the statement that seeing that all five aggregates are empty of any kind of a self, that this seeing relieves all suffering and distress, how that liberation from suffering and distress occurs in this wisdom, in this vision, How that goes is beyond anybody's idea. It's inconceivable. But this is the proposal. The proposal is given in conceivable form, namely words. But those words are, for example, part of the five aggregates, and they don't have a self. And seeing that the words that tell you, that seeing the words truly liberates all beings, and seeing that those words are empty, liberates all beings, relieves all suffering and distress.

[01:21]

Last week, somebody said something like, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I keep coming back because you seem to know what you're talking about. If someone really has no idea about what I'm talking about, that would relieve all suffering and distress. And I say that as though I knew what I was talking about. And I do know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about words. And I know that I am. And knowing that I am, maybe you'll come back and hear me say some more words, which are just that. So I know. that everything I say, again, the person said, I think you know what you're talking about.

[02:28]

I do know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about words. And if I think I'm talking about more than words, then you might be nice to me and still come back and spend time with me. But really, really we should spend time with people we should make friends with people who have made friends with their words and if you make friends with your words you realize that what you're talking about when you use words is nothing more than words you should make friends with people like that who have made friends with words and they've also made friends with you and they also understand that you are nothing in addition to words.

[03:28]

That's a really good friend. They listen to your words, they see you, and they realize that what they hear and what they see is nothing more than words. Or you could say nothing more than ideas. And last week you weren't here, as far as I could tell, Vida. But I referred to the conversation the week before that I was having with you. And I'd like to say again, which is difficult to understand, whether you have an idea about this or not, still what I'm suggesting is that the meaning of things is words. But the meaning of words is not things.

[04:30]

The meaning of words is other words. I would also suggest, as some poets say, that words are waiting, excuse me, that all creation, all creatures, all creatures are waiting for words to give them meaning. Creatures don't come with meaning. They come with creation. And to the extent that creatures are creation, creatures are free of suffering. But creatures want meaning, so they call out. And they wait for and they get words. And then they sometimes think that the words which give them meaning are what they are. But it's not so. And some of you have heard this story before.

[05:34]

It's a story from a movie. And then I think the movie was called The Miracle Worker. Did you ever see it? It's about Helen Keller and Ann Sullivan. Did you see the movie? It's also a play, I think. And at one point, which I would call the crisis, is when Ann and Helen are working with some water And at some point Anne says, the meaning of this is a word. The meaning of this is a word. And that I agree with. That's Buddha Dharma. The meaning of this is a word. But then Anne said something which I don't agree with.

[06:40]

She said, and the meaning of the word is this. The word refers to this, but this is not the meaning of the word. The meaning of the word is other words. I don't know if Ann Sullivan actually said that, but in the movie I disagreed with the second part of what she said. and part of the practice which realizes this liberation. So Avalokiteshvara and other bodhisattvas and buddhas have already realized perfect wisdom which liberates all beings and they've already realized it and they're continuing to realize it right now we are living in the middle of the relief of all suffering and distress but unless people practice they do not realize the liberation we're moving in it all the time but if we don't practice we don't see it

[08:05]

So we have to practice perfect wisdom to realize the perfect wisdom. The non-duality of awakened people and non-awakened people means that the enlightenment of the awakened people is the same as the enlightenment of the non-awakened people. But if the non-awakened people do not practice, they don't realize it. And the awakened people understand that, that illusion. We recited some things earlier. That's a practice. I don't know what level of devotion was present in the recitation. I don't know how to measure it.

[09:15]

But that is a practice. It's of reciting perfect wisdom's texts and paying homage to perfect wisdom is a practice which those who have realized perfect wisdom practice. The ones who have realized perfect wisdom focus on perfect wisdom. It's not like they realize it and then forget about it. Those who have realized the Buddha body focus on the Buddha body and recollect the Buddha body. People who have realized perfect wisdom recollect perfect wisdom. We just recollected perfect wisdom a little while ago. And I just did it again just now. Recall. Say it again. Think of it again.

[10:18]

We are already living in the middle of reality. We are already living in the true body of Buddha. The true body of Buddha is that we are not separate from awakened people. and we are not separate from each other. Your practice, Buddha's practice, my practice are the same practice. Buddha does not have a different practice from us. And so we can recall that. And when we do the words, we realize the words refer to it, but the meaning that the words have is not because of what they refer to, but because of other words. That mindfulness is part of what helps us practice non-duality practice.

[11:32]

And the practice of non-duality realizes the reality of non-duality. So the part of creation is that creation waits to have meaning. It waits to have meaning. Part of creation is that creation waits for meaning. Creation waits for some imputation, some concept to be placed on it.

[12:35]

Without putting a concept on creation, creation doesn't have the meaning that would come with the imposition of the concept and the word. So when we use words and when we have meanings, it is recommended that we do not neglect cause and effect. That we do not turn away from cause and effect. So anything you see, anything you hear is an opportunity to meditate on cause and effect. Meditate on cause and effect as it can be spoken about and meditate on cause and effect which is inexpressible.

[13:50]

the bodhisattva listens to the cries of the world again and again, tries to develop, tries to be devoted to listen to the cries of the world, one's own, other people's. And then, if you're focused on that, if you also look at all the living beings, if you're focused on that, then The next thing would be to not ignore cause and effect, to not obscure it. How do you do that? How do you meditate? Well, one way is you remember the words, study cause and effect. Don't ignore it. So now I see somebody raise her hand, I'm observing, and I just mentioned that before she speaks, I say, my job is to not ignore cause and effect now.

[15:17]

In this nodding of the head. In hearing, okay, that's my job. Please speak, please speak. What? What? And you have a question. She says she needs a clarification and I need to not obscure cause and effect if I want to be practicing perfect wisdom. Did you say the reason for talking falls away? Well, you said the reason, but can I say something? It depends on the person for whom this meditation is their practice.

[16:22]

If that person is practicing for the welfare of all beings, the reason for speaking does not drop away. Because they want to speak in order to help people. And when this all drops away, now they can do what they've always wanted to do. They can speak from realizing emptiness or realizing that the way things are happening is inconceivable. realizing that the way things are happening is inconceivable, you're just about ready to realize that the way things are is ungraspable. And when you open to those things, now what you wanted to do all along was to speak in a way that would liberate beings from suffering. Now you can do it. The reason for speaking does not drop away. The reason for speaking is what takes you to the place to have something helpful to say.

[17:27]

The idle talk falls away. The idle talk falls away, yeah. And also any idea of non-idle talk falls away. In emptiness, you have no idea of idle talk or helpful talk. And in that emptiness, in realizing that, you have no idea of anything. But you get to know idea of anything by listening to the teaching that anything you have is just an idea. You do get to have stuff, not in emptiness, but in form you get to have stuff, in feelings you get to have stuff, in various emotions you get to have stuff, in various ideas, of course, you get to have stuff. But all these things that you get to have are just ideas. That teaching takes you to realize the place where there are no ideas.

[18:30]

And that's the place where beings are liberated, and then from that place of deliberation, liberating words come. And you wanted to give those liberating words all along, but you have to go to that place in order to bring out those words. You can still help people before you go to that place, but the help is not liberating unless it comes from the place of liberation. So some people actually, some Zen teachers say, don't say anything until you get there. Just shut up and go there. They just keep sending their students back there. But they tell them to shut up after they say something. They say something and say, nah, shut up and go back there. Or they say something and say, you didn't get there yet. Try again to go to the place beyond words and then come back and talk to me.

[19:36]

This is bodhisattva training. So that's what I'm trying to do here in this class. I'm trying to train to go to the place where there's no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, go to the place of non-imaginative wisdom, non-conceptual wisdom. Go to that place. And one of the ways to go there could be just to, everything you look at, just remember it's empty, but maybe better to start with, before you get into that it's empty, get into everything you see is a creation. everything you see is a dependent co-arising. And we do not see how what we're looking at has dependently co-arisen. I cannot see how this Justin is created. I cannot. But I know that the teaching says he was created, he is created, he is created moment by moment.

[20:45]

He is an inconceivable fruit of many causes. The teaching also says he does not cause himself. He's not self-caused. He's caused by me and all of you and all of the things he's ever done make this person. But I can't see that. So I'm meditating on something inconceivable but on the side of something has been produced here. This is a fruit of causes. And I'm opening to that this causal process is inconceivable and so is the ultimate way it is, which is that it's ungraspable and has no self. That's him, that's everything about me, that's all my thoughts, and so on. Devotion to this seems to be the path to the awakened people, and the awakened people continue to be devoted to this.

[21:52]

And they also keep recollecting it, recollecting it. Yes? Yeah, or all creatures. All creation is a little bit different from each creature. Yeah, but I feel like that's an idea. That's what it is. And it's a nice idea. That's another idea, that it's nice. It's engaging as an idea. But if I would imagine myself as a creature, in the sense that I think you're referring to it, I would hope I wouldn't.

[22:57]

I hear you would hope that you wouldn't be waiting. I could hear that as saying Lois hopes to be a perfect wisdom person. Perfect wisdom does not wait to have words give her meaning. She does not wait for that. And then she uses words to help other people who are waiting for words to give them meaning. Do you know of some people who are waiting for some words to give them meaning? Have you ever met anybody like that? Good boy. Good girl. Good job. You know, this is important stuff. Good job. I remember one time, Suzuki Roshi said to me, good job. That was important. Yeah, he said to me after a session one time, he said, good job. I was the Ino. He said, good job. That was important.

[24:04]

Was I waiting for that? I don't know. But it did give me some meaning. But that wasn't the main thing he's trying to do for me. Dick? Non-imaginative wisdom? The perfection of wisdom? Right. I can't imagine that place. So, I mean, there's more of an idea, some sense of it.

[25:09]

I mean, there's some loosening of words and ideas sometimes, but I have some sense of where that's not being hit, but... But in some sense I feel like I've kept on practicing. That place of, this is what I learned, it's impossible. How I experience things is what works much better, how it's impossible to experience it in that place. So consciousness is a place where we know stuff. That's where we know stuff. That's a part of our life where we know stuff, where somebody knows something.

[26:18]

and also where there might be a very strong habit to strongly adhere to what is known as something other than an idea. Something more than just an idea that's being grasped in this little space of knowing. But then teachings can come in there to that realm where the currency is language and tell us that strongly adhering to these ideas is a source of suffering. Strongly adhering to the words that give meaning to our experience, strongly adhering so that we can know, strongly adhering to words so that we can know creation. But the way you know creation is by taking it to be something that it's not. But the thing you take it to be, you can know.

[27:23]

Creation itself, you cannot know. And so we say, well, I understand I can't know creation, so I'll just take this other thing which I can know and call that creation. Holding to that is suffering, is affliction. Now teaching comes up and says, if you actually can start by kind of loosening up a little bit, That might be helpful. Just consider the possibility of not strongly adhering. And maybe there could be a moment of not strongly adhering so much. And then you also notice, when I don't strongly adhere as much, then I don't know as much. And actually, I can kind of see that if I didn't adhere strongly at all, I wouldn't know anything. And I could maybe warm up to that a little bit. and maybe even think about completely not adhering to what these images are, and not knowing anything, but then opening to the thing which I can't know without limiting it by words, but I can open to intimacy and realization of it.

[28:35]

So this is part of the process of getting ready for perfect wisdom, getting ready for giving up, dropping, all ideas not pushing them away just letting go of them when you let go of ideas you also let go of meaning which is hard but then with encouragement you might be told if you let go of adhering to these ideas as something more than ideas you will not No harm will come to you. I will hold your hand and pull you back if you need to be brought back. So this is a story about that. Laurie? And then Charlie?

[29:37]

What I'm hearing you say is while you're talking and using words, you're trying to remember that they're not referring to anything. For example, the word we several times in what you're saying. When I hear the word we, I think you mean the people in this room. You think that, yeah? Yeah. And I might mean actually more than the people, I might mean we and the Buddhas. The Buddhas who are in the room. The Buddhas in the room I could also be referred to by the we. And the Buddhas in the room, if you have any ideas or any mental fabrication about the Buddhas in the room, then you won't be able to see the Buddhas in the room. And somebody might say, well, I have no mental fabrications about the Buddhas in the room, and I don't see any Buddhas in the room. And I would say, I think you do have a mental fabrication about the Buddhas in the room, and you don't see any that satisfy your mental fabrication.

[30:46]

That's why you don't see the Buddhas in the room. And we... we wish you would give up your mental fabrications about what Buddhas are, and then you would realize you cannot get away from them. And they can't get away from you. The only way you can get away from something is by mental fabrication. You could also think that. You could think that all the time. Buddhas have no fabricated form. Therefore, you have no way to get away from them. You can't avoid them because they don't have a form. But when you see forms, you have an opportunity to relinquish any attachment to them. you have the opportunity to realize that this form is a... You use the word see. Like, so when you use the word see just now, you're trying to remember that when you use the word see to say a certain thing to us that we will understand a certain way because of certain reasons.

[31:54]

When you see a sentient being... You're trying to remember that that word see is just a word. That would be good. That the word see is just a word and the word sentient being is just a word. The sentient beings which I'm listening to There are no sentient beings. There's only the word. It doesn't mean there's nobody there. It's just there's no sentient beings that the words refer to. There's no reality of them beyond the words. Because the thing I see is I don't see a dependent core rising. I see a lorry. I don't see dependent core rising. There is dependent core rising of you. There is dependent core rising of each of us. We are constantly creation in this particular place and time. But we can't know that except by imputing an image on it and a word and getting a hold of it.

[33:04]

That's how we know it. But again, and it's nice to know stuff, We're addicted to it, so it feeds our addiction. And then we're just told, well, if you remember the pentacle rising, it encourages you more and more to realize virtue. And by realizing virtue, you are more and more open to the pentacle rising, which you don't know. But that's not the whole story. You have to take one step further to realize that there's actually nothing about the way you get a hold of creation in creation. That's the hard part for people. And the dangerous thing is that you think, well, if I say there's nothing in addition to the way I get a hold of you, that there's nothing there. But it's not that there's nothing there. It's just that there's absolutely none of the way you get a hold of things in them.

[34:07]

That's the difference. The way you know things, that way is totally absent in the thing. But that doesn't mean there's nothing there. And that would be dangerous to think that there was nothing there. That's why this teaching is for people who are devoted to sentient beings even though there aren't any. So that when you get to the place where it seems like there aren't any, you'll keep being devoted to them. Even when you can't see any, you'll keep being devoted to them. Even when you realize what? What? that you have no way to know them, that doesn't mean they're not there just because you don't know them anymore. You're still devoted to them. But you have to have this strong vow which doesn't get snuffed out just because you realize that there's no beings that this vow is settled for.

[35:13]

Just like we went to that place before. You get to this place and you forget the reason why you're talking. Well, the reason why you're talking is for these beings who What? Who are inconceivable. The cultivated person cultivates not ignoring an inconceivable process of cause and effect. Short form, cause and effect. The cultivation of cultivated people is to remember that all the time. To remember you're looking at a form which is the result of an infinite, inconceivable, non-dual process. And you're looking is to.

[36:15]

And the reason why you can look, and the reason why you forget, The reason why, the reasons for why you sometimes forget to meditate on dependent and co-arising, why you forget and you do get distracted and you do ignore cause and effect and you say, this isn't cause and effect, this is a thing which is not a causal process and I can get a hold of it and I don't even notice that I'm ignoring cause and effect. Hmm? How does one motivate oneself? One goes like this. I vow from this life on throughout countless lives to hear the true Dharma. I vow to devote my life to the liberation of all beings. I vow to serve all Buddhas and the great work and one does that

[37:16]

Buddhas do it. Bodhisattvas do it. I vow to remember the perfection of wisdom, the lovely, the holy. I vow to recall it in many, many ways. And there's books which I can read, which I do read, which I study with people, which say about all the different ways that enlightening beings recall the perfection of wisdom. And I read those things. That's how I cultivate this aspiration, this vow. And you're cultivating perfection of wisdom. So you get into it. Well, I'm thinking of the perfection of wisdom. What's it like? Well, the perfection of wisdom is like something that nobody knows anything about. That's what it's like. The perfection of wisdom is like just a word. Once you get into it, you get all these shocking new revelations.

[38:21]

How come you get them? Well, because you're devoted to the perfection of wisdom. So you run into all this stuff, which is in the treasure house of non-imaginative wisdom. all these words coming out of the place where all words are broken down to shock you out of holding on to what you imagine as being your life. Charlie? I'm thinking about the phrase, wisdom beyond wisdom. Yeah. I've tolerated that phrase for a number of years, although it seems to... be a cop-out in a way. I wish it would say more. I want to know more of what that means. And I know in a way it's to get me to let go of my ideas of what it means. But could it possibly be, would another translation be wisdom beyond ideas?

[39:28]

Yep. That's just another, that's a synonym. Yeah. And would another synonym be understanding beyond wisdom? Understanding beyond wisdom? Yeah. And understanding beyond understanding. Also we have the expression Buddhas going beyond Buddhas. Living Buddhas go beyond living Buddhas. There's no... The Buddha way is basically leaping. The Buddha way is basically jumping. Am I talking here about standing on the threshold? Can I talk about it in this class? Last session, is it? Yeah. Okay, so now we're back again.

[40:31]

So here you are in giving up all ideas, relieving all suffering, okay? You're at the threshold and right next to you on the threshold is giving up all ideas, relieving all suffering, the perfection of wisdom. But you don't, in this renunciation, in this letting go of all ideas and all attachment and the relief of all affliction thereby, you do not, at that threshold, abandon the world of beings who are holding on and agonizing because they're holding on. You don't lean away from those beings. So you feel the perfection of wisdom stroking this cheek, and you feel the world of agony touching the other cheek.

[41:37]

And if you feel the letting go and the liberation of this cheek, then you let go of that and feel the other cheek. You're in the middle of those two worlds. They meet in your life all the time. And when you're really balanced, you realize, oh, there's nothing to attain. And then I go beyond nothing to attain and go and feel the world where there is something to attain, where you can get something. And what you can get in the world where you can get something is suffering. Because where you can get something, you can have it taken away. But we don't abandon that world. And we're on a path of liberating all beings who are in that world at a given moment. And to show them that their world is non-dual with the world of peace and liberation.

[42:41]

But we don't lean into the world of peace and liberation. We touch it. We attain it. without abandoning the other one. And we don't abandon the other one by touching it. We touch it. We do touch it. That's where we live. We touch both worlds. That's where we all live. But if we don't train ourselves to be upright, we lean one way or the other. And really, we don't lean. Really we are upright in reality because if we weren't upright then we would just be in one of those worlds. Like we would just be in the world of liberation and there would be no suffering people. But we're devoted to suffering people even though there's no suffering people. So we're not leaning into that world. We're here. If we lean into the world of suffering people we don't understand how there could be liberation. We don't lean either way. We touch both.

[43:44]

And when there's Buddha we go beyond it and embrace sentient beings. When they're sentient beings we go beyond them and embrace Buddha. That would be part of the deal. You'd let go of the idea. What's the other part? Is that that was just words. That's the other part. You said when you say that you mean, right? Well, can I interpret it? Which is fine. Going beyond as letting go. You can. And that would be making going beyond into the word letting go. Is this anonymous? It's just a word. You said letting go. I can say yes, but that's just a word. Do you think it's more than a word? I don't necessarily think it's more than a word, but when I'm assigning meaning to that word, I'm trying to decide if there's some... I'm not sure I understand the meaning of going beyond, and I'm trying to see if it's akin to my concept.

[45:01]

The meaning of going beyond is other words. The meaning of going beyond is other words. So if you understand that what you're doing is trying to get other words to get meaning of what going beyond is, and you're not going to find out what going beyond is by this discussion, let's continue. Right. I think I'm somewhat aware of that right now, that we're just talking about words. But given the fact that we're talking about words, is letting go, going beyond, is letting go. I guess when I say going beyond, I imagine something that's esoteric. And I'm trying to decide if there's a more simple explanation for myself, which is just when we realize Buddha, we let go. that might be a more simple explanation, but who you are is inexplicable.

[46:04]

So you can make complicated or simple explanations of you, but the explanations of you are just words. Understanding that opens the door to you, which is, you know, nobody can explain that. But you want to explain it? We've got words to explain it, and then to have meaning, and And then we can learn how to use the words and create meaning and know things with words and watch to see are we becoming enchanted by that or not. and see if we're holding on tighter or looser, and see what happens when you hold looser, see what happens to the knowing and the explanation at that point. Are we leaning over to finding out something and getting away from something?

[47:10]

We can check this out. So I confess to you, I reveal to you that I walk around trying to look at the world through dependent core rising. I try to do that, and I don't know how. And that seems right to me. So I walk around doing a practice that I don't know how to do. I'm devoted to a practice that I can't do. And yet, that's the practice I'm doing. I'm doing a practice that I don't know how to do. And I'm taking care of beings who I don't know. Or you could say, I'm taking care of beings who are dependent core rising. I'm applying the teaching to all of you. I'm devoted to all of you that are dependent core rising, which means I'm devoted to inconceivable you.

[48:12]

But not like I'm looking down on the conceivable you, which is not your fault but mine. So I'm going around making conceptions of you, trying to remember that there's an inconceivable you, too. And I don't know how to do that, the inconceivable part. And I don't even know how I come to do the conceivable part. And I try to remember that. And I don't regret it when I remember it. And people seem to give me some feedback on that. Yes. somebody causing harm to somebody across the street. If I can perfectly see that moment when harm is being done to somebody or somebody's being, I can at that moment perfectly see that, that all three people or everybody is enlightened with that.

[49:26]

So I thought about it, and Kim and I both thought about it, and Kim said to me, well, what happens if someone comes to hit you and you protect me? If somebody came to hurt your granddaughter, would your practice be to see that moment, or would it be to instinctively protect your granddaughter from harm? I don't know. I can hardly wait. I can hardly wait. I love taking care of her. But I told you in the last class, I told you what it's like for me to take care of her, right? You were here, weren't you? Tell me about what it's like when I take care of her. Yeah. Yeah. And then we do all these amazing things, right?

[50:28]

Do you remember some of the amazing things we do? Well, I'll tell you one of them. That's really great. It's the one where let's go over there. And then we start going there. And she says, I don't want to go there. Let's go there. So we turn around and go the other way. And she says, I don't want to go there. Let's go there. We go back and forth like that. And I, what do I realize? I realize the happiness of giving up trying to control her welfare or mine. You can say, well, that's easy because she doesn't say, let's go into the street in front of that truck. But I'm proposing that this attitude can apply to situations that don't seem so innocuous. The teaching is actually the teaching of non-duality. The teaching is we are living in the middle of reality. And reality is that we are friends with each other.

[51:28]

That's reality. Reality is the good thing. Reality is happiness. The world of delusion is war and hatred and cruelty. Right? People say that's real. Okay, if you say that's real, fine. If that's what you call real, I don't want reality. I want a reality where we're friends. And the Buddhas teach Buddhists say, I live in a place where we're all friends, where we're at peace with each other, where you're helping me and I'm helping you. And a lot of people say, well, I can see the Buddha's helping me, but I can't see I'm helping the Buddha. Well, yeah, the Buddha would say, yes, you do not see that. But I see that you're helping me, and I see that I'm helping you, and I see that you're helping each other, and I'm very happy to see this, and I would like you to see this, because if you could see this, you could help the other people who don't see it.

[52:29]

And then when they insult you and attack you, you could show them how they're helping you. I was attracted to Zen because I wanted to be able to see how people who were attacking me were helping me and people who were not attacking me were helping me. and respond basically, thank you very much to both. And not a little bit more to the people who were attacking me than the people who were nice to me or vice versa. Basically, it's the same. I wanted to see that because I didn't see it. And I had a feeling that if I could see that, that would be like a good thing to see before I finish this one. How's it going? It's going really well. I mean, I've made a tiny bit of progress in this, and I'm happy that I made a tiny bit. I'm a tiny bit easier for people to attack than I used to be.

[53:40]

I'm a tiny bit more open to being insulted and degraded and hated than I used to be. And that's what I came to learn. I also am a tiny bit less pushed around by praise. Praise. Adulation. I'm a tiny bit less pushed around by people adoring me and hating me. And that's what I came to learn. And that's what I want to continue to learn. And I think if I can learn that, I can share that with people. And if we all can do this, we will enter Buddha's realization. And if anybody doesn't get this, we can patiently show them how to get it. But I'm not saying I can always do it. If you throw me in the middle of a war, I might tense up. If you start pulling some of my organs out of me, I might stiffen up and say, you know, and not be, not say, please, please wait a minute, you know, just a second.

[54:48]

Don't pull so hard. But I'm working on it, right? Like I told you all this story, I have another bunch of grandchildren in Minnesota, right? And they come and play with me. And they stick their hands in my mouth. You know that part? You know that one? No, you don't? You want to hear it? So they stick their hand in my mouth. And I say, you can put your hand in my mouth, but I want you to wash it. Your hands are really paste bad. They're covered with all kinds of Bad tasting, I don't know what. Go wash them. So then they go wash them and they come back and they stick the hands in again. I say, you didn't wash enough. Try again. So then they go wash them again. They come back and they put them in. I say, now they're clean. You can play around as much as you want. I see the practice is not to pretend like they don't have dirty hands. The practice is, let's find ways to play more intimately.

[55:50]

and say what we need in a friendly way, not to control, because we can't, but to realize creativity together, to realize dependent core rising, to realize the inconceivable by the way we play with the conceivable. What if they didn't go wash their hands? Well, that would be, you know, I'd cross that bridge. What if she wants to go in the street rather than just go to the park? My grandson, you know, he used to live in Chinatown. Little boy, he wants to go in the street, busy streets in Chinatown. I don't want him to go in the street. So I'm trying to find some way to stop him from going in the streets, to protect him from the streets without like overpowering him. And, you know, I just couldn't find it. And afterwards I realized, I should have just gone in the street with him.

[56:52]

Huh? Yeah, or laid down in the street. But anyway, I can go in the street and he can come with me. We can go in the street together and he can learn about the street. I can have their hands in my mouth, but they should know that their hands taste bad. So it's like, get in there. Listen to the cries of the world. Observe all living beings with eyes of compassion. If you get in there, and just now when I made that suggestion of get in there, I leaned. Without leaning. Avalokiteshvara listens to the cries of the world, but she doesn't lean into the world. She stays upright and serene, even though she listens to the most horrible and threatening stuff. and the most enticing and lovely stuff. She listens to it all. She doesn't lean away from happiness, from cries of joy, from orgasm. She doesn't lean away from that. She doesn't lean into it. She listens to it. So I said get into it, which means listen to it all, and listen to it all without sticking your nose in it or leaning into it.

[58:06]

Be upright with it, and when you're upright with all of it, which includes tasting the hands in your mouth and saying how you feel about that and making requests and expressing your needs. That's part of what you say when you listen. Then you also hear the other side. It's right there. But don't lean into that either. Treat them both thoroughly, courageously. This is training in perfect wisdom. The bodhisattva... of great compassion is the one in the Heart Sutra who teaches, this wisdom liberates all suffering. And, you know, I'm offering a weekend at Mount Madonna and I looked at the brochure and there's women on both sides of me. All the people that are offering retreats are, everybody is

[59:09]

women on both sides of me, all these pictures, and they're all in color, and my picture's in black and white. And all these different workshops are offering various things, and the workshop I'm offering is called, Freedom from Suffering. And I thought all their workshops are really like totally like the mandala around that freedom from suffering. The Buddha sometimes is quite colorful and almost witty, perhaps. But the point is to liberate beings from suffering so that they can liberate beings from suffering. And all these different methods are fine. So this class is focusing on the turning point, the going beyond wisdom, the going beyond ideas of good and bad. But not ignoring good and bad, realizing that if you practice, if you see evil, and you contemplate the dependent core rising of evil, even though you can't see it with your eyes, if you contemplate doing evil by seeing it as dependent core rising, there will be no doing of evil.

[60:25]

If you can see the dependent core rising, not just your idea, but the inconceivable realm of dependent core rising, when you see cruelty, there will be no cruelty. And there is already no cruelty in that vision. And so you go into that vision and you say, oh, now I see what they mean. Now I understand what those Buddhas were talking about. And then go beyond that and come back and look again at the appearance of evil. And then again, when you see evil, look at it with eyes of compassion and see its Dependent Core rising. And in that vision there's Dharma. Not, not, not Dharma. There's the relief of wrongdoing. There's the doing of good in always meditating on

[61:30]

to Pentecost Rising when you see, for example, the form of evil. But again, we often flinch when somebody puts the evil thing in front of our face. We go, what was I supposed to be meditating on again? Oh yeah, right. This is the unfoldment of the universe right now in the form of evil. And the evil is disarmed in that vision. That's the proposal. Evil is not established and good is established by realizing that good is the same as evil in that good is also dependent co-arising. If you see good and you don't meditate on it as dependent co-arising, good is not established. If you see good and you meditate on dependent co-arising, good is established. If you see evil and don't depend upon it, don't meditate on it as dependent core arising, then evil seems to be established.

[62:40]

When you see the truth of it, it's not. The trick, the challenge is to not ignore that we're always looking at creation through our story about it. We're always looking at creation through the way we know it, through the way we talk about it. If you remember that, you're opening yourself to meditate on cause and effect beyond your idea of it. But it's not like beyond your idea of it is another idea of it, which is it. However, there can be ideas about it, one after another, but they're all basically the same level. They're the level we know causation. Well, thank you very much. This class has been very good for me. And so I won't be doing a class at the yoga room until November.

[63:43]

I hope you can come. And in between now, I hope that we all meditate on Buddha's teaching that everything that exists is dependent core arising, is a dependent core arising. And if you get distracted, confess it. and say you're sorry before the Buddhas and try again. It's normal to not have a conceivable way to get a hold of meditating on the inconceivable Dharma. That's normal. We have to get used to that if we want to realize the liberation of all beings. Now everybody understands.

[64:37]

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