One is kind of, how does it go? Oh, we ain't got a barrel of money. Maybe we're ragged and funny. But we travel along singing our song. Side by side. That applies, right? Ain't got a barrel of money, okay. Ragged and funny, fine. Don't forget the side by side. Traveling along together. And not just with one other person. But with all the Buddhas. Buddhas don't have necessarily barrels of money. And they're actually sometimes ragged and funny. Sometimes Buddhas wear rags. But they'll travel along singing a song with you, side by side.

[70:09]

Will you travel with them? Or will you let go of Buddha's hand? Say, later Buddha, I got better things to do than hold hands with you. Sorry. No, why not just hold hands with Buddha? Hold hands with Buddha and walk through birth and death. That's what Buddhas are here for. Is to take your hand on both hands and both feet and all your eyelashes and walk with you through birth and death. They're reaching out to you. You're reaching out to them. How about practicing it? I know it's hard to remember, but that's the true path of enlightenment. I say. Just me. Now leap beyond that if you wish. May our intention fully extend to every being and place. May the true merit of the Dharma just break.

[71:17]

Yes. I know that all beings help you in going to Argentina in February. Would you tell us about your experience in Argentina? I went to Argentina in March. I went to Buenos Aires. I was in Buenos Aires the whole time. I didn't see the vast, the vast land of Argentina, just the city, which is also vast. And I guess my basic feeling was I was kind of humbled by what a deep tradition the tango music and tango dance is. And I really appreciate how deep it is. And even though only going on for a hundred years,

[72:24]

it's still a very deep tradition. It's wonderful how, what a wonderful art they have there in that city. In the country it was large, but particularly in that city. So I've always wanted to go to South America, so I felt good that I finally got there. How long did you stay? Seventeen days. Is there anything else you want to bring up? Yes. I have a question as to when we pass on to the next generation. Where do we go? I think basically we go, we become the whole universe. We become other people's breath.

[73:27]

We become worms. We become flowers. And, yeah, I think that's what happens. How is that determined? Is there a determination that's made? By many causes and conditions. And if someone had Buddha eyes, they could see how it happens, but it's kind of impersonal how it happens. How the person becomes, you know, not the person anymore is impersonal. And everything we do, however, with our life has an influence on how it goes. You're welcome. Yes. Love your lecture.

[74:29]

I'd like to amplify a little bit on the etymology of the word sutra. It's a beautiful word. Probably forget suture. But before books, where you have the thread, metaphorically, you might have had a beaded thread. In other words, people from 2,500 years ago or 2,300 years ago, in the case of Patanjali Yoga Sutra, which contains 195 or so afferences, the metaphor was a beaded thread. Uh-huh, yeah. A thread that runs through all the different beads. People who are looking for an interesting book to read about the unconscious level, the first of the four levels. There's a book out right now called Blink, D-L-I-N-K, written by a very clever, skillful science writer

[75:34]

who has written for the likes of the Washington Post and the New Yorker magazine, called Malcolm Gladden, a very interesting book of subtleties. The first seven seconds of beating somebody, for example. Cool. And... That's about it. Oh, I did have a question. Is he the guy that talks about how things reach a certain... Yeah, tipping point. Written in the year 2000. Yeah, he was talking about, like, crime rate got so bad in New York, and suddenly it tipped, and now New York is one of the safest cities. That same guy? Yes, it is. And in that book, he writes about epidemics of all kinds, not necessarily medical epidemics, but the way IVs are transmitted.

[76:35]

Beautiful book. As to your element about receiving at Hallelujah and the greed of us, the waterfront philosopher from San Francisco, called Eric Hoffer, one time said, we can never get enough of what we don't really need. But I was hoping you could amplify it for me. I missed the fourth point of the four levels, which is to say the third level was the receiving of Hallelujah. No, it's the fourth level. Oh, that's the fourth level? Yeah. Well, then I must have missed the third level. The third level, which, like I said, a lot of people... I meet a lot of people like that. They're really... Especially when I travel around the world, I meet people who really want to practice the Buddha Dharma. They're really sincere, they're really inspired to study and practice, but they can't see a teacher, you know, where they live. If they lived in...

[77:37]

Maybe they think I'm a teacher, but I live in San Francisco, so they only see me once a year. They say, where are the teachers around here? I can't see them. And I say, well, I'm not saying there aren't or there are, but it's a question of whether you can see them. The important thing is you want a teacher. That's the great thing. Some people are like... Even when I was living at the same time when Suzuki Roshi was living, I couldn't believe, you know, he was trying to teach people and some people didn't have time for him. Now, you know, people think, oh, God studied with Suzuki Roshi. How wonderful, you know. No one would miss that, right? But I saw people who just sort of said, well, later, Suzuki Roshi, you know. And he really wanted to give something to them. I could see that. He even told me. They weren't interested. Couldn't believe it. It's like sitting here with this gift for people and they wanted to go to the movies or something instead.

[78:38]

Well, okay. But anyway, a lot of people, if Buddha was living down the block, they wouldn't know. But they're really interested in Buddhism. And I just say, if you really want a teacher, that's the important thing. Eventually you'll find one. That's the, you feel your intention, you feel your motivation, you feel your request, but you don't see a teacher. You don't see somebody who's guiding you, helping you. That's the third stage. But third also could be the second. You know, you could have the motivation but not find the teacher. And that could be followed by, well, now I have the teacher but I'm not interested. And that happens too sometimes. With me too, you know. I really appreciate Siddharishi,

[79:41]

but sometimes I couldn't stand... It wasn't that I wasn't interested, it's just I couldn't stand it. I couldn't feel the willingness to really be there. I wanted to withdraw, because it was too intense. And in a sense, that's our normal state, is that we partly can't stand to face reality. We just feel it's too intense. So we want to just go off to the side, go to McDonald's or something, for a little while. I'll be back later. Bettina? Yeah, perhaps you just answered to some extent, but I felt your talk was really helpful, because I felt this week, in what's annoying, is that to get into this space of what I would call disconnect, or feeling separate. And so my question was to ask you,

[80:45]

in a practical sense, how to get back to that connection, feeling connection. But maybe you just answered it by saying... Maybe I answered it... Maybe that is the answer. It's maybe not wanting to face life. It's too overwhelming, and so you go into disconnect. But then it feels so horrible. Right? So then open to the feeling of horrible. The feeling of horrible, however, is not as bad as the feeling of connection. It's not as difficult. The feeling of connection, of course, is totally what we want, but it's much harder to open to it. Feeling terrible is pretty bad, and it's hard to open to it. But it's easier to open to feeling terrible than to feel the totality of what we are. So you warm up. We warm up on the little terribles. So practice patience with terrible this,

[81:48]

terrible that, terrible pain, terrible insult, terrible loss, terrible gain. We warm up on the little terribles, and then finally we have the ability to face the big wonder, which is like the highest patience is called the acceptance that nothing is happening. That what's happening, it doesn't really happen. It is, but it doesn't like happen and not happen. That's very difficult for us to stand. So you warm up to it with the little pains. They're preparation for the big shock of reality, which we've had tastes of, and that was nice, it's great, but again, can I have some sugar now? McDonald's, just a little piece of, can I have a little chunk of hamburger, please? Ah, good. So I feel bad that I lost it, but it's familiar anyway. Yes? I'm wondering if you can speak about this process

[82:50]

in terms of loneliness and relationships. Well, loneliness and relationship? Mostly. Like? I was thinking about that stage where you're searching for the teacher, and you can't see that, and the same sense in our culture, it's pretty big to search for love and companionship. Yes. And talk about opening up first. Well, first, what I'm suggesting first is invite Buddha's love. Now, you know, some people may not agree that they want to give you their love, but of course Buddha wants to give you love. So you're open to that. The fact that an enlightened being, of course, would totally be devoted to you. So you're open to that, and also you're open to giving that. So you request those enlightened beings

[83:52]

to come and be with you. You invite them to be present with you, and also you start opening up to or considering opening, being supportive of them. When you feel this support, then you can really open up, beyond even, like, opening to love. You can open to, like, the way love really is. But first of all, open to that Buddhas and all bodhisattvas and all beings are supporting to you. Open to that, think about that, until you feel more and more like, yeah, I think I can walk down the street feeling like that, including that people are being rude to me. You know, and even if they look like they're being rude, and if I ask them, they say, yes, I am being rude to you, and I like being rude to you, and you deserve me being rude to you. And, you really mean that? Yes, I do. And you hate me? Yes, I hate you. And then try to see, that's embracing and sustaining me.

[84:55]

I'm standing here alive and well, being hated. And this person who hates me is supporting me as much as a person who loves me. Everybody's supporting me in different ways, basically together. They're all working together for my enlightenment, and I'm working for theirs. So, I meditate on that until I really feel like that's where I live. And then I can open to, like, leaping beyond that, that there really isn't, there really isn't anything to get stuck in. So you leap behind that, and then you leap beyond it, and then you wind up back in it again. But now where are you? You're back in being embraced and sustained by everybody, everybody embracing and sustaining, you embracing and sustaining everybody, you're working together, and then leap beyond that again by opening to, that the situation is not even the way it appears, but you have to open to the way it appears before you can leap beyond the way it appears.

[85:57]

But in order to face that openness and that leaping, you have to feel pretty secure. If we feel insecure, we're going to tense up and hold on, and we may survive, but we're not going to have much of an, we're not going to have a very enjoyable experience because we're like, I don't want this experience. Some people, like, go out of their way to go to an amusement park and go on the roller coaster, and then they get down in a curve up in a ball on the roller coaster. It's too much. They wanted to have something which would push them to the limits, and then they got to the limit, and they shrunk back. So you didn't, like, go, okay, here we go on the roller coaster. Okay, whoa. Oh, yeah! I'm embraced and sustained by this technology and by this engineering, and here it goes, and all of this is... Get the seatbelt real tight, you know. Okay, now it's...

[86:58]

Can I open up now? No? Okay, hold on to Buddha's hands, okay? Now can you open? Okay. I see you, Lee. I see you. I'll be right with you. Unless you want to keep your hand up in the air. Oh, great. So anyway, I went to Disneyland with my daughter, and she was, you know, she was tall enough to go on Space Mountain. You had to be a certain height. So she got to ride on Space Mountain, which she wanted to go on. We go on Space Mountain, and she spends, you know, her... She's down here the whole ride, you know. Afterwards, she says... She was like 7 or 8. She said, They shouldn't let kids under 15 ride on this thing. So anyway, we want to open, but sometimes it's too much. You know, accept that, but gradually we can open to it. Lee, did you just...

[87:58]

Did you want to say anything besides exercise? Yes. Okay. Okay. This is me, afraid. The second question you talked a lot about... Can we handle that one first before I forget it? Sitting upright, in one sense, is... There's two things I'll say about it now, rather than a hundred, okay? I'll just take two out of the hundred. The first one is that sitting upright, our body feels more secure, more ready to die. We're always a little bit scared of dying,

[89:04]

but when you're upright, you're more like... Okay, Lee, we're going to die in a few minutes. Okay, Lee? And you say, Really? Yes. Okay, now we get ourselves in the position where we're most ready to die. Okay? I'm ready. It's like that. And then you feel kind of secure. We're going to die, but I'm kind of like, Okay, I'm not like trying to... Can we get it over with now? It's going to be soon, but we can't say exactly when. No, not later, please. Not later, not sooner. Just now. And that's the most comfortable way to be, so you feel more secure and you can open. Another meaning of being upright is basically what I just said, that you give up being concerned about past and future. You give up grasping things.

[90:05]

That's what I mean by being upright. Then you're ready to enter the realm of the Buddhas. But it doesn't have to be necessarily sitting cross-legged in a zendo. It's that kind of presence. That's what we mean by upright, because some people are sitting in a zendo, but they're shrinking away from what's happening or they're thinking about what's going to happen next. They're not really sitting upright then. Does that make sense? Both, yes. And in some sense, most importantly, figuratively. The upright posture is a ritual to express this kind of presence, which is called the gate into the realm that I was talking about today. It's the way to enter the realm of how we're all working together. But if you enter that realm and you're kind of leaning into the future or leaning into the past, you can't stand it. It's too much. Like you think,

[91:07]

I wonder how much longer this is going to go on. I wonder how long this intensity is going to continue. Well, that's too much. But if you stay present, it is your life, so you can live it. But multiply your life times two, you can't. Or subtract something, you can't. That's what upright means. And the posture is kind of a way to say, oh yeah, what am I doing here? Oh yeah. It's like ritually, physically expressing this attitude. And the attitude expresses itself physically. So the body needs to say, yes, I'm doing, I'm present. But again, we can go on about this for a long time, but that's just a short thing about the posture. And your second question? You were talking a lot about it being inconceivable. You used the word by the court at the end of your lecture.

[92:11]

Were you saying it's inconceivable for the average person to imagine that in effect we're all in this together, we're all walking together, and therefore war is going to be so forth? Is that what you were talking about? You've used the word inconceivable many times. But we inherently, is it inherently inconceivable for us to imagine all being together, all being one? It's inherently impossible to conceive of our inconceivable relationship. Because our relationship, your relationship with me is not basically conceptual. Your relationship with me is basically your relationship with me, and we have concepts of it. But my concept of my relationship with you is not my relationship with you, as you would be happy to demonstrate. What I think our relationship is, is not our relationship.

[93:13]

And what you think our relationship is, is not our relationship. And if I tell you my idea, you're probably willing to say, well, that's not it. That's just your idea. And you may still think that your idea is it, but if you ask me, I'd say, no, that's not it, Lee. But both of us could admit we both have ideas of our relationship, but our relationship is free. The actuality, the enlightened actuality of our relationship leaps beyond our ideas of it. But we still have ideas of it, that's part of it. But our ideas are part of our relationship, not our relationship. So our actual relationship cannot be grasped by concepts. And if we would take a break from concepts for a little while, our relationship would not deteriorate at all. It would just be, now we have a relationship where both of us have temporarily not been grasping concepts.

[94:15]

Sometimes the way to do that in practice is you and I can both use our conceptual equipment to think about some other kinds of things.

[94:22]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ